History AlternativeCharacterInterpretation / VideoGames

15th Nov '16 2:39:22 PM TheNewBig
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** For that matter, the entire "Maverick" thing. Canonically it's caused by viruses, but especially in the first and fourth games, there's very little to suggest that it was anything other than what it looked like on the surface: a rebellion. If that's what it was, were they even necessarily bad? Moreover, was Repliforce in ''X4'' really bad at all or were the Maverick Hunters and/or humans just paranoid and overzealous bastards who couldn't stand the thought of robots not following orders? This is compounded severalfold by the fact that in the ''[[VideoGame/MegaManZero Zero]]'' series (same universe, just a hundred years or so later), the Irregulars ''are'' a genuine robot rebellion (and the good guys) against a tyrannical society which seems to hate all Reploids, and the leader of their enemies is ''a copy of X''.
*** Alternatively alternatively, they're an army answerable to the world governments, and therefore they have agreed to obey orders unless they were needlessly suicidal or would involve doing the kinds of things they were framed for. Throw in the parts where their troops and their equipment were seen at the scene of an atrocity, and their steadfast refusal to come in for questioning so they could potentially clear themselves came not from the worry that they'll be scapegoated but rather a glorified mechanical pissing contest (which would look really suspicious), and it becomes less "overzealous bastards who couldn't stand the thought of robots not obeying orders" and more "panicked but justifiable reaction."

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** For Repliforce: Villains? Innocents declared villains by a government too quick to judge them? Dangerous morons with incredible firepower that matter, needed to be stopped? Or a balance of all three interpretations? Well-intentioned soldiers who made a foolish mistake and were too proud to admit it when faced with the entire "Maverick" thing. Canonically shock of the world's leaders finding them inefficient at best, and Mavericks at worst?
** Colonel himself can be subjected to quite a bit of this. In X's story, his decision seems to be made out of nothing but foolish pride. In Zero's, however, he's clearly shocked and outraged that the government would suspect him of being Maverick, and later in the story, honestly seems to believe that war is their only option, sometimes to a delusional extent. Given his backstory...
it's certainly possible being faced with the threat of having his life's purpose taken from him caused by viruses, but especially in the first and fourth games, there's very little him to suggest that it was anything other than what it looked like on the surface: a rebellion. If that's what it was, were they even necessarily bad? Moreover, was Repliforce in ''X4'' really bad at all or were the Maverick Hunters and/or humans just paranoid and overzealous bastards who couldn't stand the thought of robots not following orders? This is compounded severalfold by the fact that in the ''[[VideoGame/MegaManZero Zero]]'' series (same universe, just a hundred years or so later), the Irregulars ''are'' a genuine robot rebellion (and the good guys) against a tyrannical society which seems to hate all Reploids, and the leader of their enemies is ''a copy of X''.
*** Alternatively alternatively, they're an army answerable to the world governments, and therefore they have agreed to obey orders unless they were needlessly suicidal or would involve doing the kinds of things they were framed for. Throw in the parts where their troops and their equipment were seen at the scene of an atrocity, and their steadfast refusal to come in for questioning so they could potentially clear themselves came not from the worry that they'll be scapegoated but rather a glorified mechanical pissing contest (which would look really suspicious), and it becomes less "overzealous bastards who couldn't stand the thought of robots not obeying orders" and more "panicked but justifiable reaction."
snap.



*** The Cadre fits this as well. Initially they seem to be a bunch of greedy, power-hungry sociopaths who cruelly oppress and subjugate everyone in Giga City -- until you find that a few of their members are surprisingly fair and honorable people, the fact that they're the project of unethical experiments and are being manipulated by TheManBehindTheMan. Even Ferham, the seemingly sadomasochistic [[TheBaroness Baroness]], has a genuinely tender moment with a fellow comrade. Their leader might even have a point that using force really might be the only way for a group of Reploids to be heard. Despite all the horrible things they've done in the game, they're a hard lot to figure out, which is even reflected in the game when they're posthumously deferred Maverick status.

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*** For that matter, the entire "Maverick" thing. Canonically it's caused by viruses, but especially in the first and fourth games, there's very little to suggest that it was anything other than what it looked like on the surface: a rebellion. If that's what it was, were they necessarily bad? This is compounded severalfold by the fact that in the Zero series (same universe, just a hundred years or so later), the Irregulars are a genuine robot rebellion (and the good guys) against a tyrannical society which seems to hate all reploids, and the leader of their enemies is a copy of X.
**
The Cadre fits this as well. Liberion Army of Command Mission: Initially they seem to be a bunch of greedy, power-hungry sociopaths who cruelly oppress and subjugate everyone in Giga City -- - until you find that a few of their members (namely the Cadre) are surprisingly fair and honorable people, and the fact that they're the project of unethical experiments and are as well as being manipulated by TheManBehindTheMan. The Man Behind the Man. Even Ferham, the seemingly sadomasochistic [[TheBaroness Baroness]], Baroness, has a genuinely tender moment with a fellow comrade. Their leader might even have a point that using force really might be the only way for a group of Reploids reploids to be heard. Despite all the horrible things they've done in the game, they're a hard lot to figure out, which is even reflected in the game when they're posthumously deferred Maverick status.status.
** Despite what many of the Reploids they encounter say, neither X, Zero or even Axl are ever shown to adopt a "shoot first" approach. More often than not, they ask them to surrender peacefully, are refused, and thus are forced to kill the Reploid in self-defense. However... some lines from Zero among others imply the Maverick Hunters prefer their officers to eliminate their target without wasting time. Is this policy because innocent humans and Reploids are in danger at the time and take precedence over violent Mavericks? Because each and every Maverick the Hunters have encountered have refused to surrender anyway? Because of the danger a possibly viral Maverick or one feigning surrender presents? Or is their a racist anti-Reploid agenda behind it?
** The humans themselves, particularly the government. Not helped by the fact that humans rarely get their own views, or even appearance, shown in game (the only human we see, Dr. Cain, even disappears after X4). Are most of them really well-meaning, seeing the Reploids as equals, and valuing the hard work they do, or do most refuse to see the distinction between them and the Mechanaloids,(which are literal machines) seeing both as tools and are only happy as long as the Reploids do what they want, as Sigma believed? As for the trust issues, are they simply being Properly Paranoid about them, given their capabilities, or are they fanatical bigots, taking their paranoia too far, seeing nothing wrong with treating innocent Reploids citizens, who, just as the humans, would like nothing more than for the wars to stop, with hostility and suspicion, much like Weil, who felt the entire race "got off too easy" because of crimes that Sigma and other Mavericks committed?



*** Maverick Hunters didn't really start their KnightTemplar tendencies until after the Repliforce incident. Did the Maverick Hunters start their shoot first, ask questions later ''because'' of Repliforce, where free-willed Mavericks proved to be just as dangerous as viral Mavericks? Magma Dragoon dropped a floating city, killing millions, to draw the protagonists into a fight with him, and the Repliforce preferred to start a shooting war over clearing themselves from a frame job for ''incredibly'' petty reasons. Is it any wonder humans don't trust Reploids? Was Repliforce the catalyst for the later games' morally ambiguous nature of the Maverick Hunters?
18th Oct '16 4:44:01 PM nombretomado
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* Gordon Freeman from ''VideoGame/HalfLife''. Is he a MessianicArchetype, a pure and just bringer of intervention when the time is right, or a monster with the intention of killing everything he can. FreemansMind puts him in the middle, as a self serving nutjob who thinks that gnomes are real, and would like one as a pet.

