History Analysis / Batman

1st Jul '16 12:29:15 PM CJF
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Added DiffLines:

** Joe Chill: Alcoholism
29th Jun '16 10:40:41 AM CJF
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Which brings us to TheJoker. He is the extreme of criminal behavior that law is unable to resolve. A constant throughout the series is that Joker ''can not'' be redeemed. His madness cannot be treated or cured. In fact his madness is slightly contagious; trying to analyze him, or in some cases just spending a significant amount of time in his proximity, may drive you mad as well. He can't be contained either; imprison him and he'll just break out again. Only one thing can really be done with him...and no representative of law and order - not even Gotham's extraordinary agent of it - is willing or able to do that. ThouShaltNotKill is the one rule that ''no one'' will break, even though it will quite handily solve the unsolvable problem of the Joker, and that is presented to us as a good thing. Unfortunately traditional concepts of "good" and "evil" do not apply in a place like Gotham. The Joker's continued existence - and the continued reign of terror he engages in - is the inevitable end product of the moral myopia/moral hypocrisy of Gotham City. Everyone in Gotham - including the vigilante who is technically outside the system - is applying a system of morality to a situation where it is no longer relevant, and in the process contributing to their own self-destruction.

to:

Which brings us to TheJoker. He is the extreme of criminal behavior that law is unable to resolve. A constant throughout the series is that Joker ''can not'' be redeemed. His madness cannot be treated or cured. In fact his madness is slightly contagious; trying to analyze him, or in some cases just spending a significant amount of time in his proximity, may drive you mad as well. He can't be contained either; imprison him and he'll just break out again. Only one thing can really be done with him...and no representative of law and order - not even Gotham's extraordinary agent of it - is willing or able to do that. ThouShaltNotKill is the one rule that ''no one'' will break, even though it will quite handily solve the unsolvable problem of the Joker, and that is presented to us as a good thing. Unfortunately traditional concepts of "good" and "evil" do not apply in a place like Gotham. The Joker's continued existence - and the continued reign of terror he engages in - is the inevitable end product of the moral myopia/moral hypocrisy of Gotham City. Everyone in Gotham - including the vigilante who is technically outside the system - is applying a system of morality to a situation where it is no longer relevant, and in the process contributing to their own self-destruction.self-destruction.

[[WMG: Mental disorders of the villains]]
Just what are the types of psychoses that Batman's enemies that are labeled insane and sent to Arkham possess? It's known that Riddler has an extreme case of obsessive compulsive disorder, due to childhood abuse. This makes him obsessed with never lying by leaving clues around, as he simply ''cannot'' commit a crime without clues. Two-Face had multiple personalities, with the darker one being more dominant, but the good side having some power through the use of the coin. It's possible that the Ventriloquist also has multiple personalities shown through the puppet Scarface, but I believe that Scarface is living. And the Joker's mental disorder is unknown. But what's wrong with the other villains like Poison Ivy or Killer Croc? Exactly what is the name of the insanity they have that causes them to do what they do? Feel free to add suggestions.
** Poison Ivy and Croc are probably held at Arkham just because a normal prison couldn't make the accommodations necessary to house a giant lizard man and a woman who controls plants. [[CardboardPrison Not that Arkham does a great job either ...]]
*** I dunno, they probably qualify for a fictional psychosis relating to psychological association of one's identity with the source of metahuman traits rather than human society. ''We'' probably don't have a formal psychological disorder classification for people who categorize themselves as plants and crocodiles rather than humans, but a world with rampant metahumans probably does. They're probably sent to Arkham because their crimes could be stopped (or at least reduced) by convincing them to think of themselves as ''Homo sapiens'', which can only be done at a psychological facility.
*** "''We'' probably don't have a formal psychological disorder classification for people who categorize themselves as plants and crocodiles rather than humans"? I feel like this needs a "yet", seeing as we have those people now.
*** Its been said that KC has been suffering from his mutation/disease so much that he acts more like a reptile than a man.
*** Clayface and Man-Bat probably suffer from a similar "no longer thinks of himself as human, and thus not bound by human social rules due to abnormal metahuman morphology" disorder, emphasized by how Man-Bat is usually a villain to one degree or another, whereas Kirk Langstrom isn't (there's probably some identity disassociation going on there too for Langstrom)
** Scarecrow's characterization varies rather widely, but Jeph Loeb's characterization leaves the impression that he has Dissociative Identity Disorder - when his mask is ripped off in Hush he begins speaking in a normal tone (when he had been singing "Hush little baby ..." before), and doesn't seem to answer to "Scarecrow" and "Jonathan Crane" at the same time. Other characterizations are open to a litany of "diagnoses." Of course, see the "Dr. Crane is faking it" entry above for AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.
** [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Hatter_(comics) The Mad Hatter]] is said to be schizophrenic.
** Harley is all kinds of crazy, but we can probably specifically pinpoint some variation of Stockholme Syndrome or patient-doctor transference, at least in her StartOfDarkness.
** Calendar Man is almost certainly obsessive compulsive to some degree or another what with his inexplicable calendar theme.
** Firefly is a pyromaniac, and that's a legitimate type of impulse control disorder.
** Maxie Zeus is literally and explicitly delusional.
** Ra's al Ghul is occasionally cited as suffering from a type of insanity induced by the side-effects of the Lazarus pits having more lasting effects on him due to repeated use; they may be hoping that therapy can counteract this and make him a little more rational in his ecological aims.
** This troper would go as far as to say each of the main villains suffers from a cartoonish version of a real disorder. The Joker, for example, has a serious case of mania. It would explain his clownishness and motormouth. The Riddler suffers from obsessive compulsive disorder in most of his incarnations, the Penguin is a narcissist, Catwoman is a crazy cat lady, Mr. Freeze is depressed, Bane is suffering from substance abuse, Two-Face has split personalities, and the Scarecrow is an asshole.
* The Joker seems to have multiple disorders instead of just one:
** [[LackOfEmpathy Anti-social personality disorder]]-He sees others are part of an elaborate joke
** Dementia-The Joker's whole worldview, plus the fact [[NoFourthWall he considers the world he inhabits fictional
** [[DespairEventHorizon Depression]]-ComicBook/TheKillingJoke implies that the Joker uses insanity as an escape from pain.
** Dissociative personality disorder-[[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation The numerous personalities the Joker has adopted over the years.]]
** Platonic [[FoeYay (or not)]] [[StalkerWithACrush eroto]][[StalkerWithoutACrush mania]]-The Joker is obsessed with Batman as his arch-enemy, often refusing to kill him to continue their rivalry. It borders on [[FoeYay outright romance]] in the most twisted way possible.
** [[TheNarcissist Narcissim]]-Sees his crimes as one big game, and loves to goad others(mainly Batman) into playing it
** [[ForTheEvulz Sadistic personality disorder]]-The Joker's favourite crimes are hurting his foes on a personal level, and much of what he does is basically [[MadArtist artistic sadism.]]
** [[TheSociopath Sociopathy]]-The Joker is incapable of empathy or guilt, highly intelligent and [[ManipulativeBastard good at manipulating others]]. If you take the interpretation that he's faking madness.
23rd May '16 6:26:33 PM Anddrix
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* ''SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker'': He represents the chaos and dark impulses that Batman struggles against every day -- in crimefighting and within his own mind. Newer iterations have also played up his Determinator attribute to contrast with Batman's. While Batman will never stop trying to stop crime, the Joker will never stop trying to get Batman to break his [[ThouShaltNotKill one rule]].

to:

* ''SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker'': ''ComicBook/TheJoker'': He represents the chaos and dark impulses that Batman struggles against every day -- in crimefighting and within his own mind. Newer iterations have also played up his Determinator attribute to contrast with Batman's. While Batman will never stop trying to stop crime, the Joker will never stop trying to get Batman to break his [[ThouShaltNotKill one rule]].
1st Dec '15 3:27:02 AM emerald005
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* ''SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker'': He represents the chaos and dark impulses that Batman struggles against every day -- in crimefighting and within his own mind.

to:

* ''SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker'': He represents the chaos and dark impulses that Batman struggles against every day -- in crimefighting and within his own mind. Newer iterations have also played up his Determinator attribute to contrast with Batman's. While Batman will never stop trying to stop crime, the Joker will never stop trying to get Batman to break his [[ThouShaltNotKill one rule]].
1st Dec '15 2:33:51 AM emerald005
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* ''Mr. Freeze'': In his more modern incarnations at least, has suffered the brutal loss of a loved one that has subsequently defined his life in the same way that Bruce Wayne losing his parents defined his.

