Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Not sure if the creator of this page hated CAD, the thing really is mediocre and I can't realize it or what, but it seems CAD has gotten better, both in terms of depth and language/violence. The whole Winter-een-mas thing comes to mind. Both the stories (this year's was pretty nice, I think) and Ethan The Priest, for example.

Adam850: Yeah, I think that the page probably should have been written by someone who likes the comic.

Bob: There are people who like the comic?

Adam850: Well, enough people read it (ad revenue) and buy The Merch for Buckley to be self-supporting.

Drow Lord: Just started reading it recently, and really like it.

Bob: I wasn't serious about that question, but I forgot to make it a Take That! link. It should be clearer now.

Drow Lord: Ah, understood. Now, let's see here... done. A little more value-neutral (or whatever). Against my better judgment, I did save the previous page, so if I've made a false step and did something incredibly rude, it shouldn't be hard to revert. Changed The Ditz to Cloudcuckoolander, since it depends on whether one sees Ethan's idiocy as the result of bizarre thought processes or abject stupidity. Lilah is not a Shallow Female Love Interest; without Ethan, she still has a life. And I don't know how Flanderization fit in, Ethan's been see-sawing pretty constantly for years.

Drow Lord: seems I'm outnumbered. Screw it, then; I like the comic a lot, but fighting would be worthless.

Rogue 7: Another one who likes the comic, but is far too lazy to bother rewriting this. But seriously, come on people.

Bob: I'm totally innocent, I wouldn't touch this article with a ten-foot pole.

Drow Lord: That's the thing. I did rewrite it. Couple of people changed it back. Anyway, took out You Mean "Xmas", but put it back in. It doesn't really seem to fit with the spirit of that trope (since it's an in-story deliberately made-up holiday alongside Christmas), but eh.

HeartBurn Kid: Cut this Conversation in the Main Page:

  • I'm told that in person, he's actually very nice and gracious to his fans. But the internet persona and the person behind it are rarely the same.
  • Small Name? Hardly. He might not be the most important person, but he and his comic are pretty well known in the webcomic scene.

Besides which, Small Name, Big Ego was practically made for webcomic authors that get a swelled head. And Buckley's not a bigger name than John Byrne, who also made the list.

Vampire Buddha: I'm womeone else who likes it. I've rewritten the introduction to something I hope is more neutral. For posterity, here's what was there before:

Ctrl+Alt+Del is Snark Bait a comic strip starring a manchild named Ethan, his snarky roommate, the Patrick Warburton-esque Lucas, and other assorted characters. The comic began with Lampshade Hanging on the fact that they are, unoriginally, two gamers on a couch. Then Ethan reveals a third character: a melon with a face drawn on it. That's the extent of the comic's wit. Other characters in the cast include Ethan's gamer girlfriend Lilah, Zeke, a robot constructed out of an Xbox who burns with rage againt mankind, and Scott, who uses a Linux, but is otherwise extremely secretive. That's the extent of their personality.

GoodTimesFreeGrog: Boo! Bring the old description back!

Meta4: No it's reasonably even-handed as it is. (I don't like the comic either, but I say it's better to just say that lots of people like it and a very vocal group hates it, and to leave the actual Writer Bashing to John Solomon.) If we make it too negative, Jeff Buckley will come and remove the offending portions himself, and we don't want that, do we?

Loustar Jogger: I mean seriously. Why, just why, do so many people dislike this comic? Seriously. Just...seriously. Give me five good reasons why it would be deserving of all he hate it gets. Reading the Talk Page for The Other Wiki's CAD page, I've figured out the problem: Tim isn't the nicest guy around. You know what? I don't give a crap. You know who else isn't the nicest guy around? Reggie Fils-Aime. Does this make him bad at what he does? It may not make him the best at what he does. But it doesn't make him terrible. Also, B^U? Low quality art? *Achem?* El Goonish Shive's first comics? Order Of The Stick? xkcd? I mean really. Just because it's not Dominic Deegan-quality you have to take digs at it every chance? What's that I hear? It's not original? So? Tropes Are Not Bad, people? What ever happened to that? If this was the least bit funny, I'd call it Hypocritical Humor. But it's not. It's not funny at all. Not in the least. Not even remotely funny. So everyone who wants to bash CAD for no damn reason, JUST FUCKING LET IT GO!

Mc FS: Is the above a sarcastic rage at people who hate CAD, or real rage? Anyway, five reasons:
  • Bad art: It's copy-and-paste crap, with little deviation (excluding the recent Idiots In Space arc). Bad Art can be saved by good writing, as in Order of The Stick and XKCD, but...
  • Bad Writing: The characters are one-dimensional, with their lives revolving around the permanently 10-year-old Ethan. They'd survive without him, yes - so why do they put up with his constant idiocy? Not to mention a complete ignorance of the visual medium, using [[Walls of Text]] to explain things instead.
  • Art Theft: In several strips, the backgrounds are blurred pictures taken straight from Google Image Search with no credit at all.
  • Tim Buckley: Yes, the personality of the creator shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the product. But Buckley's personality is affecting the growth of the comic, ignoring any criticisms to the point of banning them from the forums and thinking his success means he can do no wrong, when in fact it just means his mistakes are all the more visible so perhaps he should learn from them. This leads into...
  • Stagnation: CAD has become a story comic, but very little about the characters have changed. Come back in five years, and Ethan will still be immature (and likely a father), Lilah will still be supporting him financially and sarcastically ignoring his wacky (dangerous) antics, and Lucas will still be friends with him for no reason but shared nerdy interests. Yes, this kind of flat characterization thing is OK if you're a Gag-A-Day comic like Penny Arcade, but if you're going to devote long arcs to changing the situation the character is in, you need to think about why the characters would, say, get married when one of them spends all of their meager wage on Video Games, much to the chagrin of the other character.

Minion Of Cthulhu: There are quite a few reasons why Ctrl Alt Del is a bad comic.

Yes, Tropes Are Not Bad, but that doesn't mean removing all criticisms either. At the moment, I'd say the entry is pretty neutral, describing why people dislike it (Bad Art, lazy writing, Tim Buckley) and why people like it (Simple jokes, consistent updating, video gaming). I will also say I'm neutral on CAD - it has reasons to hate it, but if people like it despite those reasons I'm not going stop them. It's just CAD has potential to be better, but it squanders it to be what it is.

Loustar Jogger: I have no sarcastic rage. And it's not at all the people who hate it for, like, a good reason. I understand. But if you hate it just because someone else hates it? I got two words: bugger, off.

Geese: I think a lot of the reason people hold Tim against the comic is that he states openly in the FAQ that Ethan is based on himself and that Lucas is based on a friend of his. Random Comedic Sociopathy? Sure. A stated-as-such (seriously, check the section!) Marty Stu getting a standing ovation from a random crowd for his coronation as King of Purer Gaming as Unfettered by Commercialism? The Marty Stu getting a nerdalicious girlfriend based on No Actual Person, but Tim's Fantasies who loves him no matter what he does or says or contributes or conveys even the remotest attractive quality and, really, let's be honest, lives only to fulfill Tim's Fantasies About Having a Nerdy Girlfriend? I mean, people eat up Salvatore and once upon a time loved Greenwood, too, so it's no indication of anything, but when the guy that seems to do a lot of pissing people off is loved and adored in-comic for about the same behavior?

Atlas Shrugged, for another example: criticisms based on Ayn Rand being a terrible person are much more legitimate because the content of her character is actually relevant to the book, because it's an Author Tract. EarthBound does not suffer the same problem.

Loustar Jogger: EarthBound is Reggie Fils-Aime's most hated game, with is why he, time and time again, refuses to let those who love it, enjoy it. You wouldn't understand unless you know the whole backstory. Or who Reggie is in the first place.

Geese: Oh, okay. I'm glad that's been cleared up for me.

Also, if it's not too much to ask, could I get a sample of your brain tissue? I've never, ever seen anybody fly into a Hulk Rage defending Ctrl-Alt-Del before. The best defense I've seen so far was a very well-constructed and supported "it's the online equivalent of Garfield", but that was done pretty calmly.

Rogue 7: OK, come on. Marty Stu and Strawman Political? Are you kidding? Ethan is psychotic and certifiably insane. Those traits do not a Marty Stu make. And any Strawman Politicals are inevitably played for laughs (whether or not you find it funny is something different, but that's beside the point)- I read the comic, and there's nothing like that. You're just reaching for something to hate here, and it comes across as really petty. Grow up.

Geese: Dude, I'm not writing anything that the author hasn't already said. Ethan is an admitted self-insert who has all sorts of kickass but completely inexplicable things happen to him, and has a very, very nice life despite being, well, certifiably insane. The Strawman Political is played for laughs, but is present nevertheless. Remember how Tropes Are Not Bad?

Hell, while we're on the subject, let's mention the protagonists of Atlas Shrugged. Absolute textbook case of Sue and Stu, and in many ways just a mouthpiece for Objectivism. How much has the book grossed? How respected is it in the world of philosophy? Or anything starring Elminster. How many books on that line have been sold? Or, to go beyond the impossible (and include a series I like, so it isn't just Writer Bashing), Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, with Nia. Mary Sue in nearly every respect, and probably intentional, and it worked anyway.

Marty Stu and his counterparts get a hell of a lot of baggage attached to them (largely from fanfic, I think), but self-insert wish-fulfillment characters have a long and storied history of being remarkably popular. Ethan is almost certainly both.

Peteman: I think the part where the religions of the world ganged up on Ethan's was a bit in bad taste. I don't care if it was played for laughs, I didn't find it funny.

Rogue 7: Marty Stu is a protagonist who is perfect at just about anything by the definition of a trope. Ethan is a certifiable moron whose actions often land him in a crapload of trouble. A self-insert is not, by definition, a Marty Stu. It often is, but it's not necessarily the case. I don't think that you can make a case for Ethan being a Marty Stu at all.

Geese: Mhm. The key of that trope isn't necessarily perfection (though that's an excellent way to achieve it), but wish fulfillment. Now, a lot of authors wish they could be perfect, defeat the badguys and look totally awesome doing it while impressing the girl, having everything they do be completely, unequivocally right and having fame and the adoration of everyone... or at least the demographic they give a damn about. Plus be witty and clever on top of that.

The only things there missing from Ethan is that you have to put almost everything in page quotes. Note that Buckley seems to hold non-gamers in contempt, so all-out fame would probably be a bad thing to him. Ethan is more wish-fulfillment in terms of "freedom" than "awesome," which matches a demographic overdosed on "awesome" very well. He doesn't lose his job if he mouths off to paying customers, he does next to nothing but goof off, commits felonies, spends all his rent money on video games and somehow, he walks away clean from it all. Who doesn't wish they could pull crap like that and get away with it with a slap on the wrist? There's no trope for a protagonist Karma Houdini, but it seems to pop up enough in correlation with the Marty Stu that I think their natures are, if not the same, then frighteningly similar.

Now, you probably aren't finding this very convincing, but the idea that there's no case to be made is pretty generous.

Loustar Jogger: *Clears throat* Actually, I apologize for this whole mess. I didn't mean to fly into the Rant-Inducing Slight thingy, and I probably wouldn't have reacted like that if it was any other day. I was pretty pissed off at school that day, so I ended up blowing up at you guys. That being said, I still think that most people who hate the comic (especially here) hate it because the majority of the internet hates it, in other words, they just jumped on a hate bandwagon. I just started reading the comic because most people hate it. I know there's a trope on here for that...hype...something. Hype Backlash, but backwards from how it normally is. So, now that I've made almonds (terrible pun) amends and stated my position clearly and calmly, no hard feelings? Also, on the topic of Garfield: I've read the comic since I could read. I don't think it's gotten any worse. It wasn't laugh-out-loud funny in 1998, but it still was funny.

Geese: Heh, no worries. I know how that can go, it was just a surprise to see that kind of reaction.

And I've got nothing against Garfield and not a terrible lot against CAD, honestly; much of the gist of the comparison was that it isn't sheer unmitigated brilliance, but just a low-maintainance, very consistent, highly accessible and well-marketed strip, to entertainment much like a meal at Mc Donald's is to lunch. Except for the Garfield movie and, consequently, the CAD animated series. Those can both go to hell. :D

Loustar Jogger: Your CAD-to-Mc Donald's analogy is the best one ever devised. I applaud you.

German Troper: Even for me, who has been a loyal fan of CAD even through the "pregnancy" storyline, the most recent strip featuring Lilah having a miscarriage now actually places this story in Jump the Shark and Narm territorry.

Large Blunt Object: thatother1dude, stop pulling the commentary. It's true, whether you like it or not.

Air Of Mystery: No, it's a goddamn opinion. (Opinion may be truth. No, we're not getting into that.) Either way, is there some way we can spoilerfy "Convenient Miscarriage"? Obviously it's pointless to do so in its current form (as you'd find out what it was by just hovering the mouse over) but some people who read the comic might not want to be spoilered.

Large Blunt Object: Convenient Miscarriage, that does need spoilering. (I didn't put that in.) But removing the B^U comment (which is a widely known Fan Nickname) and the picture showing it speaks of pigheaded fanboyishness. Ditto the Lilah comment. She is the Gamer Chick played completely straight. Why is that pulled? Again, only reason to pull it is if you're a fanboy who hates perceived insults to your favourite comic.

Air Of Mystery: Incidentally, I'd just like to say that Tim Buckley was criticised for starting a charity. Sure, probably for his own nefarious reasons, but he was criticised for starting a charity. Flawed as he is, the internet is often not entirely fair on him.

Charred Knight: He started a charity to inflate his own ego. Who the fuck starts a charity to appease their massive ego? What kind of pathetic human being do you have to be to get so jealous of Tycho and Gabe that you start a charity to copy them, and try to steal some of their thunder from two guys who started their charity out of compassion.

Large Blunt Object: What he said. It was a disgustingly obvious case of Follow the Leader and it folded as soon as Buckley realised it took time and effort and wasn't getting him any more fanboys. Try and find information on how much good Tim Buckley's charity has done for the world. I couldn't.

goodtimesfreegrog: On behalf of the Convenient Miscarriage page, can anyone confirm if there's any reason or rhyme to the explaination as to WHY exactly she miscarried? Something to do with her blood type and her fetus being seen as a foreign object...

Rogue 7: I'm gradually growing more disillusioned with this comic, especially the "pregnancy" bit. Fundamentally, it's the plot reaper. Ethan can not, should not be a dad. Buckley realizes this, hence Convenient Miscarriage. This is a completely textbook example of the trope. I'm fairly sure that the explanation given is pure bull.

Large Blunt Object: Oh good, now you've worked out the comic read up on what a tremendous narcissist Buckley is.

Bryndon: Do we really need to spoiler-tag the Convenient Miscarriage? It's just that when I first read the comic, I thought "yeah, that's not going to last", and Convenient Miscarriage is a trope [i]because[/i] it's recognisable. Thus, I don't think it's right to pretend like it's somehow a big secret.

goodtimesfreegrog: Looks like the miscarriage storyline's all but abandoned not only could he not make a decent turn for drama, he couldn't keep it up for five whole comics. Awesome.

Space Ace: This entire page pretty much points out what's not to like about CAD. IMHO, the old description was fine. All this babble about "neutrality" is just a sycophant fanboy excuse for changing the original article. What are we? The Other Wiki?

Also, adding Cerebus Syndrome. Because it shows all the signs, and it's just plain true.

Large Blunt Object: Disagree with Cerebus Syndrome - it more or less started with arcs, continuity etc, there wasn't much of a transition. Would have left Drama Bomb in if it were an actual trope.

Space Ace: But there is a drop of quality somewhere in that comic. At least, I used to read it, then I stopped. It definitely got worse and more drama-oriented, and I feel Cerebus Syndrome is justified, although there might be a better option. As for Drama Bomb, I will have a look over the existing tropes and see if we already have something like it.

Large Blunt Object: "Worse"... imo, the comic hasn't seem to have changed in overall quality since the beginning (which is a pretty good measure of the comic's absolute crappiness on its own). Perhaps, just perhaps more drama-oriented. After consideration, I'm... undecided. :D I won't put Cerebus back in, but if you seriously think it should be there, I won't pull it again. (Now, if the goddamn war over Cerebus/First and Ten wasn't going with the lumpers at the moment...)

Space Ace: Thing is, stand-alone gags don't exist anymore, where they used to before (concerning the main characters, at least). And while it never really was funny, it did attempt to be. But that comic, with Ethan putting away the tiny 360 controller. That's not just in Narm territory, that's bombing the capital and setting up a puppet government.

And another good case for a Drama Bomb entry.

Large Blunt Object: "That's not just in Narm territory, that's bombing the capital and setting up a puppet government."
Fwahahaha, if you put that in the entry, I'm DEFINITELY giving you a Made of Win for it.

Space Ace: It is alive! ALIVE!

Large Blunt Object: Huh? No YKTTW? No linking up or more than one example?

...whatever, it's still a good line.

Space Ace: I might be good, but I'm not a god.

Air Of Mystery: Look, persons in general, we have Subjective Tropes for a reason, not to mention Narm and Wall Banger. Some people do like CAD, and I don't think we should lock them out of the loop for liking something. That's why we try to be at least a little neutral and not incredibly biased about things. A lot of people don't like CAD, but why are they any more right than the people who do? (Remember, subjective!)

Rebochan: I put Cerebus Syndrome back up because in the aftermath of the miscarriage plot, Ethan's marriage was cancelled, his job was bought out by Lilah's old boyfriend for the express purpose of torturing him, Lilah has lost her tolerance for his usual stupidity and is now regularly and seriously coming down on him, Zeke had his head smashed in, Lucas was cheated on by Kate...come on, if that's not Cerebus Syndrome, I don't know what is.

Clendy82: Just based on reading the Cerebus Syndrome description, I don't think that it fits in this case. Cerebus Syndrome fits if the comic/medium shifts permanently from a lighthearted to a dramatic or serious tone. As it stands, the pregnancy arc is just that; a story arc that the characters experienced, lived through, and moved on from. True, it's probably not what people expected when they logged on for their daily updates, but it's not as if the characters are now living in a Crapsack World. After all, Ethan just inherited the gameshop and got married in Jamaica! I'd say things are looking up.

Rebochan: I took all the spoiler tags off because, honestly, You Should Know This Already.

Air Of Mystery: Golly, shall I take all the spoiler tags off Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog because I happen to not like it? No, because I respect that people have different opinions to mine. The tags go back in.

Rebochan: I'm sorry, it's right up there with "IT'S A SLED!" and "SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!" There's no point in spoiler tagging it because it's been trumpeted across the internet ever since the strip ran. It'd be like spoiler tagging the Dominic Deegan rape storyline - what would be the point?

Air Of Mystery: We spoiler Twilight, we spoiler this.

That Guy: Agreeing with Rebochan. Enough people know of it that we can leave it uncensored.

Air Of Mystery: To avoid an edit war, I'll concede. Nevertheless, bite me.

Rebochan: Thanks for the maturity! I took the spoilers off again.
Charred Knight: I deleted the Maybe from Wallbanger because NOBODY liked the Convenient Miscarriage, and because it constantly being made fun of. I also deleted the mention of a Wham Episode because the Convenient Misccarriage didn't change a thing, no mention of it is made in the latest comic, and it didn't cause a Cerebus Syndrome. Tim Buckley is just not a good enough writer and doesn't have the balls to create an actual Wham Episode. It would involve him radically changing the dynamic of the comic, and its clear Buckley is happy enough with the Status Quo.

rebochan: Not that I like where the comic went either, but I can't help noticing that Buckley can simply never win with most people - if he actually attempts something dramatic (which was a failure, but nonetheless) he's accused of Cerebus Syndrome. If he keeps the comic at Status Quo, he's a hack that can't do anything else.

Seriously, it's like Ctrl Alt Del raped the internet at some point. I seriously do not get the level of hatred toward a comimc that up until the Convenient Miscarriage was mediocre at worst. And even after that wretched plotline, its still just mediocre.

That Guy: That's because it IS Cerebus Syndrome. He goes from gag-a-day to a serious storyline. If that ain't Cerebus Syndrome, I don't know what is. Tropes Are Not Bad, remember.

Large Blunt Object: What level of hatred? There aren't really all that many frothing anti-fans around, just a very large number of people who'll say something less than complimentary about it if asked. CAD never raped the internet (though Buckley-being-a-paedophile incident might have counted...), it's just a downright bad comic that somehow lucked out and made it to the very top, and both it and the creator are very easy to mock. Most of us "bashers" don't hate it, just hold it in contempt. The comic is shit and Buckley's a douche. That's enough for it to get treated badly.

some anonymous driveby: What level of hatred? Case in point. ;)

Large Blunt Object: If you can't see the difference between hatred and contempt, you're retarded.

Rebochan: Please explain, I'm having trouble telling the difference, what with the insulting of other tropers going on here. Way to make a strong argument!

Large Blunt Object: is right there. While you're at it, look up "witty" and see where you went wrong.

Rebochan: If you have to tell someone they're retarded to make it work, then the problem is with you.

Charred Knight: Mediocre at worst? The Miscarriage arc was horrible. Buckley can not do straight drama since he can barely do comedy. The scene with the controller? One of the stupidest things I have ever saw.

Rebochan: I did make that comment before the comic flew into full Cerebus Syndrome 24/7. I thought maybe it could recover...then all of a sudden it went through some kind of dramatic pileup on top of that one spectacularly stupid plot idea and it all just went to crap. Still doesn't explain how personally people take it, though. Then again, I say that and isn't Dominic Deegan the Internet's other bitch in the webcomic realm? I'd say Dominic Deegan was worse, but I never quite saw the appeal of that one in the first place, so I'm a crappy judge.
Penny Arcade was started around the time he started CAD, and neither heard anything about each other.
goodtimesfreegrog: lolwut? PA started in late '98, CAD's first strip came out in late '02. That's nearly four years apart. Not deleting it, however, since there's wiki fun to be had with it.
Cue: I'm tempted to add a confirming edit to Jumping the Shark, as it seems that with the beta couple falling apart and the change in management at Ethan's job, a pretty firm post-Jump status quo is being set in order. Should we wait until this new storyline reaches a conclusion, or add what could be a speculation?
Charred Knight: For the love of god, can anyone give me ONE LINK TO A PERSON WHO LIKED the miscarrage storyline? Just one, Yahtzee described it as the author having a brain aneurysm, and Tycho compared it to the first horseman of the apocalypse.

Large Blunt Object: ...that "(possibly imaginary)" edit was utterly hilarious. From the context (found here for anyone about to start trawling through PA newsposts), I'm pretty certain Tycho meant it as a joke, but still...

Morgan Wick: There may have been people at the now-basically-nonexistent-last-time-I-checked CAD forums who liked it...

Rebochan: As I just learned the hard way, the threads over there are positive because you will get banned for criticizing a storyline., there were still people over there that liked it anyway.

Clendy82: All right. If I actually got around to making a profile page, I'm sure it would be flooded with rage because of this, but I'll take the plunge and be Tim's apologist. No, I can't say that the storyline fit very well with the genre of the webcomic as a whole, but yes, I did enjoy the attempt at some kind of drama and character development. Like I posted on the article page, after five or six years of constant updates, I figure that he's entitled to a chance at some storyline experimentation. Maybe we're not giving him enough credit; maybe he is trying to branch out and expand his dramatic horizons. He might not be all that good at it right now, but I do appreciate the effort.

I would think that any charges that could be laid at Tim's feet could be lain at the feet of several other A-list webcomic creators. For instance, I could suggest that Penny Arcade is a holier-than-thou, if-you-can't-understand-the-reference-then-you-don't-deserve-to-read-me comic with Negative Continuity. Or that Brian Clevinger treats his fans like the Joker treats his victims ("Haha, it's funny that he threw a fake Gainax Ending into his comic. Look at all his fans squirm...gosh, I'd hate if that happened to a comic I read"). I generally make it a point to stay away from webcomic forum sites; I get the impression that all they generally discuss is the webcomic, plans for the webcomic, favorite scenes from the webcomic, etc., so I can't really comment on any of the above folks' personalities. I just go by their works. From what I see, half of the complaints up above come from tropers complaining about the author himself, rather than his product. Tim might be a righteous prick in his forums, but he's professional enough not to let his You Suck messages cross over into his comics. In the grand scheme of things, I think that the miscarriage storyline will fade into memory as an experiment gone awry. And it's not as if it was the end, either. It takes nothing away from the past six years of not-always-brilliant-but-usually-pretty-good comics or the comics yet to come.

Let the flaming commence. Happy Winter-een-mas!
Bob: Should we split the examples section into two parts: regular tropes and Hatedom tropes? I think that it would solve some of the problems the article has.

Johnny E: I was just thinking exactly this, the hating is funny but it gets very boring very fast (or to put it in terms people will understand, "the transition from outright bashing to a description of a trope actually present in the strip provides a Mood Whiplash Tim Buckley would be proud of"). Any precedent for splitting an article into "Subjective tropes" and, I don't know, "Content tropes" or something along those lines?
Hydrowolfy: Hey would this [1] be a better example of wall of text. It seems to me to better illustrate just how bad he can get.

Rebochan: I'm sorry, I'm too busy seething with rage over Lilah taking the entire blame for all the problems in their relationship and Ethan being rewarded for being upright and verbal. But blocking out the crappy plot twists then yes, yes that's a great example of this being carried to a ridiculous extreme.

Wild-card: Look, people. I don't like Ctl Alt Del but this page needs to a bit more neutral as it does indeed have an existing fan-base that like it, (On this site as well) and it's pretty obvious that quite a few people here are Fan Haters. I don't think it deserves the praise it gets on the forums, and yes Buckley is an idiotic narssasicst but a Flame War over the issue is completly unnecessary! If it has netraulity we can atleast get this discussion page a bit less angry, with Tropers fighting other Tropers, unknowns coming in and being insulted by a Troper who should know better etc....

Janitor: Moving in some discussion that was misfiled...
  • A while ago now, this troper sent an email to Tim Buckley about, ironically, how the quality of his strip had increased over the last few comics. I also made a joke about the naked Ethan present in the then current strip. Possibly because I'd insinuated his comic hadn't been that funny recently, the response I got was "TAKE YOUR HOMOPHOBIC SHIT ELSEWHER" (sic). To add to the irony, this troper is openly bisexual.
    • Yeah, Buckley is a prick. Constantly. A really fun thing to do is to read the forums before a "dramatic event" (ha ha drama in this comic no way). Then the next day, when all is dramatically revealed, see how many people go "OMG TIM NOBODY SAW THAT COMING." I bet you ten dollars you did, in fact, see that coming. Hi-larious.
  • This troper, during the "Ethan Has Robot Hands" arc, sent a picture to Buckley. This picture was a snapshot of the strip where Lucas was going to saw off the robot gloves with a very obvious screw in the shot. I circled it and wrote 'Drill at this point for great justice.' No response ever.

Mr Wednesday: Is there actually any evidence for Thrindel and Buckley being one and the same? I know Thrindel seems to obsess over the CAD Wikipedia page a bit, but there are stranger kinks on the interwebs.
  • Someguy: My understanding is that Thrindel frequently updates the Wikipedia CAD article with informations only Buckley could have known at the time. That, and there is also a screenshot of him responding to a personal question relating to Buckley, but I can't find it currently.
  • Rebochan: It's much simpler than that, he got out by someone running his IP through Wiki Scanner and comparing it to Thrindel, which led to a match. Of course, the "someone" was also Scott Kurtz, so take that as you will.
  • KiTA: In addition, if you vandalize the Thrindel Talk page on Wikipedia, you are IP banned from the CAD forums. Encyclopedia Dramatica (NSFW) has more information, but again, it's ED, so... Yeah.

Worlder: It is strange I like something then discover everyone else hates it. First it was [[4Kids Entertainment]], now Tim Buckley's comic. I tried to ask others on the CAD forum if this was true and I got an account ban. Too be frank, I did take my own personal schmuck bait by asking such a question. I knew it might result in this but I just had to do it to see if it was true. Also there is this CAD forum rule,

"Drama from other forums, IRC channels, list serves, etc are not allowed here. Whenever people are getting together and have issues it needs to stay out of here. This is to avoid the drama from spilling on to ours. Past experience show when that happens it causes bullshit we don't need."

Vague just vague enough to block... ahem... the fan haters. Oh Tim you would only bury your hatchet after the rest of the Internet has buried theirs. But the Internet wants you to bury your hatchet first. So neither of you are going to bury them hatchets.

PS: Those forums operate on Lawful Evil. You don't mess with Tim. He won't mess with you. I messed with him. time=1230764968

Peteman: I don't think Christian counts for Strawman Has a Point, since it was never his intention to run the store, and he was trying to get Lilah through manipulations. Neither are good for her.

Peteman: Anyone want to nominate Ethan for a Kick the Dog (at least from the Hatedom's POV) over this whole Rory thing? While Ethan may have legitimate grievances, considering the things he's done, it seems outright hypocritical of him to be so overwhelmingly bitter.

Ironlenny: Would it be possible to add a link to the "Famous Hatedom Comic" in the Strawman Has a Point section?