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* Gordon Freeman from ''VideoGame/HalfLife''. Is he a MessianicArchetype, a pure and just bringer of intervention when the time is right, or a monster with the intention of killing everything he can. FreemansMind ''Machinima/FreemansMind'' puts him in the middle, as a self serving nutjob who thinks that gnomes are real, and would like one as a pet.
27th Sep '16 6:26:43 AM TheNewBig
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** Axl, the latest hero character, ranges from a hyper-active little kid, a good-natured rookie, a [[CreepyChild creepy]] ChildSoldier who sees everything as a game, or an angsty cutter. (Yes, really.)
** Iris, Zero's romantic interest, varies from a [[IncorruptiblePurePureness complete saint]], a seemingly sweet person who is [[{{Yandere}} secretly crazy]], a [[{{Moe}} cute girl]] who wants everyone to get along, or a [[ClingyJealousGirl petty little brat]] who doesn't want to realize that Zero doesn't like her or tries to between the HoYay. Alia tends to fall into some of these as well.
** Vile: A [[AxCrazy complete psychopath]] who wants to kill X to [[TheOnlyOneAllowedToDefeatYou get even for his defeat]], or is he a cynical RebelliousSpirit who isn't [[NotSoDifferent all that different]] from the heroes or a Reploid with an [[LoveMakesYouEvil obsession]] with X and will do [[StalkerWithACrush anything to be with him]]?

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** Axl, the latest hero character, Axl ranges from a hyper-active little kid, a good-natured rookie, and a [[CreepyChild creepy]] ChildSoldier creepy Child Soldier who sees everything as a game, or an angsty cutter. (Yes, really.)
game.
** Iris, Zero's romantic interest, varies from a [[IncorruptiblePurePureness complete saint]], saint, a seemingly sweet person who is [[{{Yandere}} secretly crazy]], a [[{{Moe}} cute girl]] crazy, and truly sweet yet naive girl who just wants everyone to get along, or a [[ClingyJealousGirl petty little brat]] who doesn't want to realize that Zero doesn't like her or tries to between the HoYay. Alia tends to fall into some of these as well.
along.
** Vile: A [[AxCrazy complete psychopath]] psychopath who wants to kill X to [[TheOnlyOneAllowedToDefeatYou get even for his defeat]], defeat, or is he a cynical RebelliousSpirit Rebellious Spirit who isn't [[NotSoDifferent all that different]] different from the heroes or a Reploid with an [[LoveMakesYouEvil obsession]] with X and will do [[StalkerWithACrush anything to be with him]]?heroes?



*** The Cadre fits this a little more. Initially they seem to be a bunch of greedy, power-hungry sociopaths who cruelly oppress and subjugate everyone in Giga City -- until you find that a few of their members are surprisingly fair and honorable people, the fact that they're the project of unethical experiments and are being manipulated by TheManBehindTheMan. Even Ferham, the seemingly sadomasochistic [[TheBaroness Baroness]], has a genuinely tender moment with a fellow comrade. Their leader might even have a point that using force really might be the only way for a group of Reploids to be heard. Despite all the horrible things they've done in the game, they're a hard lot to figure out, which is even reflected in the game when they're posthumously deferred Maverick status.

to:

*** The Cadre fits this a little more.as well. Initially they seem to be a bunch of greedy, power-hungry sociopaths who cruelly oppress and subjugate everyone in Giga City -- until you find that a few of their members are surprisingly fair and honorable people, the fact that they're the project of unethical experiments and are being manipulated by TheManBehindTheMan. Even Ferham, the seemingly sadomasochistic [[TheBaroness Baroness]], has a genuinely tender moment with a fellow comrade. Their leader might even have a point that using force really might be the only way for a group of Reploids to be heard. Despite all the horrible things they've done in the game, they're a hard lot to figure out, which is even reflected in the game when they're posthumously deferred Maverick status.


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Dr.Weil, even from the start, had pretty warped ideas of right and wrong, blaming the entire Reploid race for the crimes of the Mavericks. It's entirely possible all the suffering and destruction around him at the time (The Maverick Wars, the fall of Doppler Town, the Sky Lagoon Disaster, Repliforce's rebellion, a colony drop, the emergence of yet another strain of the Maverick Virus, and a large-scale rebellion by the new generation reploids, all in his lifetime) left him severely unhinged.
26th Sep '16 9:05:12 PM TheNewBig
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** [[http://www.destructoid.com/dr-wily-the-man-who-tried-to-save-the-world-199795.phtml Destructoid's Tony Ponce takes a look into Dr. Wily's character.]] Is he actually the OnlySaneMan on the outlook of human-robot relations, seeing RidiculouslyHumanRobots as a danger to society, and eventually BecomingTheMask as a MadScientist bent on [[TakeOverTheWorld taking over the world]]?
** Then there's the BigBad of the ''[[VideoGame/MegaManZero Zero]]'' series, Dr. Weil. Him being evil is completely undeniable. At first, his actions in the Elf Wars seem purely because [[FantasticRacism he thinks people are superior to Reploids]]. But consider all the attacks by Mavericks, the moral ambiguity of the Maverick Hunters (who only exist because humans are essentially defenseless against said Mavericks), the collateral damage... Oh, and also a crazy Maverick tries to destroy everyone via ColonyDrop. And this all happens in around a decade. When you think about it, Dr. Weil [[StrawmanHasAPoint has a pretty good reason to hate Reploidkind]].