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* ''Mr. Freeze'': In his more modern incarnations at least, has suffered the brutal loss of a loved one that has subsequently defined his life in the same way that Bruce Wayne losing his parents defined his. In some incarnations, he also shares Batman's AwesomeByAnalysis abilities.
14th Oct '15 2:24:55 AM arrgh
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* ''Two-Face'': Represents the struggle between dual identities inherent in Batman/Bruce Wayne's psychology. Harvey's own HeroComplex of having things be fair so much that he creates his own villian/nemesis in Two-Face just for balance and duality.

to:

* ''Two-Face'': Represents the struggle between dual identities inherent in Batman/Bruce Wayne's psychology. Harvey's own HeroComplex of having things be fair so much that he creates his own villian/nemesis in Two-Face just for balance and duality. Further, his coin-flipping gimmick - leaving his actions up to random chance - largely represents a rejection of the entire concept of moral responsibility. This concept utterly *defines* Batman (and many other heroes and villains).
15th Sep '15 3:21:59 PM Anddrix
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* ''Maximilian "Maxie" Zeus'': At least in TheBatman, A wealthy businessman who uses his money for gadgets and for ruling over Gotham.

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* ''Maximilian "Maxie" Zeus'': At least in TheBatman, ''WesternAnimation/TheBatman'', A wealthy businessman who uses his money for gadgets and for ruling over Gotham.
26th Aug '15 7:10:10 PM EricW
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* ''Black Mask'': Both try to run the family business, only for Black Mask to fail and decides to go into crime.

to:

* ''Black Mask'': Both try to run the family business, only for Black Mask to fail and decides to go into crime. Further, Black Mask at one point ended up having his trademark black mask fused to his face in a fire...echoing how Bruce Wayne can sometimes define his own worth by how he does as Batman.
9th Jul '15 9:10:32 PM SpoopS
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Which brings us to TheJoker. He is the extreme of criminal behavior that law is unable to resolve. A constant throughout the series is that Joker ''can not'' be redeemed. His madness cannot be treated or cured. In fact his madness is slightly contagious; trying to analyze him, or in some cases just spending a significant amount of time in his proximity, may drive you mad as well. He can't be contained either; imprison him and he'll just break out again. Only one thing can really be done with him...and no representative of law and order - not even Gotham's extraordinary agent of it - is willing or able to do that. ThouShaltNotKill is the one rule that ''no one'' will break, even though it will quite handily solve the unsolvable problem of the Joker, and that is presented to us as a good thing. Unfortunately traditional concepts of "good" and "evil" do not apply in a place like Gotham. The city has been abandoned by God, and the only reason God's laws hold any sway at all is because it gives them comfort to the citizens of the city to believe that they do. The Joker's continued existence - and the continued reign of terror he engages in - is the inevitable end product of the moral myopia/moral hypocrisy of Gotham City. Everyone in Gotham - including the vigilante who is technically outside the system - is applying a system of morality to a situation where it is no longer relevant, and in the process contributing to their own self-destruction.

to:

Which brings us to TheJoker. He is the extreme of criminal behavior that law is unable to resolve. A constant throughout the series is that Joker ''can not'' be redeemed. His madness cannot be treated or cured. In fact his madness is slightly contagious; trying to analyze him, or in some cases just spending a significant amount of time in his proximity, may drive you mad as well. He can't be contained either; imprison him and he'll just break out again. Only one thing can really be done with him...and no representative of law and order - not even Gotham's extraordinary agent of it - is willing or able to do that. ThouShaltNotKill is the one rule that ''no one'' will break, even though it will quite handily solve the unsolvable problem of the Joker, and that is presented to us as a good thing. Unfortunately traditional concepts of "good" and "evil" do not apply in a place like Gotham. The city has been abandoned by God, and the only reason God's laws hold any sway at all is because it gives them comfort to the citizens of the city to believe that they do. The Joker's continued existence - and the continued reign of terror he engages in - is the inevitable end product of the moral myopia/moral hypocrisy of Gotham City. Everyone in Gotham - including the vigilante who is technically outside the system - is applying a system of morality to a situation where it is no longer relevant, and in the process contributing to their own self-destruction.
5th Jul '15 10:35:46 AM CJF
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to:

* ''Maximilian "Maxie" Zeus'': At least in TheBatman, A wealthy businessman who uses his money for gadgets and for ruling over Gotham.
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