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History Analysis / FireAndBrimstoneHell

3rd May '15 10:30:47 PM nombretomado
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There is also the question of how "literal" Revelation is supposed to be interpreted anyway. Annihilationists believe that eternal punishment would instantly mean that GodIsEvil. The "lake of fire and sulfur" is not literal, but instead [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic figurative or symbolic]]. It represents [[KilledOffForReal eternal destruction]] and those sent there are [[DeaderThanDead completely obliterated]]. The only thing that lasts for eternity is the fire itself, and humans are not inherently immortal. After all, [[WordOfGod God Himself said to Adam and his sons that sinners will be returned to dust or destroyed, not given the Fruit of Life.]] They also argued that this was the stance of the original Jews who used the metaphor of the real-life garbage incinerator "Gehenna" to signify a place where sinners are annihilated forever. The concept of Eternal Punishment originated from Tartarus in ClassicalMythology, but it was only reserved for the most vile of Complete Monsters. However, the concept of Gehenna gave an excuse for Tartarus to be adopted by the [[CorruptChurch exceedingly-corrupt]] Catholic Church who modified the concept to include all non-Christians, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide illegal.

to:

There is also the question of how "literal" Revelation is supposed to be interpreted anyway. Annihilationists believe that eternal punishment would instantly mean that GodIsEvil. The "lake of fire and sulfur" is not literal, but instead [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic figurative or symbolic]]. It represents [[KilledOffForReal eternal destruction]] and those sent there are [[DeaderThanDead completely obliterated]]. The only thing that lasts for eternity is the fire itself, and humans are not inherently immortal. After all, [[WordOfGod God Himself said to Adam and his sons that sinners will be returned to dust or destroyed, not given the Fruit of Life.]] They also argued that this was the stance of the original Jews who used the metaphor of the real-life garbage incinerator "Gehenna" to signify a place where sinners are annihilated forever. The concept of Eternal Punishment originated from Tartarus in ClassicalMythology, Myth/ClassicalMythology, but it was only reserved for the most vile of Complete Monsters. However, the concept of Gehenna gave an excuse for Tartarus to be adopted by the [[CorruptChurch exceedingly-corrupt]] Catholic Church who modified the concept to include all non-Christians, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make suicide illegal.
23rd Mar '14 9:22:17 AM shiro_okami
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Note that the first and third passages DO mention damned humans. However, none of these passages say anything about being underground or demons doing the tormenting. In addition, Revelation is generally viewed to take place in the FUTURE, which some interpret meaning there isn't a "lake of fire" NOW, or at least nobody is in it yet.

to:

Note that the first and third passages DO mention damned humans. However, none of these passages say anything about being underground or demons doing the tormenting. In addition, Revelation is generally viewed to take place in the FUTURE, which some interpret meaning there isn't a "lake of fire" NOW, or at least nobody is in it yet.
yet.

As for the third and fourth passages, does the "tormented day and night forever and ever" really refer to eternal torture? While the Devil is a living entity, the wild beast and false prophet are not. They are symbols, and symbols cannot be tortured. Neither is the "lake of fire" an actual place. Additionally, death itself is obviously not a living entity, but a state of being. How can you torture death? To say that the verse means that the Devil will be literally tortured would also mean that symbols and death itself can also be tortured. The word translated as "torture" is [[http://lsj.translatum.gr/wiki/%CE%B2%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%AF%CE%B6%CF%89 basanizo]]; while that translation is probably more common now, in ''ancient'' Greek, the ''primary'' translation referred to "testing/proving (on a touchstone)" or "examine closely", which would refer to testing and God's and Satan's rival claims to sovereignty as set out in Eden as told in Genesis chapter 3 against each other and finally resolving the issue, also setting a precedent on the issue and the prevention of another issue like it from ever arising. Thus the Satan will have been 'proved wrong' "day and night, forever and ever."
20th Sep '13 6:26:03 PM memememememe
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There is also the question of how "literal" Revelation is supposed to be interpreted anyway. Annihilationists believe that eternal punishment would instantly mean that GodIsEvil. The "lake of fire and sulfur" is not literal, but instead [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic figurative or symbolic]]. It represents [[KilledOffForReal eternal destruction]] and those sent there are [[DeaderThanDead completely obliterated]]. The only thing that lasts for eternity is the fire itself, and humans are not inherently immortal. After all, [[WordOfGod God Himself said to Adam and his sons that sinners will be returned to dust or destroyed, not given the Fruit of Life.]] On the other hand, the Devil (not human), the beast (usually seen as the Antichrist, humanity debatable), and the false prophet (usually interpreted as human) are said to be tormented forever therein, so make of it what you will.