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** [[http://www.destructoid.com/dr-wily-the-man-who-tried-to-save-the-world-199795.phtml Destructoid's Tony Ponce takes a look into Dr. Wily's character.]] Is he actually the OnlySaneMan on the outlook of human-robot relations, seeing RidiculouslyHumanRobots as a danger to society, and eventually BecomingTheMask as a MadScientist bent on [[TakeOverTheWorld taking over the world]]?
** Then there's the BigBad of the ''[[VideoGame/MegaManZero Zero]]'' series, Dr. Weil. Him being evil is completely undeniable. At first, his actions in the Elf Wars seem purely because [[FantasticRacism he thinks people are superior to Reploids]]. But consider all the attacks by Mavericks, the moral ambiguity of the Maverick Hunters (who only exist because humans are essentially defenseless against said Mavericks), the collateral damage... Oh, and also a crazy Maverick tries to destroy everyone via ColonyDrop. And this all happens in around a decade. When you think about it, Dr. Weil [[StrawmanHasAPoint has a pretty good reason to hate Reploidkind]].
world]]?.
26th Sep '16 6:12:20 PM Valiona
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** Toriel is the first non hostile friendly monster you meet in the underground and she solves some puzzles for you while making sure you're not hurt. After arriving at her house, she is not only overjoyed that she has company again in a long time, she even has a room set up for you and lessons prepared to educate you. If you try to leave her so you can return to your home with the humans, she blocks the way and attacks you to see if you're really capable of standing up on your own two feet. Is Toriel an extreme case of MyBelovedSmother or is she just really worried about the player character's safety and doesn't want anything bad to happen to them? [[spoiler: It's only during the true pacifist route where you discover that Toriel and her husband had two kids of their own that died at the same time before the game started.]]

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** Toriel is the first non hostile friendly monster you meet in the underground and she solves some puzzles for you while making sure you're not hurt. After arriving at her house, she is not only overjoyed that she has company again in a long time, she even has a room set up for you and lessons prepared to educate you. If you try to leave her so you can return to your home with the humans, she blocks the way and attacks you to see if you're really capable of standing up on your own two feet. Is Toriel an extreme case of MyBelovedSmother or is she just really worried about the player character's safety and doesn't want anything bad to happen to them? [[spoiler: It's only during the true pacifist route where you discover that Toriel and her husband had two kids of their own own- one biological and another adopted- that died at the same time before the game started.]]



*** During the final mak'gora with Thrall, [[spoiler:which ends in Garrosh's death]], Garrosh accuses Thrall of leaving him the responsibility of running the Horde, even though Garrosh wasn't ready for it. Does Garrosh have a point, meaning that Thrall was partly responsible for his misdeeds, or is he [[NeverMyFault blaming others for his own mistakes]]? Furthermore, consider that the last time Thrall and Garrosh met, Garrosh arrogantly dismissed Thrall as [[CategoryTraitor no longer a true orc]], and accused him of weakening the Horde even as Garrosh's allies turned against him. Did Garrosh come to regret his actions, or does he still think that he's a better Warchief than Thrall?



*** Does Neku have a romantic interest in Shiki, or is it simply the first person he's opened up to that she becomes [[spoiler:his fee for the second week]]?

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*** Does Neku have a romantic interest in Shiki, or is it simply the first person he's opened up to that she becomes [[spoiler:his fee for the second week]]?week]]? It's implied that [[spoiler:Kitaniji made her Neku's "entry fee" to cover up the fact that without the Composer, he couldn't bring anyone back to life]], which would mean Shiki doesn't necessarily have to be most important to Neku, but Neku never doubts that she's that important to him after hearing the news.
12th Sep '16 1:04:40 AM Killerikala
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Added DiffLines:

* Batman in the ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamSeries''. Is he a deeply traumatized, overprotective father figure to his followers, or a {{Jerkass}} ControlFreak who is in it only for himself, and refuses to trust or acknowledge what his allies are actually capable of? ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamKnight'' rises more questions due to his [[spoiler: Joker infection. Is the Joker hallucination fueled by his own mindset, is it the Joker's fault, or are his followers, while certainly capable, liabilities that keep getting themselves captured?]]


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** Arguably, the point of [[spoiler: Jack Marston. His fate is entirely in the hands of the player, and he becomes either an outlaw hellbent on avenging his father, or starts helping people, taking after his father.]]
12th Aug '16 12:39:51 AM UmbrellasWereAwesome
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** The second probably comes from the ExpandedUniverse with the [=SPARTAN-IIs=]' rather unfortunate conscription - the concept of John-117 being trained from a child wasn't explicitly stated in the games (apart from the [[http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Grunt "Final Grunt"]] EasterEgg) until ''VideoGame/{{Halo 4}}''. Also, he was trained in the first place to surpress rebels who really did have some legitimate grievances against the UNSC. He could almost be considered a villain, and certainly is from the Covenant's perspective. He's slaughtered thousands of them, many of which were slaves forced to fight against their will, with the Unggoy (Grunts) in particular often running from you in fear and screaming for mercy (those who don't try to suicide-bomb you instead, anyways).

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** The second probably comes from the ExpandedUniverse with the [=SPARTAN-IIs=]' [=Spartan-IIs=]' rather unfortunate conscription - the concept of John-117 being trained from a child wasn't explicitly stated in the games (apart from the [[http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Grunt "Final Grunt"]] EasterEgg) until ''VideoGame/{{Halo 4}}''. Also, he was trained in the first place to surpress rebels who really did have some legitimate grievances against the UNSC. He could almost be considered a villain, and certainly is from the Covenant's perspective. He's slaughtered thousands of them, many of which were slaves forced to fight against their will, with the Unggoy (Grunts) in particular often running from you in fear and screaming for mercy (those who don't try to suicide-bomb you instead, anyways).
6th Aug '16 8:42:25 AM TheSinful
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Added DiffLines:

** Tychus Findley: Amoral bastard only looking out for himself or conflicted friend willing to commit SuicideByCop?
26th Jul '16 12:49:05 PM Prometheus117
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** Illidan: A WellIntentionedExtremist who was a slave to his addiction but never wanted to harm anyone or a greedy SOB who was up to no good?
*** A little of both. He's clearly addicted to power and is extremely ruthless, but isn't completely heartless. He did sincerely love Tyrande, and he didn't get into any of the "force her to love me" routine. For the most part, however, his motives to appear to selfish.

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** Illidan: A Was he a hero who was willing to go to extreme lengths to save his friends, family, and the world? Was he an AntiHero who still ultimately did the right thing? Was he a WellIntentionedExtremist who didn't realize his own evil? Or was he just a slave power-mad loner who did a couple of good deeds to justify it to himself? Notable in that the writing of the games have slowly slid from the first to the last in the way it portrays both his addiction but never wanted to harm anyone or a greedy SOB who was up to no good?
current and past actions over time.
*** A little of both. He's clearly addicted to power and is extremely ruthless, but isn't completely heartless. He did sincerely love Tyrande, and he didn't get into any of the "force her to love me" routine. For the most part, however, his motives to appear to selfish. ''Legion'' and its supplementary material, in particular, posit that all of these interpretations are valid to some extent, and InUniverse various other characters lean in one direction or another over him (the split between Kayn and Altruis being the most obvious).
15th Jul '16 2:36:19 PM X2X
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** What Diz says is true, when talking about ''normal Nobodies.'' The problem is that he applies the same ideas to Roxas, who can and does feel emotions, (probably something to do with [[spoiler:Ventus]]) and Namine, who he ''admits'' in the Secret Ansem Reports is almost nothing like a Nobody to begin with.

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** What Diz says is true, when talking about ''normal Nobodies.'' Nobodies''. The problem is that he applies the same ideas to Roxas, who can and does feel emotions, (probably emotions (which probably has something to do with [[spoiler:Ventus]]) [[spoiler:Ventus]]), and Namine, Naminé, who he ''admits'' in the Secret Ansem Reports is almost nothing like a Nobody to begin with.



** Others decide to interpret other characters. Such as how Sora is often portrayed as [[IdiotHero being a blithering idiot]] or how Kairi and Namine are [[DieForOurShip portrayed as being evil.]] And Riku is a full-on [[TheWoobie woobie]] who certainly didn't ''mean'' to KickTheDog throughout the first game.

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** Others decide to interpret other characters. Such as how Sora is often portrayed as [[IdiotHero being a blithering idiot]] or how Kairi and Namine Naminé are [[DieForOurShip portrayed as being evil.]] evil]]. And Riku is a full-on [[TheWoobie woobie]] who certainly didn't ''mean'' to KickTheDog throughout the first game.game.
*** Also, because Naminé is often seen drawing, there's a good number of {{Yaoi Fangirl}}s who think that she's... well, a YaoiFangirl.



*** Also, because Namine is often seen drawing, there's a good number of {{Yaoi Fangirl}}s who think that she's... well, a YaoiFangirl.
** Due to graphical limitations and some ambiguous dialogue, Axel can be seen as an AxCrazy psycho in the original ''[[VideoGame/KingdomHeartsChainOfMemories Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories]]''. Not so much in the remake or sequels (he was certainly a cold-blooded killer in ''Chain of Memories'', but the 3D version shows that it's clearly not of the psychotic variety) but the damage has been done.

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*** Also, because Namine is often seen drawing, there's a good number of {{Yaoi Fangirl}}s who think that she's... well, a YaoiFangirl.
** Due to graphical limitations and some ambiguous dialogue, Axel can be seen as an AxCrazy psycho in the original ''[[VideoGame/KingdomHeartsChainOfMemories Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories]]''. Not so much in the remake or sequels (he was certainly a cold-blooded killer in ''Chain of Memories'', ''[=CoM=]'', but the 3D version shows that it's clearly not of the psychotic variety) but the damage has been done.



** By the end of ''358/2 Days'', it's all made less confusing and pretty clear that none of the members, except perhaps Xion, Roxas, and (after he's sincerely befriended the two of them) Axel, can feel anything and are more than happy to murder or manipulate the fellow members of the Organization to further their own goals. This is exemplified by Xemnas himself who [[spoiler:orders Xion and Roxas to fight to the death. He may have tried to arrange this before, too. In the end, Roxas defeats Xion and absorbs her, ending her existence entirely.]]
*** [[spoiler:When Xion fights Roxas, she is not only attacking him but taunting him despite that they're friends. It's actually highly possible to see this as a ThanatosGambit since Roxas still benefits from her supposed death. They're so close to each other that Xion's willing to sacrifice herself so Roxas can go on living and benefit...which some people ''will'' do.]]

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** By the end of ''358/2 Days'', it's all made less confusing and pretty clear that none of the members, except perhaps Xion, Roxas, and (after he's sincerely befriended the two of them) Axel, can feel anything and are more than happy to murder or manipulate the fellow members of the Organization to further their own goals. This is exemplified by Xemnas himself who [[spoiler:orders Xion and Roxas to fight to the death. He may have tried to arrange this before, too. In the end, Roxas defeats Xion and absorbs her, ending her existence entirely.]]
entirely]].
*** [[spoiler:When Xion fights Roxas, she is not only attacking him but taunting him despite that they're friends. It's actually highly possible to see this as a ThanatosGambit since Roxas still benefits from her supposed death. They're so close to each other that Xion's willing to sacrifice herself so Roxas can go on living and benefit... which some people ''will'' do.]]
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