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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

A rare anime, being that it is written and produced in France, in English and French for simultaneous release in its home nation as well as the US.

Seth Doesn't that make it a cartoon? Anime is the Japanese word for cartoon therefore calling a non Japanese production Anime seems inaccurate. Its like calling Hey Arnold a rare anime because it never got releaced in japan.

RedBeardSean Just my opinion, but Anime has a different connotation, at least in the US, than cartoon does. The serial storyline, the quality and style of animation and dubbing, these things make it an Anime, for me. A cartoon, on the other hand, is a short without any thought to continuity (i.e. Tom and Jerry, Dexter's Laboratory, et al.); an animated series falls in between these extremes — The Kids Next Door at its best is an animated series, at its worst, a cartoon.

Seth: That's just how the US in general treats the medium. Continuity has nothing to do with country of origin just the style of the cartoon. Examples of Western cartoons with normal continuity would be Xaolin showdown. Anime is the Japanese word for animation simple as that and while they lean more towards continuity and westerners towards Dis Continuity that isn't what defines the medium. Calling a western made cartoon "Anime" is just trying to grab on to the recent popularity of anime. Like Tokyo pop's recent release return to labyrinth that they are calling manga despite being produced entirely in the US and in English, this has received a lot of criticism from fans and Japanese manga artists. A paedophile can call themselves a lolicon* and a comic book writer can call themselves a mangaka but in essence they mean the same thing just in different languages. Anime isn't a style so much as a point of origin. (In my opinion)

Our own page Anime refers to it as Japanese style animation and this page is listed under Animated Shows which is reserved for western animation. We probably need a third perspective on this for now though, I however think that the divide should be maintained on this site so that people don't justify cartoons they like by listing them as Anime when they have nothing to do with Japan.

  • An example that came to mind, tell someone who calls themselves a lolicon that it basically means pedo in Japanese and they don't react well, I met someone a while ago who proudly proclaimed they were a lolicon at the anime club, anyone who knew what the word meant never spoke to him again.

RedBeardSean: How about "Anime-influenced Animation", as non-Japanese anime is now being called? Of course, if La nouvelle manga can refer to the Franco-Belgian manga movement, perhaps there is a similar term for the French anime movement?

Ununnilium: Animesque?

RedBeardSean: The French phrase for a cartoon is dessin animé (lit. animated drawing), whereas the French word for animation is animation. Dessin Animé might be a worthwhile category
Tangent128: The opening could probably use a rewrite; the premise has changed a lot. It still calls Aelita an AI, for one.
Tangent128: Added an image from the season 1 titles for now. If somebody can find a decent 4th season image to replace it with, be my guest.

St Fan: I replaced it with a Season 2 picture. I'm not against a Season 4 image, but this one looks good enough for now.
Hold on, when the entry says Beta couple, who is meant? Because Jeremie and Aelita seem to be listed as both the alpha and the beta couple.

Andy Waltfeld: Get this: BOTH relationship sets serve as both Alpha and Beta couples. The Jeremy/Aelita relationship is an Alpha because it's what drives the plot, but serves as a Beta for the UST cesspool that is X/Y (where X is your choice of Yumi, Ulrich, William, or Sissi and Y is one of the remaining three). X/Y is also an Alpha for providing the series' romantic hook, and a Beta for being stuck in Development Hell.
Andy Waltfeld: St Fan, I like what you've done to the page, but please, PLEASE don't wantonly change the spelling of people's names. The Spell My Name with an S entry is there for a reason, and letting each Troper use their preferred spelling with every update is one of the ways to keep that conflict from escalating into full-blown Edit War.

St Fan: Okay, okay. The lack of uniformity was bugging me, but I'll refrain from making such systematic corrections now.

Andy Waltfeld: ...Or will you?
St Fan: This article would seriously deserve a separate character page... though I'm a bit too much of a newbie to create one myself.

Freezair For A Limited Time: Newbie to the show or the site? If the latter, I'll get it started up if you want to populate it. If the former, I can still make it, but I can also help populate it. Gotta stand by my Guilty Pleasure, after all.

Andy Waltfeld: I'd also like to volunteer for populating the character page, so long as we agree on a way to satisfy all possible spellings of "Jeremy/Jeremie/Jérémie".

Freezair For A Limited Time: How about we use the US spellings for the headers, but note all the alternate and accepted spellings below it?

St Fan: I meant a newbie to the TV Tropes Wiki. I have a good knowledge of the series. For the spelling, I would say the French spellings have slight precedence, being the language of the creators of the show. I'm seeing something simple for each character header, with the most common alternate spelling in parenthesis, like this: Jérémie (Jeremy) Belpois. The spellings-like-in-French-but-without-the-accents aren't worth mentioning, in my opinion.

Andy Waltfeld: As long as nobody tramples over one particular spelling, I don't care which is our primary. Bear in mind, though, not everyone grew up typing Alt+0233 to wow their friends by typing "Pokémon" rather than "Pokemon." Thus, try not to go ape when you see Tropers using the Unaccented French spellings.

St Fan: By "not worth mentionning", I mean in the header with the names. Of course, I know it isn't easy type the accented version when you don't have a French keyboard. Tropers whom add new infos are free to do as they can.