to:

There is also the question of how "literal" Revelation is supposed to be interpreted anyway. Annihilationists believe that eternal punishment would instantly mean that GodIsEvil. The "lake of fire and sulfur" is not literal, but instead [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic figurative or symbolic]]. It represents [[KilledOffForReal eternal destruction]] and those sent there are [[DeaderThanDead completely obliterated]]. The only thing that lasts for eternity is the fire itself, and humans are not inherently immortal. After all, [[WordOfGod God Himself said to Adam and his sons that sinners will be returned to dust or destroyed, not given the Fruit of Life.]] On They also argued that this was the other hand, stance of the Devil (not human), original Jews who used the beast (usually seen as metaphor of the Antichrist, humanity debatable), and real-life garbage incinerator "Gehenna" to signify a place where sinners are annihilated forever. The concept of Eternal Punishment originated from Tartarus in ClassicalMythology, but it was only reserved for the false prophet (usually interpreted as human) are said most vile of Complete Monsters. However, the concept of Gehenna gave an excuse for Tartarus to be tormented forever therein, so adopted by the [[CorruptChurch exceedingly-corrupt]] Catholic Church who modified the concept to include all non-Christians, in order to strike totalitarian fear into its subjects and to give an excuse to make of it what you will.suicide illegal.
20th Sep '13 6:20:03 PM memememememe
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Note that the first and third passages DO mention damned humans. However, none of these passages say anything about being underground or demons doing the tormenting. In addition, Revelation is generally viewed to take place in the FUTURE, which some interpret meaning there isn't a "lake of fire" NOW, or at least nobody is in it yet. There is also the question of how "literal" Revelation is supposed to be interpreted anyway. Annihilationists believe that the torment of the "lake of fire and sulfur" is not literal, but instead [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic figurative or symbolic]]; the "lake of fire and sulfur" represents [[KilledOffForReal eternal destruction]] and those sent there are [[DeaderThanDead completely obliterated]], since eternal punishment would instantly mean that GodIsEvil. On the other hand, the Devil (not human), the beast (usually seen as the Antichrist, humanity debatable), and the false prophet (usually interpreted as human) are said to be tormented forever therein, so make of it what you will.

to:

Note that the first and third passages DO mention damned humans. However, none of these passages say anything about being underground or demons doing the tormenting. In addition, Revelation is generally viewed to take place in the FUTURE, which some interpret meaning there isn't a "lake of fire" NOW, or at least nobody is in it yet. There is also the question of how "literal" Revelation is supposed to be interpreted anyway. Annihilationists believe that the torment of the "lake of fire and sulfur" is not literal, but instead [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic figurative or symbolic]]; the "lake of fire and sulfur" represents [[KilledOffForReal eternal destruction]] and those sent there are [[DeaderThanDead completely obliterated]], since eternal punishment would instantly mean that GodIsEvil. On the other hand, the Devil (not human), the beast (usually seen as the Antichrist, humanity debatable), and the false prophet (usually interpreted as human) are said to be tormented forever therein, so make of it what you will.\n


Added DiffLines:


There is also the question of how "literal" Revelation is supposed to be interpreted anyway. Annihilationists believe that eternal punishment would instantly mean that GodIsEvil. The "lake of fire and sulfur" is not literal, but instead [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic figurative or symbolic]]. It represents [[KilledOffForReal eternal destruction]] and those sent there are [[DeaderThanDead completely obliterated]]. The only thing that lasts for eternity is the fire itself, and humans are not inherently immortal. After all, [[WordOfGod God Himself said to Adam and his sons that sinners will be returned to dust or destroyed, not given the Fruit of Life.]] On the other hand, the Devil (not human), the beast (usually seen as the Antichrist, humanity debatable), and the false prophet (usually interpreted as human) are said to be tormented forever therein, so make of it what you will.
2nd Aug '13 10:54:00 AM Cider
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The concept of FireAndBrimstoneHell comes from a distinction LostInTranslation. The word "Hell" is used as a translation for four words used in the initial writing of ''Literature/TheBible'' in its original languages: ''Sheol'', ''Hades'', ''Tartarus'', and ''Gehenna''. ''Sheol'' is a Hebrew word and ''Hades'' is Greek; both mean the same thing, the abode of the dead for all humans, whether good or bad, at least until Armageddon, and used in conjunction with Ecclesiastes 9:5 would refer to CessationOfExistence. ''Hades'' is mentioned as a place of torment only once: in Luke 16:19-31, Jesus tells a story about a rich man who died and went there (however, this was a parable, so whether he meant it literally is up for debate). ''Tartarus'' is used only once:

to:

The concept of FireAndBrimstoneHell comes from a distinction LostInTranslation. The word "Hell" is used as a translation for four words used in the initial writing of ''Literature/TheBible'' in its original languages: ''Sheol'', ''Hades'', ''Tartarus'', and ''Gehenna''. ''Sheol'' is a Hebrew word and ''Hades'' is Greek; both mean the same thing, the abode of the dead for all humans, whether good or bad, at least until Armageddon, the end of days, and used in conjunction with Ecclesiastes 9:5 would refer to CessationOfExistence. ''Hades'' is mentioned as a place of torment only once: in Luke 16:19-31, Jesus tells a story about a rich man who died and went there (however, this was a parable, so whether he meant it literally is up for debate). ''Tartarus'' is used only once:
9th Sep '12 7:36:10 AM RichardX1
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Note that the first and third passages DO mention damned humans. However, none of these passages say anything about being underground or demons doing the tormenting. In addition, Revelation is generally viewed to take place in the FUTURE, which some interpret meaning there isn't a "lake of fire" NOW, or at least nobody is in it yet. There is also the question of how "literal" Revelation is supposed to be interpreted anyway. Annihilationists believe that the torment of the "lake of fire and sulfur" is not literal, but instead [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic figurative or symbolic]]; the "lake of fire and sulfur" represents [[KilledOffForReal eternal destruction]] and those sent there are [[DeaderThanDead completely obliterated]], since eternal punishment would instantly mean that GodIsEvil.

to:

Note that the first and third passages DO mention damned humans. However, none of these passages say anything about being underground or demons doing the tormenting. In addition, Revelation is generally viewed to take place in the FUTURE, which some interpret meaning there isn't a "lake of fire" NOW, or at least nobody is in it yet. There is also the question of how "literal" Revelation is supposed to be interpreted anyway. Annihilationists believe that the torment of the "lake of fire and sulfur" is not literal, but instead [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic figurative or symbolic]]; the "lake of fire and sulfur" represents [[KilledOffForReal eternal destruction]] and those sent there are [[DeaderThanDead completely obliterated]], since eternal punishment would instantly mean that GodIsEvil.
GodIsEvil. On the other hand, the Devil (not human), the beast (usually seen as the Antichrist, humanity debatable), and the false prophet (usually interpreted as human) are said to be tormented forever therein, so make of it what you will.
9th May '12 5:37:59 AM LordGro
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The "fire and brimstone" part comes from a set of passages in chapters 14 and 19-21 of the Book of Revelation, in which [[{{Satan}} the devil]] and the ungodly are cast into a lake of fire and sulfur, which is generally considered to be the same as ''Gehenna'':

to:

The "fire and brimstone" part comes from a set of passages in chapters 14 and 19-21 of the Book of Revelation, Literature/BookOfRevelation, in which [[{{Satan}} the devil]] and the ungodly are cast into a lake of fire and sulfur, which is generally considered to be the same as ''Gehenna'':
19th Mar '12 2:22:41 PM ArcadesSabboth
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But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning. (Surah 22:19-22, "The Pilgrimage")

to:

But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning. (Surah 22:19-22, "The Pilgrimage")Pilgrimage")
----
15th Mar '12 9:06:27 PM ArcadesSabboth
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The concept of FireAndBrimstoneHell comes from a distinction LostInTranslation. The word "Hell" is used as a translation for four words used in the initial writing of Literature/TheBible in its original languages: ''Sheol'', ''Hades'', ''Tartarus'', and ''Gehenna''. ''Sheol'' is a Hebrew word and ''Hades'' is Greek; both mean the same thing, the abode of the dead for all humans, whether good or bad, at least until Armageddon, and used in conjunction with Ecclesiastes 9:5 would refer to CessationOfExistence. ''Hades'' is mentioned as a place of torment only once; in Luke 16:19-31, Jesus tells a story about a rich man who died and went there (however, this was a parable, so whether he meant it literally is up for debate). ''Tartarus'' is used only once:

to:

The concept of FireAndBrimstoneHell comes from a distinction LostInTranslation. The word "Hell" is used as a translation for four words used in the initial writing of Literature/TheBible ''Literature/TheBible'' in its original languages: ''Sheol'', ''Hades'', ''Tartarus'', and ''Gehenna''. ''Sheol'' is a Hebrew word and ''Hades'' is Greek; both mean the same thing, the abode of the dead for all humans, whether good or bad, at least until Armageddon, and used in conjunction with Ecclesiastes 9:5 would refer to CessationOfExistence. ''Hades'' is mentioned as a place of torment only once; once: in Luke 16:19-31, Jesus tells a story about a rich man who died and went there (however, this was a parable, so whether he meant it literally is up for debate). ''Tartarus'' is used only once:



Note that this is in past tense, and the phrase "reserved for judgment" denotes that that this is not the final fate for the {{Fallen Angel}}s referred to. ''Gehenna'' is a Greek word that when translated means "Valley of Hinnom", which was a trash dump where garbage filth, corpses of criminals, and the like were burned. Jesus re-purposed this word to refer to the future eventual end and KarmicDeath of the wicked. Unfortunately, the ''King James Version'' translated ALL FOUR words as "Hell", despite ''Hades'' and ''Gehenna'' having different meanings and thus causing some confusion, especially considering the KJV's long-standing use and popularity. Recent Bible translations have caught on to this error and make some attempts to correct it, but it's too little, too late to reverse the popular notion of "Hell".

to:

Note that this is in past tense, and the phrase "reserved for judgment" denotes that that this is not the final fate for the {{Fallen Angel}}s referred to. ''Gehenna'' is a Greek word that when translated means "Valley of Hinnom", which was a trash dump where garbage garbage, filth, corpses of criminals, and the like were burned. Jesus re-purposed this word to refer to the future eventual end and KarmicDeath of the wicked. Unfortunately, the ''King James Version'' translated ALL FOUR words as "Hell", despite ''Hades'' and ''Gehenna'' having different meanings and thus causing some confusion, especially considering the KJV's long-standing use and popularity. Recent Bible translations have caught on to this error and make some attempts to correct it, but it's too little, too late to reverse the popular notion of "Hell".



The more popular notion of FireAndBrimstoneHell where demons torment the damned appears to have originated with Dante's ''[[DivineComedy Inferno]]'', so this is OlderThanPrint...more or less. Most of the layers of Hell in ''Inferno'' were more like the IronicHell. [[{{Flanderization}} Only about one or two layers were]] TRULY Fire and Brimstone (in fact, the lowest level, reserved for traitors, was [[EvilIsDeathlyCold completely frozen over]]).

to:

The more popular notion of FireAndBrimstoneHell where demons torment the damned appears to have originated with Dante's ''[[DivineComedy Inferno]]'', so this is OlderThanPrint... more or less. Most of the layers of Hell in ''Inferno'' were more like the IronicHell. [[{{Flanderization}} Only about one or two layers were]] TRULY Fire and Brimstone (in (In fact, the lowest level, reserved for traitors, was [[EvilIsDeathlyCold completely frozen over]]).
10th Mar '12 9:38:49 AM Telcontar
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The concept of FireAndBrimstoneHell comes from a distinction LostInTranslation. The word "Hell" is used as a translation for four words used in the initial writing of TheBible in its original languages: ''Sheol'', ''Hades'', ''Tartarus'', and ''Gehenna''. ''Sheol'' is a Hebrew word and ''Hades'' is Greek; both mean the same thing, the abode of the dead for all humans, whether good or bad, at least until Armageddon, and used in conjunction with Ecclesiastes 9:5 would refer to CessationOfExistence. ''Hades'' is mentioned as a place of torment only once; in Luke 16:19-31, Jesus tells a story about a rich man who died and went there (however, this was a parable, so whether he meant it literally is up for debate). ''Tartarus'' is used only once:

to:

The concept of FireAndBrimstoneHell comes from a distinction LostInTranslation. The word "Hell" is used as a translation for four words used in the initial writing of TheBible Literature/TheBible in its original languages: ''Sheol'', ''Hades'', ''Tartarus'', and ''Gehenna''. ''Sheol'' is a Hebrew word and ''Hades'' is Greek; both mean the same thing, the abode of the dead for all humans, whether good or bad, at least until Armageddon, and used in conjunction with Ecclesiastes 9:5 would refer to CessationOfExistence. ''Hades'' is mentioned as a place of torment only once; in Luke 16:19-31, Jesus tells a story about a rich man who died and went there (however, this was a parable, so whether he meant it literally is up for debate). ''Tartarus'' is used only once:
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