History Analysis / PonyPOVSeries

7th Sep '17 10:16:36 PM One-Eyed-Stranger
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!!! In [[spoiler:Diamond's]] case.

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!!! In [[spoiler:Diamond's]] [[spoiler:Diamond Tiara's]] case.
7th Sep '17 10:13:35 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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While it's obvious that his family will punish him for everything, he has been given a chance by Celestia to live peacefully around them, which he doesn't seem to want to take. And thing is, I believe Discord is a [[It'sAllAboutMe selfish]] [[Understatement bastard]] to put it lightly, so I don't think he would prioritize other's happiness over his own, however I'm pretty sure he still remembers his time as Dissy, and he was happy then. With that in mind, I think he doesn't have any faith in the prospect of him being happy with being friends with the princesses, hence why he keeps on his cruelties (besides the power trip obviously); he uses to reaffirm to himself that:

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While it's obvious that his family will punish him for everything, he has been given a chance by Celestia to live peacefully around them, which he doesn't seem to want to take. And thing is, I believe Discord is a [[It'sAllAboutMe selfish]] [[Understatement [[ItsAllAboutMe selfish bastard]] to put it lightly, so I don't think he would prioritize other's happiness over his own, however I'm pretty sure he still remembers his time as Dissy, and he was happy then. With that in mind, I think he doesn't have any faith in the prospect of him being happy with being friends with the princesses, hence why he keeps on his cruelties (besides the power trip obviously); he uses to reaffirm to himself that:
7th Sep '17 10:12:09 PM One-Eyed-Stranger
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----

to:

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[[WMG: Discord's and his "daughter" coping mechanisms and a reason why they find being forgiven offensive.]]

WARNING: '''Spoilers'''. Also, I'm not necessarily right about any of this.

It started in The Last Battle arc, when Discord and [[spoiler:Diamond Tiara]] responded in anger with to being forgiven: "" Which raised the question: [[RedemptionRejection Why do they find being forgiven so offensive?]] I mean, most people who feel guilty generally speaking feel relieved that they've been forgiven. So, the question "Well, what was it?" kind of spilled over into trying to understand what each of them are coping with.

!!! In Discord's case.

While it's obvious that his family will punish him for everything, he has been given a chance by Celestia to live peacefully around them, which he doesn't seem to want to take. And thing is, I believe Discord is a [[It'sAllAboutMe selfish]] [[Understatement bastard]] to put it lightly, so I don't think he would prioritize other's happiness over his own, however I'm pretty sure he still remembers his time as Dissy, and he was happy then. With that in mind, I think he doesn't have any faith in the prospect of him being happy with being friends with the princesses, hence why he keeps on his cruelties (besides the power trip obviously); he uses to reaffirm to himself that:

A). He's happy being a bastard (remember the power trip?), destroying any doubts in the process.

B). That him being happy, in a situation where he is friends with the princesses, is at best wishful thinking and at worst a delusion, so he can ignore the possibility by trying to ensure it never rises back from its ashes, justifying a lack of change and quenching any fears.

C). He doesn't have to deal with the "slight" just "slight" possibility that he's been a dick all this time. After all, if being good is futile, then he doesn't have to fear the possibility that he could all this time, and so, in his head, he never wasted a chance at happiness, avoiding guilt, squashing his fears, erasing his doubts through denial.

Which leads me to the reason I think he finds being forgiven offensive: When they tell him; "I forgive you", he's not hearing; "Dude, I don't want your life to get worse, and I don't want to keep on fighting/punishing you forever, I want us both to get the best deal we can, so would you let me do that? Please.", instead he's hearing; "Dude, don't bother trying to be happy. I never liked you for who you are and I never will. So you do what I want! What you want doesn't matter anyway!" (Yes, I realize that the only way for what he's hearing to be a reality is when the context gets ignored. Though, I'd chalk that one up to cognitive distortions.)

!!! In [[spoiler:Diamond's]] case.

She HATES herself, she thinks she's poison to everything and everyone she touches, yet she wants to stop her mother from becoming the universe's [[HateSink hate sink]], and has more than once looked after other versions of herself, and this is despite the fact that she doesn't believe in self-determinism.

Well, you know, when you don't actually have a choice, you don't have to feel responsible for what you do or don't do: [[NeverMyFault "I made the CMC hate me! Well, I didn't have a choice", "I nearly killed my best friend! Well, I didn't have a choice", "I caused the apocalypse! Well, I didn't have a choice", so on and so forth,]] [[SubvertedTrope which actually isn't her coping mechanism: Her coping mechanism is her defiance of that,]] which leads to her self-hatred being re-affirmed in contradiction to [[PetTheDog her kinder actions]].

Since her excuse for not even considering her mother's input to the point where it looks more like what she wants to do, rather than what her mother wants her to do, is that remaining the hate sink keeps her mother from becoming the [[HateSink Hate Sink]], but at the same time it doesn't make neither her or her mother happy, and in fact it just reaffirms her reasons to hate herself, she finds herself in a position where:

A). She can stave off from feeling like she destroyed and lost her one chance at happiness, and have the perfect excuse to stay away from the people whose presence invokes those feelings by reaffirming her "evilness" (read: self-hatred). After all, if she always was what she says she is, then the chance never existed in the first place, Or if it's now gone forever, then she has no incentive to provoke a change of behavior or to let her doubt herself.

B). She can find a reason to keep on going by trying to save her mother from becoming the [[HateSink Hate Sink]], while simultaneously relieving herself from her misplaced guilt over driving her mother over the edge.

C). She gets to turn the "I don't have a choice" rhetoric into a choice in and of itself, hence why not having a choice doesn't seem to bother her.

D). She can ignore the possibility that if she keeps this on, her beliefs about herself and her life will soon become reality unless she drops it, (the only reason it hasn't happened already is because the CMC+1 haven't given up on her).

So back to the original question: Why does she find being forgiven offensive? Well, I think she's hearing the following whenever they tell her that she's been forgiven: "Oh don't bother saving your mother, she's not worth the effort! And you ARE the reason you don't have a choice to be happy to begin with! By the way, your misery makes your mother miserable!" (I know they never implied any of that, this how I imagine it sounds to her like, because she knows her situation better than they do, so she knows what it implies and they don't.) Which makes it harder for her to keep coping.

Both of them are coping with squandered chances at being happy, or more specifically the fear, doubt and guilt that comes with losing said chances. The difference between them is that one doesn't believe it will do him any good, the other believes it's not there anymore. One acts in the name of preserving his own happiness (and that's getting increasingly difficult thanks to Diamond), the other acts in the name of preserving everyone else's happiness at her own expense to a rather unhealthy degree and misguidedly at that. Both of them have a degree of denial about the better options, and in-short, their cynicism is keeping them both unhappy.
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16th Oct '16 1:56:00 PM Monolaf317
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[[foldercontrol]]



Discord loved causing misery and suffering to the whole planet but did in a very random, not specific way. He never targeted a single race or country and allowed the majority to at least have free will. After centuries of his rule, ponies began to adapt to his chaos and unless you were unlucky enough to be personally visited by Discord or the Chaos 6, the chaos became an inconvenience to most ponies. However, in the beginning of his rule, Discord killed thousands of people until he had to restraint himself, for fear of destroying all his toys. But if Nightmare Eclipse didn't intervene, Discord would have probably gotten bored with Equestrian (after few thousand years, give or take) and moved to another planet/world/whatever. Leaving Equestrian alone and peace or possibly inherited by the Valeyard (which would probably be even worse).

to:

Discord loved causing misery and suffering to the whole planet but did in a very random, not specific way. He never targeted a single race or country and allowed the majority to at least have free will. After centuries of his rule, ponies began to adapt to his chaos and unless you were unlucky enough to be personally visited by Discord or the Chaos 6, the chaos became an inconvenience to most ponies. However, in the beginning of his rule, Discord killed thousands of people until he had to restraint himself, for fear of destroying all his toys. But if Nightmare Eclipse didn't intervene, Discord would have probably gotten bored with Equestrian (after few thousand years, give or take) and moved to another planet/world/whatever. Leaving Equestrian alone and peace or possibly inherited by the Valeyard (which would probably be even worse).worse).
----
24th Sep '16 4:49:01 PM nombretomado
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And of course, there's the idea proposed by CSLewis that by doing away with a virtuous code, we pick one virtue and raise it above the others as alternate forms of morality. This by definition is what Nightmares are: taking one idea, and raising it above the rest.