Freezair For A Limited Time: Alright, here's a link to create the character page. It's Freezair's bedtime right now (classes are at 8 tomorrow), but feel free to go to town:

Code Lyoko

Andy Waltfeld: I'm not quite up to the task of making a page from scratch tonight. St Fan, if you'd mind taking the helm?

St Fan: I'll certainly put some effort on it this weekend. I don't have the time at work, though.


St Fan: I have serious objections to the alleged Chickification and Faux Action Girl status of Yumi. As quoted from the Chickification page:

And from the Flanderization page:

It looks like to me we have textbook case of this kind of exaggeration here.

Lale: Yumi isn't accused of having girly tastes or acting too much like a girl. She just gets less and less time to shine as the series goes on. She doesn't go through a "geuinely hard time." She doesn't go into a Heroic BSOD because her parents die or something, which causes her to lose her mojo in battle. She just... gets more and more incompetent in combat, with no explanation, no acknowledgement. It's just taken for granted that she gets devirtualized first or causes the least amount of damage to monsters, and it happens more and more frequently as the series goes on. And the Designated Victim aspect is in nobody's imagination.

And if this was just Bad Writing, why does Aelita get more skilled in combat, which is acknowledged by the other characters? And if this is just overreaction, why does nobody accuse Aelita of being a Faux Action Girl in the earlier seasons? Because she wasn't supposed to be a warrior; it's obvious that Yumi was.

IMHO, this is a case of people thinking every example of tropes like Chickification is an exaggeration or Fan Wank. If we wanted to peg every girl who acts like a girl as a Faux Action Girl, Aelita would have been the first accused, not Yumi.

St Fan: I have recently watched the whole series... and as I see it, Yumi NEVER "gets more and more incompetent in combat, with no explanation, no acknowledgement". You're seeing things that aren't here. We would need a very specific statistic of every episode to show whether or not she get devirtualized more or kill less monsters as the show go on, but it without such specific statistics it is nowhere evident — and such Character Derailement is supposed to be obvious. In Season 4 she beats William at the very least 3 times... do the others even do as much?

I don't contest the Designated Victim aspect... though even the "Pick on Yumi Week" is a bit of fan exageration. This, however, has nothing to do with the Action Girl status. On the contrary, it shows that she goes through plenty hard times and survive.

The same way, Aelita getting more powerful as the show went on did nothing to reduce Yumi's status as an Action Girl. For that matter the position of The Chick in the Five-Man Band say nothing about her fighting prowess... The Chick is not necessarily the weakest fighter.

I see neither a Chickification or Faux Action Girl case in the whole series, but plainly a Flanderization of both tropes as explained by the quote above.

Curtmack: I think I see what Lale is talking about with Yumi becoming "less competent," but it also affects other characters. I think it's more XANA's minions becoming stronger as the series progresses. Leveled encounters, if you will.

As for Aelita, she's a genuine Distressed Damsel who was turned into a genuine Action Girl halfway through, and it shows. Heck, saying that she's improved is almost Lampshade Hanging.

St Fan: As mentionned quite justly in the Sorting Algorithm of Evil page, if XANA becomes more powerful as the series progress, the heroes also get more efficient at dealing with the monsters. And Yumi no less than the others. She might not be the strongest fighter (this is Ulrich, no doubt about it) but she isn't either the most often devirtualized (this honor goes to Odd, thanks to his tendency of rushing head-on to danger). Yumi has the better record fighting the Frelions, which are amongst the biggest pain on Lyoko. I've done some statistics, and if Yumi is less efficient at blasting monsters than the boys in Season 1, she gets much better in Season 2, far before Odd and almost level with Ulrich. That's why I don't see where the "Yumi getting worst" idea could come from. Season 3 and 4 are less representative, since the focus of the show change. William, in particular, makes devirtualizing the whole team a more common occurrence.


St Fan: Removed the following...

  • Spotting the Thread: When a doppleganger imitates Yumi and the two of them fight. Odd is able to choose the real one after she complements him since Yumi would never say that to him.

For these reasons:

  1. This example would fit more in Spot The Imposter than Spotting The Thread;
  2. Which episode was that? Not "Image Problem", since Odd didn't fight the Yumi clone there.


St Fan: Removed the following...

  • ... not to mention the obvious shift in styles between "real" and "virtual" worlds.

This isn't Art Shift but Medium Blending, and already mentioned.

  • But Not Too Foreign: Averted; save for Jérémie, all of the core Lyoko warriors are 100% foreign (Odd is American, Ulrich is German, and Yumi is Japanese); two of them met for the first time because they were too foreign.

References needed; except for Yumi, the character's nationalities aren't ever mentionned. That the others have foreign-sounding names is meaningless, they could still all be French.


Carth: I made kind of a big edit regarding certain projects related to the franchise, and I think it might be best to provide references here so it doesn't look like I'm spouting bull about the show. (If the changes themselves are irrelevant/inappropriately placed, go ahead and remove them, but I'm trying to be on the safe side.)

  • Garage Kids, TV Series: Well, duh
  • Comics: -6 through -2
  • Novel Series: Main website. Also, comments made by user "TB3" near the end of this thread are valid information about the novels.
  • MMORPG, Live-Action Series: This PDF (near the end)

Looks like I forgot the video games. Oh well.


St Fan: Just a short reference list for fun; to be completed.

Articles with Code Lyoko pictures: