Working Title: Zero Punctuation: From YKTTW
: Removed the following from the article because it is a mischaracterization:
- He has since admitted to not even having played Halo before bashing it - and the gamers who play them.
No, he didn't. He did admit to never having played the original
Halo, but he never claimed to have bashed it without playing it. And anyways, an admission from a comedian's work as a comedian doesn't really count. Imagine how horribly sick a bunch comedians would be if everything they said was true. (I'm sure someone else could provide examples, but I'm too tired.)
: You're sure? I seem to recall him hitting Halo
(and its fanboys) more than once before his review of Halo III
...yes, yes he definitely did bash it (and invite viewers to defend companies who didn't care about them, or something to that effect) and its players. I'm afraid I don't understand the second half of your post. "Imagine horribly sick"?
: Sorry. I left out a word up there. I fixed it. The point, to me, is that ZP is really a comedian first, reviewer second, thus you don't need to believe everything he says. But the Halo thing does turn out to be a good point. I mentioned it in the ZP forums, and I got more information. It seems to me that Yahtzee is more against Halo fanboys than the game itself, and, if I'm right, it be nice if the above were reworded to that effect before putting it back in.
I also brought this up with Yahtzee himself, as this seems to be a big sticking point for people who don't like his reviews. I haven't gotten a response yet, but he's surprisingly good at responding to stuff like this.
: This bit is a mischaracterization, too:
In his own words:
- Though given his having held up older Black Isle games (like the amazingly dialogue-y Planescape: Torment) as examples of RPGs done right in his review of Mass Effect, it's more that he hates large amounts of non-interactive dialogue.
- I did my usual cursory glance over notable forum threads to get my feedback and it seems some people on one forum that shall remain nameless have been calling me a hypocrite for apparently liking Planescape Torment despite it, too, being a monstrously wordy game. My response: where the hell did you get the impression that I liked Planescape Torment? That, too, I found boring and couldn't get further than the first world. I'm not angry, I'm just confused as to how you made this leap of logic. Admittedly I did show the box art for, like, one second to illustrate a point but I don't remember drawing a big sign over it saying THIS GAME IS AWESOME MMM I WANT IT TO SPUNK IN MY FACE.
: You know I'm not sure I think this page over-estimates his writing skills a tad. I read one of the webcomics he made and it was pretty gut-wrenchingly awful.
My friend found his short stories equally dire. I think he's a creative person who finally found a medium that works for him rather than a literary wonderboy.
: Sorry about butting in line. Anyways, I agree with you somewhat. His stories weren't that great. However, I think he had at least one other medium where he shone: Adventure Games
. Most of the games he's created are pretty cool. Anyways, feel free to de-FanGirl
the article if you think it's appropriate. I'm too biased, as I'm a bit of a fanboy
: No problem. I changed your line about him being "well respected" to "respected" because you can't be "well respected" if hardly anyone even knows who you are. "I've also changed "exceptional writing skills" to "sense of humor." Other than though, I think I'll leave it alone for now.
: I'd like to take a moment to say that the incessant cocksucking for this guy on this site is becoming extremely
irritating. Not every video game tropes needs to be headlined by his words of wisdom — some of these quotes are very
borderline in terms of relevance.
: Any quotes in particular that stand out as borderline?
Large Blunt Object
: Yeah, I haven't seen any that don't work just fine...
: On a quick glance over, at least the ones for Console Wars
and Copy-and-Paste Environments
aren't particularly well connected to their tropes (The Console Wars
one is from
his console wars episode, but doesn't really encapsulate much of nature of those wars, and the Copy-and-Paste Environments
quote is talking about visual design where the trope seems to be mainly about layout design.)
Large Blunt Object
: I'll concede Console Wars
has little actual content and isn't really covered under Rule of Funny
(imo, of course). Copy-and-Paste Environments
, though, reads to me as though it's talking about repetitive levels in general, and fits really well.
(later) Posted on the Console Wars
talk that an objection's been raised, see if anyone responds to that. It seems a few of the less accurate ZP quotes have been removed from their pages anyway - hail to the Wiki Magic
(later still) Yeah, when I said "hail to the Wiki Magic
", I didn't actually mean "anonymously removing about a third of the quotes for the win", whatever tard did that. (Admittedly, quite a few of them genuinely sucked, but it's good form to at least ask
: I undid some of the more stupid ones. Snark Bait
Large Blunt Object
: +1 Internet to you, sir.
(later) Restored Improbable Aiming Skills
(appropriate and very, very funny), Real Is Brown
, Inherently Funny Words
and Playing Tennis with the Boss
(appropriate and funny); left the removal of Lawful Stupid, Chaotic Stupid
and Hype Backlash
(not funny) and In Case You Forgot Who Wrote It
(the quote's been lost in the page history), and this is getting annoying
, not just because I hate anonymous SingleIssueWonks
but because the blasted anon can't lump all their edits together and has to spam the page history.
: Restored Inherently Funny Words again
. There's definitely a Single-Issue Wonk
after the Yahtzee quotes.
Concordat: Is it worth noting that before he was hired by The Escapist, he was emailed by Peter Molyneux (responsible for Fable) complimenting him on his review of the game? He revealed this in a thread on the Something Awful forums named "holy shit, peter molyneux emailed me"
Large Blunt Object
: Well, There Is No Such Thing as Notability
; take that however you like.
: Moved quote down. Too long for an opener.
: How about as a sidebar?
Large Blunt Object
: Random Yahtzee-bashings and irrelevant nonsense from randomers with axes to grind are every bit as annoying and tiresome as wank from Yahtzee fanboys. 18.104.22.168 and thatother1dude, I'm looking at you.
: Couldn't tell what "that page" was referring to...
Large Blunt Object
- Visual Pun: He even lampshaded it when he came up with an exceptionally lame one, as the image on that page shows.
: That would be the Visual Pun
page. Clarified, though now it feels like Department of Redundancy Department
Korgmeister: I'm putting it here because it would count as natter, but Yahtzee's negative attitude towards Americans isn't fan service (at least not intentionally). I knew the guy back when he was just a regular at the HOTU forums and if anything his opinions about politics and Americans are quite restrained compared to back then.
(from No Export For You Discussion)
: Cut yet another Yahtzee quote. Let me put this as delicately as possible. The guy is a critic
. He gets liquored up and cusses about stuff he doesn't like. Couldn't create anything cool himself, so he's going to inflict his mouth on everyone who can.
: What, did a critic kill your father? I'm pretty sure a guy whose entire gimmick is based on be able to say things really quickly and precisely isn't going to get drunk beforehand. I am
pretty sick of seeing his quotes though.
: Zero Punctuation
has reached Yu-Gi-Oh The Abridged Series
levels of Newly-Popular Updating
. Maybe this is elitist of me, but it annoys me when a trope that's been around for awhile finds itself headed by a quote that's less than a month old and which is frequently of questionable relevance. (It gives the wrong impression.) The wiki isn't a shrine for people to express their devotion to Yahtzee.
As for this quote, Yahtzee's an idiot if he thinks Mother 3
would outsell a new Mario Kart
installment in the west. The Mother
games might be great, but they're a niche market, and making the "My tastes are shared by everyone!" mistake is one of the classic blunders.
: Seriously, Fast Eddie
, that's pretty unkind of you. That said, yeah, too may Yahtzee quotes lately.
: If SCEA requires an English voice track, how did Trapt and Mega Man X6 get away with just having the original voices and no dub? Granted, most of the voice acting for MMX 6 got removed in the collection but still...
- Arutema: SCEA adopted that policy after X6, but before the collection, forcing removal of the voices.
: Eddie, you're getting into "Lets See YOU Do Better
" territory there (Whenever an ordinary fan calls out another person to try their hand at something (making a film, creating a videogame, or writing a book) before criticizing it, that person has lost the argument.
may not like it, but for all its exaggerations it's still entertaining to plenty of others.
: Eddie, Eddie, Eddie... you're right about too much Yahtzee, but everybody's
a critic here. Especially everybody who's ever contributed to So Bad, It's Good
or So Bad, It's Horrible
: Yahtzee is a critic but at the same time, I don't think the guy is even 100% serious in all of his ranting and raving. He just takes everything he hates about a game and blows it out of porportion because that's his "character." His so called reviews should be taken with a grain of salt and a good laugh.
: Well, that annoys me too — taking someone pouring hate onto something and saying, "Well, they don't really mean
it, so it's okay".
: Huh. I thought most people here were fans, rather than critics. A fan being a person with critical faculties who also actually likes
something. Anyway. Looks like a moratorium on Yahtzee quotes has some support.
: Just as a note, Croshaw/Yahtzee has
written and designed upwards of half a dozen adventure games. Haven't played them myself, don't know how good they are, but "couldn't create anything cool himself" is at least half wrong (and the other half is a matter of taste). That said, page quotes from his stuff are past the point of being overused. I wouldn't support a moratorium on them (too much top-down editorial control inherent there for my taste), but a nice pruning of the ones that are only tangentially relevant is a different story.
: Fast Eddie
, you're right, everybody here is a fan. But I'm pretty sure that everybody here has posted at least one negative thing on this site (in fact, go read So Bad, It's Horrible
), and that makes us critics too. And Yahtzee has said positive things about games on occasion — watch his No More Heroes
review for one example.
Large Blunt Object
: You're going to discount the entire idea
of criticism? I know 4chan slang is... kind of looked down upon here, but - butthurt much? Critic doesn’t even mean someone who says mean things, it means “reasoned analysis”. You’re going to straight discount every movie or game or book critic, everyone who ever judged something? Lets See YOU Do Better
is an inherently stupid argument. I don’t need to be a chef to say when something tastes foul. Yahtzee doesn’t need to be a games designer (oh, but he is!) to call games crap, and the validity of a quote has nothing to do with the source.
The sudden backlash against Yahtzee’s inexplicable “New Big Thing For Quotes” status is going too far the other side. A lot (doubtless less than we have here, but a lot) of what the guy says is
both quotable and relevant. The criteria for a page quote should be relevance and funniness. If a Yahtzee quote is pulled simply for being a Yahtzee quote... then there’s a problem.
: It may be that Fast Eddie
just doesn't like the guy. Admins sometimes have opinions, being human and all. A lot of the Yahtzee quotes seem to indicate a person who is in love with the sound of his own sarcasm, is my personal take. Certainly, brief and relevant quotes
can work. It might be nice if the quote is interesting for something other than its Beavis and Butthead
use of f-bombs.
Large Blunt Object
: Since when was personal preference adequate justification for an edit? Removing a quote for being bad is one thing, removing it just because you don't like the guy who said it is another.
: Well, as far as I can tell, the quote was removed because it was bad. The fact that the guy sucks was entirely a side issue.
: Just for the record, the quote in question below.
Oh, and thanks Nintendo for putting in a character from
Mother 3, a game you're never going to fucking release outside of Japan, despite the fact that I can fucking guarantee that more people would play it than Mario Kart Eleventy-Billion: The Next Generation.
on Super Smash Bros.. Brawl 
: I love Yahtzee, and that still sounds like someone having sex with his own sarcasm and posting pics on unappreciative forums.
Large Blunt Object
- Yahtzee's Mean Brit side comes out especially on the subject of Americans, as he strongly believes that the United States is Eagleland Flavor #2. While it could be a form of Fanservice considering how many people view Americans that way (see his reviews on both Medal of Honor: Airborne and Call of Duty 4, then see the fan responses), his beliefs about Americans and their country are clearly apparent in some of his writings on his site Fully Ramblomatic before he even started Zero Punctuation, taking the same nastygram tone as the aforementioned reviews.
- During a trip to Valve Corporation, creators of Half Life and Portal, he almost decided that Americans aren't so bad. However, upon seeing Burger King's menu of Medium, Large and Extra Large at the airport, he quickly returned to his previous opinions.
bawww, flamebait and more bawww, and threadmoding your own examples
? What the hell?
The examples—provided by me and one other troper—were swept under the rug with no explanation by an anonymous editor! One you complained about!
That's why I reinstated both of them!
If you're going to mock people while removing examples, then I'll just revise the information and add it back to the article. Sorry, but I don't think obnoxiously mocking other tropers
with "BAWWWWWWWWW MORE BAWWWWWWWWW" is a good reason to remove an example of a trope, especially
one that had to be reinstated after removal by one of the editors you were complaining about previously.
It just makes you
look like a Jerkass
of a Troper.
Large Blunt Object
: ...Feh, hell with having another
argument over ZP. As it is now? Yeah, leave it, but try and bear in mind that the dude is a comedian
, and his gimmick, however obnoxious, is to tear the shit out of everything in a way his intended audience will find funny. Two paragraph bawwwing about how mean Yahtzee is, taking everything he's said completely at face value? Unnecessary and annoying as all hell.
: I think they want the ZP video where he says this, not the parody that incurred it (I remember seeing that, but not particularly which one)
: Yahtzee appears to be a troper. We may want to keep the trolling of him to a minimum, lest we scare off someone who might actually get us some more users. (I'm referring to the fact that he referenced They Changed It, Now It Sucks
in the title of one of his blog posts, FYI)
: Good point.
Yahtzee, is that you, you bilious, bloviating bag of batshit? Would it kill you to give another site a reach-around link once in awhile? It turns out one or two members of your audience can actually read. It might give them something to do while you are out scoring meth.
There. That should make him feel welcome.
: Dude, I know you're an admin and you don't like the guy, but there's no need for that.
: That's probably exactly what we need for a shout out from him.
Pteryx: @Kini: Didn't quite catch the gag, did you?
That Other 1 Dude
, how the hell do you do that thing where the "noooooo.." runs off the page?
: Every time I see the quote on Franchise Zombie
, I want to take it down. Devil May Cry 4
may suffer from Xen Syndrome
a bit with the backtracking, but that's still just not fair. :|
- Luc: Oddly, I agree with you that it's unfair; but the description of a Franchise Zombie is so dead on that I'd keep it, if not as ", review of Devil May Cry 4". I've tried in the past (and tried again just now; may or may not still be there) to fix it so that the implicit Your Milage May Vary in the Devil May Cry case is clearer.
It looks like we have a bit of an edit war between Mr Wednesday and Rebochan over the Your Mileage May Vary
and Critical Research Failure
items. Could we discuss this a bit, guys, rather than just ping-ponged insertions and deletions?
: Sorry, yes, I was hoping to avoid posting in this discussion page because of all the borderline flaming going on here, but that was probably a bit counterproductive of me. Firstly, the Critical Research Failure
I have a problem with because I just don't believe Yahtzee wasn't fully aware of everything mentioned there. The sales of the games in question weren't integral to the point he was making (that Nintendo should stop flogging what he sees as dead horse franchises), and even when he said more people would buy Mother 3 than Mariokart Eleventy Billion Etcetera, that was more just another random Take That!
and for comic effect than an actual statement of belief.
The Your Mileage May Vary
line just makes the page look inconsistent, as all of the description before it did a good job of putting across the general idea of Z.P and lauding it as 'fast, funny and well written'. It's too obviously sandwiched in. Ideally, instead of that one line, we could have an additional small paragraph there at the bottom, explaining how Z.P can be a polarizing, Love It or Hate It
series with its fair share of both Fan Dumb
and Hatedom, so Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement applies...or something. Planning to get around to it myself at some point.
I agree that there needs to a better description of how the guy's material is received. The Your Mileage May Vary
line is clearly an attempt to try and stem off some of the flame wars over him, but its hardly adequate - though it might work as a placeholder until something better appears. The Critical Research Failure
line is trying to say that even if his point was "Nintendo needs more variety in their franchises and less sequels of old stuff", he picked a spectacularly bad choice of games for the analogy he did choose to make. Not coincidentally, the punchline falls flat in a satirical joke if it can be instantly disproved.
: It still doesn't really fit Critical Research Failure
, though. Not to mention that as a video games critic, and one who goes out of his way a lot to restate that "Games are art", he's far more likely to care about the games' actual quality than their sales. Not always an attitude Nintendo or E.A. have the luxury of being able to take, true, but that's another discussion. But anyway...wouldn't Analogy Backfire
be a far more suitable trope for what's described there?
: You're right, that actually would fit Analogy Backfire
a lot better. Mainly because he discussed how the games would sell
as opposed to how much people would like them.
Slotts: Removed the Sequelphobic entry, as I get the feeling that he doesn't really hate them at all. Some of his most praised games are sequels (Silent Hill 2, Half-Life 2). I think he just hits them a lot because there happen to be a lot of mainstream sequels coming out right now.
Slotts: I stand corrected, at least according to his FEAR 2 review. Replaced it.
The Brawl Brawl
Terminus Est 13
: Noticed this in the Sequelphobic entry. "He has noted this and has made it aware to the public."
Eh? Where? Looked around on his personal site and it's not acknowledged there. Checked the blurbs on the end of his reviews and they didn't say anything about it.
: His Fear 2 review comes to mind...
Terminus Est 13
: That "He has noted this" bit was a response to the sequelphobic rant that it was "A very ad-hominem-laden rant from a man who has made numerous sequels of all his existing franchises, one must note."
Either way, since there's no source for the "He has noted this" bit after this query on Discussion for...about a week or so, I've nuked it.
Steve The Pocket: Wondering if there might be call for a second Examples list containing the tropes he's criticized or otherwise referenced in his reviews, seeing how we're all eager to quote him at the top of their pages.
: So, Yahtzee's latest video
makes reference to the Warrior Poet
, Proud Warrior Race Guy
, and Last of His Kind
. All of this begs the question: what's his troper ID?
: I was just coming on here to say the same about the latest one
, which has Superpower Lottery
word for word (although the latter's not exactly (C)TV Tropes
) plus a villain Petting the Dog. I got temporarily sidetracked reading the intense flamewars with horrified curiosity. As for revealing his ID - that'd just be suicide now wouldn't it?
SSJ DK Crew: I'm not convinced that "analogy backfire" belongs, or at least, I think it should be reworded. As it stands, the entry makes a claim that is clearly false; namely, that Yahtzee's assertion that Mother 3 would outsell a Mario Kart game can be easily disproven. There is no way to be entirely certain that his claim is false unless someone actually does release Mother 3 outside of Japan. To state otherwise is to make the same mistake that executives frequently make; to assume that because something has a brand name, its sales will be identical to all other things with the same brand name. You can't assume that Mother 3's sales would be identical to Earthbound's sales any more than you can assume that a remake of Zelda 2 would get the same kind of attention that Ocarina of Time got.
Remember, Earthbound is the only game in the series that was EVER released outside of Japan, and it got very little publicity, popular advertising or support from the company that sold it. It's not reasonable to say that the entire Earthbound series is cursed just because one game was mishandled and didn't reach its target audience.
If the entry for "analogy backfire" is going to stay in, it should be edited to say that the analogy is faulty, because it hinges on factors that no one could possibly prove accurate.
: You are correct in that we have no way of knowing, for certain, if Mother 3 would outsell Mario Kart. At least, absolutely. Really, though, to claim that there is a chance that such a niche game would outsell one of Nintendo's most popular spinoffs is... questionable. We don't have concrete evidence, but past experience certainly leads strong support.
As well, Earthbound actually did have a fairly good advertising campaign when it was first brought over. I still distinctly recall a rather... smelly... advertisment in an old VG magazine of mine. RP Gs
were more of a niche market back then.
I say leave it as is.
: Actually, we do have a pretty good idea of how well Mother 3 would match up to Mario Kart. Mario Kart outsold it in Japan, it's home country, where it's a major franchise. And as noted earlier, Nintendo did promote the hell out of that game, but the sales were not too good. I love Earthbound and Mother 3 to death, I do. But while the quality of one versus the other may work in an analogy depending on your tastes (and I'd honestly pick Mother over Mario), the problem was that he specifically addressed sales numbers. Mario Kart has been a system seller for the last two gens. Mario Kart Wii is in the top five selling software titles on the Wii and high up there for overall sales this gen. Mother 3 was well received and sold well in Japan, but not the way Mario Kart does.
:Pressed enter a bit too quickly there. Anyways: His old problems with the AGS community is already mentioned both in the article and elsewhere, and it is not so relevant that it needs to be a part of the header.
: Well, this page is looking a lot better these days. Eeexcellent. Changed the opening quote, I know it's been there a while but it's hardly concise and really quite redundant. Also, can we not list tropes that are present in the games he reviews? That's going to take up quite a lot of space. Him hating the Karma Meter
doesn't equate to Karma Meter
being a trope used in Zero Punctuation
, if you know what I mean.
: I dunno, I think an argument for the Karma Meter
entry could be made if he invokes it enough. If it only appears in one game, sure, don't keep it. But if he repeatedly discusses it, it might be worth noting. I could be nuts though. Oh wait, I am nuts. Well, I could be wrong at least.
: I see your point, but listing his pet peeves really isn't what this page is for (apart from anything else, that might take a fair old while). The Karma Meter
is a feature of the games, not a feature of Zero Punctuation
. It could be worth putting another paragraph at the top to talk about a few of the more common targets though, to avoid this coming up.
: That sounds like a good idea. Maybe a little section after the introduction but before the main tropes?
poptart_fairy: Can we do something about the Did Not Do The Research section? It seems a lot of people seem hellbent on clogging the page with umpteen examples, regardless of whether or not they are actually examples. Yeah, yeah, Yahtzee isn't right about everything, but it's incredibly tiring seeing a massive gaping void where tropers dump everything they can into that one section. Someone had the idea of describing how Yahtzee doesn't always research the games thoroughly and leaving it at that - apparently this wasn't considered acceptable, and the old mammoth entry was re-entered. Weh.
Terminus Est 13
: I'm pretty sure everything in there is an actual example. And for a "massive gaping void", it's actually kinda small—there's just multiple instances of it, just like there's multiple instances of Running Gag
, Rule34, and Take That!
: I'll go ahead and try to start this again since there's a small edit war over taking the examples out and putting them back. I feel the examples, so long as they are valid and based on *objective* facts (like sales numbers or a feature that doesn't work the way he claims). I edited a little before adding the examples again to make sure it just focused on objective facts and not a difference of opinion. They're not getting out of hand, and I think it's worth including them since yes, it does happen, and having no examples besides the few he's acknowledged doesn't seem fair to the page. More thoughts?
: The problem is, in the version mentioned above that I just reverted, the resulting section is the longest section of the article, INCLUDING THE LEDE. So, yeah, the Did Not Do The Research
is too large in that version.
- It's not longer than the lede. And being a long section shouldn't require that we delete all the examples and gut the content - plenty of articles have long lists of sub-examples as long as they're all valid. If it's just natter, then fine, cut it. And stop deleting it by fiat when obviously you're the only one who seems to want it to go. Hence why I tried to get discussion again.
- Luc: In particular, the "sales estimates" examples are not examples of Did Not Do The Research. They're purely statements of opinion, without any facts attached; Did Not Do The Research requires getting your facts wrong. If Yahtzee wrongly claimed that A outsold B, that would be an example of Did Not Do The Research; but not if he claimed that A will outsell B.
- Actually, those needed to go back to Analogy Backfire, as we agreed they fit in several months ago...but it appears someone tried to delete that too. And for no reason.
Sorry, but until there's more consensus to pull, I'm putting them back. Right now, it seems like it's just you that wants them gone and that just means its going to stay as an edit war if more people don't speak up (HINT - MORE PEOPLE SPEAK UP)
poptart_fairy By the same token shouldn't we be leaving the examples off until there's more demand for them? Some of the damn are reaching to incredible lengths (a single change in one battle for Overlord 2 is a gameplay 'benefit'? Starter armour customisation in Tabula Rasa isn't pointless because you can change your equipment two levels in?!). Seems more like someone's desperate to poke any hole they can find into the article, rather than adding anything substantial to it.
: Unfortunately, nobody's actually challenged
those examples - the response was to simply delete the entire entry - which to me is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If some of the examples stretch things to far, by all means, pull them and start a discussion here about why. But the trope does
need examples - simpyl saying "Yahtzee doesn't do any research" without proving why is a meaningless entry.
poptart_fairy: I challenged those entries myself, actually - they kept being dumped back into the article without any effort at telling us why it counted as a research failure.
: Well, they did have justifications. For future reference, though, it really helps to put contested deletions on the discussion page since the page history seems to get purged every so often and it's helpful to have a record of what was causing a problem and why.
: Speaking of the lede, I seem to recall it used to be a little longer. When did it get so sparse? I admit its a lot more to the point now, though. I'm also afraid to fluff it up right now.
: I've searched high and low for this, so thought I'd ask here. The picture of a man he uses from time to time (blank face, wearing a suit I think, star of "Captain Bland's Monotonous Adventure") - who is
poptart_fairy : http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-escapist-presents/1063-Audience-Questions-for-Yahtzee
'This is Mr.Roughexpressionless, that's the name of the image file, because it's part of a series of photographs by a photographer named Thomas Rough.' The full question and answers starts around 5:30.
: Hey, for the sake of keeping things easier to manage here, I made a Crowning Moment of Funny
page for this show and split everything listed on the main page over there. Hopefully that will resolve that issue.
: Removed the below line from the entry "Don't Call Him Paul" or something along those lines.
I don't see how it's ironic, since one of the reasons he thinks that his fans are weird is because they call him Ben. If I missed something, feel free to restore the line in question~