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And of course, there's the idea proposed by CSLewis Creator/CSLewis that by doing away with a virtuous code, we pick one virtue and raise it above the others as alternate forms of morality. This by definition is what Nightmares are: taking one idea, and raising it above the rest.
1st May '16 7:28:03 PM Love777
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Twilight Sparkle had her DarkestHour when her friends abandoned her against Discord, and thus thought she wouldn't need to deal with her element being compromised after the fact. (Her element being the Magic of Friendship) While Lesson Zero showed that she still needed some therapy to help with her compulsion for order, her real challenge was on deciding whether other ponies could learn about friendship. But it was more than that. [[spoiler: During the crisis, she was confronted with the possibility of her friends [[CharacterDevelopment changing from their original selves]], and she tensely watched as each of her friends slowly grew to be something different from what they originally were.]] This lead up to her greatest challenges in being confronted with the problems of Trixie and Fluttershy. Somehow, simple magic couldn't overcome Trixie's problems, and Twilight felt responsible to help trixie through her problems. In her work helping Trixie's Case study, Twilight got to understand the importance of Friendship by seeing a pony like herself. It also lead to a surprise [[spoiler: because Trixie had her own unique element of magic as well]]. In taking on the role of teacher, she grows more free in beginning to grow [[spoiler: towards the role [[FutureBadass she might be destined to reach (according to Applejack's visions)]]. Yet perhaps her most important friendship lesson was learned in her confrontation with Fluttershy over her LoadBearingHero shadow form. It was a lesson on the nature of suffering, and how friendship is in the now, and that it can and will last as long that others try to maintain it, perhaps the essence of all her lessons put into one epiphany, and accepting this reality is what finally allowed Twilight to admit her new freedom]].

to:

Twilight Sparkle had her DarkestHour when her friends abandoned her against Discord, and thus thought she wouldn't need to deal with her element being compromised after the fact. (Her element being the Magic of Friendship) While Lesson Zero showed that she still needed some therapy to help with her compulsion for order, her real challenge was on deciding whether other ponies could learn about friendship. But it was more than that. [[spoiler: During the crisis, she was confronted with the possibility of her friends [[CharacterDevelopment changing from their original selves]], and she tensely watched as each of her friends slowly grew to be something different from what they originally were.]] This lead up to her greatest challenges in being confronted with the problems of Trixie and Fluttershy. Somehow, simple magic couldn't overcome Trixie's problems, and Twilight felt responsible to help trixie Trixie through her problems. In her work helping Trixie's Case study, Twilight got to understand the importance of Friendship by seeing a pony like herself. It also lead to a surprise [[spoiler: because Trixie had her own unique element of magic as well]]. In taking on the role of teacher, she grows more free in beginning to grow [[spoiler: towards the role [[FutureBadass she might be destined to reach (according to Applejack's visions)]]. Yet perhaps her most important friendship lesson was learned in her confrontation with Fluttershy over her LoadBearingHero shadow form. It was a lesson on the nature of suffering, and how friendship is in the now, and that it can and will last as long that others try to maintain it, perhaps the essence of all her lessons put into one epiphany, and accepting this reality is what finally allowed Twilight to admit her new freedom]].



The question of forgiveness is also constantly over the story, with the questions of fluttercruel, diamond tiara, silver spoon, and Trixie all begging the question: "Who deserves forgiveness, and how easily should they get it?"

to:

The question of forgiveness is also constantly over the story, with the questions of fluttercruel, diamond tiara, silver spoon, Fluttercruel, Diamond Tiara, Silver Spoon, and Trixie all begging the question: "Who deserves forgiveness, and how easily should they get it?"



Discord loved causing misery and suffering to the whole planet but did in a very random, not specific way. He never targeted a single race or country and allowed the majority to at least have free will. After centuries of his rule, ponies began to adapt to his chaos and unless you were unlucky enough to be personally visited by Discord or the Chaos 6, the chaos became an inconvenience to most ponies. However, in the beginning of his rule, Discord killed thousands of people until he had to restraint himself, for fear of destroying all his toys. But if Nightmare Eclipse didn't intervene, Discord would have probably gotten bored with Equestrian (after few thousand years, give or take) and moved to another planet/world/whatever. Leaving Equestrian alone and peace or possibly inherited by the Varyard (which would probably be even worse).

to:

Discord loved causing misery and suffering to the whole planet but did in a very random, not specific way. He never targeted a single race or country and allowed the majority to at least have free will. After centuries of his rule, ponies began to adapt to his chaos and unless you were unlucky enough to be personally visited by Discord or the Chaos 6, the chaos became an inconvenience to most ponies. However, in the beginning of his rule, Discord killed thousands of people until he had to restraint himself, for fear of destroying all his toys. But if Nightmare Eclipse didn't intervene, Discord would have probably gotten bored with Equestrian (after few thousand years, give or take) and moved to another planet/world/whatever. Leaving Equestrian alone and peace or possibly inherited by the Varyard Valeyard (which would probably be even worse).
19th Dec '15 1:41:45 PM Morgenthaler
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Fluttercruel, her shadow self, meanwhile skulked in darkness, seeking to get out and make Fluttershy cruel. Once it happened though, Fluttercruel was confronted by the reality that no matter what, she'd always start as Fluttershy's copy. Trying to teach fluttershy about reality almost sent "cruel" to oblivion without truly teaching Fluttershy what needed to be learned. Yet as TheDeterminator, [[spoiler: Fluttercruel freed herself from oblivion [[LikeABadassOutOfHell like a hero from darkness]]. Staring down Nightmare Whisper withe the lesson of being CruelToBeKind, "cruel" earned her cutie mark from protecting the other elements of harmony from destruction, and from this radiated the true element of Kindness: helping those who can't help themselves. Though 'Cruel thought this would be her RedemptionEqualsDeath, Fluttershy brought her back, saying that [[ClonesArePeopleToo she was her own pony]], and that though they would still share a body, Fluttercruel had earned her cutie mark, and that made her real to them. Cruel was so grateful, she resolved to help "shy" for the rest of her life, finally free from her fear and loathing, ready to help in the reality of life.]]

to:

Fluttercruel, her shadow self, meanwhile skulked in darkness, seeking to get out and make Fluttershy cruel. Once it happened though, Fluttercruel was confronted by the reality that no matter what, she'd always start as Fluttershy's copy. Trying to teach fluttershy about reality almost sent "cruel" to oblivion without truly teaching Fluttershy what needed to be learned. Yet as TheDeterminator, [[spoiler: Fluttercruel freed herself from oblivion [[LikeABadassOutOfHell like a hero from darkness]].darkness. Staring down Nightmare Whisper withe the lesson of being CruelToBeKind, "cruel" earned her cutie mark from protecting the other elements of harmony from destruction, and from this radiated the true element of Kindness: helping those who can't help themselves. Though 'Cruel thought this would be her RedemptionEqualsDeath, Fluttershy brought her back, saying that [[ClonesArePeopleToo she was her own pony]], and that though they would still share a body, Fluttercruel had earned her cutie mark, and that made her real to them. Cruel was so grateful, she resolved to help "shy" for the rest of her life, finally free from her fear and loathing, ready to help in the reality of life.]]
20th Jun '15 4:08:09 PM Love777
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Zecora learned to be willing to enter into the life of others in ponyville, and eventually accept help when needed. She even wrote a whole letter in rhyme to tell celestia all about it.

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Zecora learned to be willing to enter into the life of others in ponyville, Ponyville, and eventually accept help when needed. She even wrote a whole letter in rhyme to tell celestia Celestia all about it.



This can be extended far beyond the dark world too, as many, many ponies have to deal with this problem. The first one probably being Rainbow Dash and coming to terms with her betrayal of the elements. Or Pinkie Pie needing to come to terms with who she was and how it affects who she is now. Or much darker, Diamond Tiara wanting her mother back, when the way she'd get her back is repulsive and awful. Interestingly enough, this idea while still wholly embraced, is dealt with in a balanced way, as celestia in talking to Rainbow Dash about her confessing to Cloudsdale that pretending that something bad never happened can be as bad as tourturing yourself, as it is one way you can separate your heart from others, but that it is still something an individual must make on their own.

to:

This can be extended far beyond the dark world too, as many, many ponies have to deal with this problem. The first one probably being Rainbow Dash and coming to terms with her betrayal of the elements. Or Pinkie Pie needing to come to terms with who she was and how it affects who she is now. Or much darker, Diamond Tiara wanting her mother back, when the way she'd get her back is repulsive and awful. Interestingly enough, this idea while still wholly embraced, is dealt with in a balanced way, as celestia Celestia in talking to Rainbow Dash about her confessing to Cloudsdale that pretending that something bad never happened can be as bad as tourturing yourself, as it is one way you can separate your heart from others, but that it is still something an individual must make on their own.



From the short peek, the cattle are all semi-mindless (capable of giving love and working). Otherwise how else would Changelings eat and take care of the land? Sweetie Belle at least seems like a fair ruler and Discord seems trapped forever. Hard to say what the cattle feels about this new lifestyle but most Changelings probably love being free to roam the land, and not hide their true selves to the public. On the other hand, Celestial and Luna and some other non-evil deities are trapped in a fate worse then death.

to:

From the short peek, the cattle are all semi-mindless (capable of giving love and working). Otherwise how else would Changelings eat and take care of the land? Sweetie Belle at least seems like a fair ruler and Discord seems trapped forever. Hard to say what the cattle feels about this new lifestyle but most Changelings probably love being free to roam the land, and not hide their true selves to the public. On the other hand, Celestial Celestia and Luna and some other non-evil deities are trapped in a fate worse then death.
9th Jun '15 9:24:13 PM Love777
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[[WMG: the reharmonized series and the importance of facing reality]]

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[[WMG: the reharmonized series The Reharmonized Series and the importance The Importance of facing reality]]Facing Reality]]



Twilight Sparkle had her DarkestHour when her friends abandoned her against Discord, and thus thought she wouldn't need to deal with her element being compromised after the fact. (Her element being the Magic of Friendship) While Lesson Zero showed that she still needed some therapy to help with her compulsion for order, her real challenge was on deciding whether other ponies could learn about friendship. But it was more than that. [[spoiler: During the crisis, she was confronted with the possibility of her friends [[CharacterDevelopment changing from their original selves]], and she tensely watched as each of her friends slowly grew to be something different from what they originally were.]] This lead up to her greatest challenges in being confronted with the problems of Trixie and Fluttershy. Somehow, simple magic couldn't overcome Trixie's problems, and Twilight felt responsible to help trixie through her problems. In her work helping Trixie's Case study, Twilight got to understand the importance of Friendship by seeing a pony like herself. It also lead to a surprise [[spoiler: because Trixie had her own unique element of magic as well]]. In taking on the role of teacher, she grows more free in beginning to grow [[spoiler: towards the role [[FutureBadass she might be destined to reach (according to Applejack's visions)]]. Yet perhaps her most important friendship lesson was learned in her confrontation with Fluttershy over her LoadBearingHero shadow for. It was a lesson on the nature of suffering, and how friendship is in the now, and that it can and will last as long that others try to maintain it, perhaps the essence of all her lessons put into one epiphany, and accepting this reality is what finally allowed Twilight to admit her new freedom]].

to:

Twilight Sparkle had her DarkestHour when her friends abandoned her against Discord, and thus thought she wouldn't need to deal with her element being compromised after the fact. (Her element being the Magic of Friendship) While Lesson Zero showed that she still needed some therapy to help with her compulsion for order, her real challenge was on deciding whether other ponies could learn about friendship. But it was more than that. [[spoiler: During the crisis, she was confronted with the possibility of her friends [[CharacterDevelopment changing from their original selves]], and she tensely watched as each of her friends slowly grew to be something different from what they originally were.]] This lead up to her greatest challenges in being confronted with the problems of Trixie and Fluttershy. Somehow, simple magic couldn't overcome Trixie's problems, and Twilight felt responsible to help trixie through her problems. In her work helping Trixie's Case study, Twilight got to understand the importance of Friendship by seeing a pony like herself. It also lead to a surprise [[spoiler: because Trixie had her own unique element of magic as well]]. In taking on the role of teacher, she grows more free in beginning to grow [[spoiler: towards the role [[FutureBadass she might be destined to reach (according to Applejack's visions)]]. Yet perhaps her most important friendship lesson was learned in her confrontation with Fluttershy over her LoadBearingHero shadow for.form. It was a lesson on the nature of suffering, and how friendship is in the now, and that it can and will last as long that others try to maintain it, perhaps the essence of all her lessons put into one epiphany, and accepting this reality is what finally allowed Twilight to admit her new freedom]].
25th Oct '14 3:52:33 PM iml908
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to:

** A 7th Element is confirmed in a potential future story. [[spoiler: It's Sunset Shimmer.]]
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