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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Nohbody: Why were the spoiler tagged items de-spoilered? Age of the material alone isn't enough a reason on its own, even for It Was His Sled material.
Nohbody: Speed scale isn't addressed by Units Not to Scale, so I removed that and cleaned up the explanation for that trope entry.
Nohbody: In a probably futile attempt to head off (even more of) an edit war, the CIC is mentioned not because of my association with it, but because it is the biggest singular collection of information (read: "not scattered from here to eternity on umpteen dozen sites") about WC. It makes no sense to repeat literally gigabytes of data (and that's not even including any hosted videos) in the entry here when that data is already available online for free, for those interested in looking further into WC.

And, on a tangential note, the earlier implication that I'm representing the CIC here was amusing. Other CIC staffer reactions to TVT in general vary from "indifferent" to "hostile". I'm doing this on my own, as a WC fan wanting to spread the word, so to speak, about WC.

Night: Well, let's be straight here. There isn't a single other game page on this wiki that I've seen which links to a non-official game site. Even official sites are usually only linked to in the context of a sequel which is not yet released. In retrospect, you were correct to delete my commentary on WCS. On the other hand, I was also correct to delete the link to CIC, particularly so if they're not terribly fond of Conversational Troping or TVT.
  • Night: Nobody's saying a word in the defense of the CIC link here. I'll give it a couple more days and take it off the page unless somebody does.

Nohbody: Generally speaking, with a relative few exceptions discussion pages don't get a lot of traffic. That said, on further thought, during my self-imposed vacation from TVT (see, I'm not addicted, I can quit any time :P ), I've come to the conclusion that the link really isn't that big an issue. CIC is still the first non-Wiki google hit, after all. *g* (Saga is the 2nd or 3rd, FYI.)

(And, tangentially, I don't see what the CIC staffers' opinion has to do with anything. Something Positive's author doesn't seem to care much for TVT, judging from one of the Super Stupor strips, but it's still linked from the S*P page. Granted, S*P has an official source, unlike Wing Commander [save EA's Arena page].)


Nohbody: Criticizing the movie on the forums isn't what makes things "not end well". It's "lol this sucks" and complaints based on made up stuff (and I don't just mean fanon) that tend to not get well received. lockhead: This Troper has seen anything less than heavenly praise for the movie met with death threats. Is that not well received enough for ya?

Nohbody: Really... If it's so common, I'm sure you have a ton of examples to provide evidence of your claim. And for the record, I mean criticisms other than something from Beavis And Butthead ("this sucks, change it").

And while I'm here, why is CZ drama being brought here, anyway? Look up a bit on this very page, about the CIC link being removed. Is it really that hard to find a web forum other than TV Tropes entries to bitch about the movie? There's probably at least several forums that would (and probably have) welcome that sort of thing, why shit up elsewhere?

lockhead: Don't go hating just because you have a problem with what someone says. What, you an atheist or something?

There were tons of examples on this screwed up Wing Commander forum, but the posts before 2007 seem to be wiped.

Fighteer: This site is about cataloguing tropes, not engaging in elaborate conversations about Fan Dumb. At least, not in the main page.

lockhead: Ah, Mick Foley, to be fair some fans are obsessed jerkasses, but you need a much better defense than to say 'lol we don't like that comment'.

Fighteer: It's not that at all. It's that we strive for, if not objectivity, at least the absence of apparent bias, especially when it's directed from one part of the fandom to another part, and could escalate into a Flame War if allowed to continue. Quite simply, when you add a comment like that, consider the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement. If it fails to pass the test, just don't bother. You aren't adding to the sum of troper knowledge; you're making yourself look like a Fan Hater with an axe to grind. And you don't win any points by accusing me or anyone else of sock puppetry. Now, as I pointed out, the main page is not an appropriate place to be having this kind of discussion. It's really not even practical on the Discussion page. We have a forum where you can hash it out to your heart's content. I'll even start a topic for ya. Otherwise you risk getting banned from the site for being a Jerk Ass. Is it really worth it? (Edit: added a forum thread about your behavior.

Janitor Page is locked until we get some discussion going. Either here or in the [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=5ao3jm6sahp6j7i2bg7x1vg1&page=1#1 forum thread]]. I suggest the issue be discussed, rather than anyone's behavior. The issue is Take That's and why we don't really need them.

lockhead: Given that someone who is not a fanboy had edited the page the way they think it should be I'm willing to let it be. edit: Though would it be fair to suggest the film is a Berserk Button?

Nohbody: No, it would not, which is why I nuked your latest attempt at trying to drag forum bullshit into TVT (even if made more generic than your previous efforts at same). There are plenty of discussions about the movie that don't involve people getting stupid, and not just on the CIC forums. That you insist on trying to make it look like a BB doesn't make it so.

lockhead: Please don't be rude, it doesn't help. Not to mention encourage edits just to piss you off.

Fighteer: Didn't learn from last time, eh lockhead? Stop trying to turn this page into your personal crusade about the WC movie Fan Dumb. If I have to PM a moderator to get you edit locked, I will.

lockhead: That's all right, I put up examples of raging butthurt fans in other entries.

Fast Eddie; Well, that's enough for me. Bye, bye lockhead.

codenamehunterwolf: And just on that note I thought it prudant to delete the negative examples of the film, as they do not belong on this page and it will discourage future jerkasses.

Nohbody: No, it won't actually discourage anyone. Also, one or two of the negatives I put up there (including the red string entry), and I'm not exactly a member of the WCM hatedom. I'm not going to bother putting them back in because I'm lazy, but I expect one of the others who've made any/all of those other entries will be back within a week or so to revert the changes you made, CHW.


Nohbody: The movie Rapier's design is like 100-odd years old as per the Confederation Handbook (manual for the movie, for all practical purposes), like the Scimitar's design in WC1. Schizo Tech involves something above the setting's tech level, not old stuff used there.


Silent Hunter: I've just read the fate of Angel. Whoa.

codenamehunterwolf: I deleted Jazz as an example of Tragic Monster. Does he really come across as this at all? I don't see it.


Joeyjojo: Tachyon cannons, one of the better "bang/buck" weapons in terms of efficiency, fire particles that are faster than light in Real Life * (Except that they don't actually exist in Real Life; the model demonstrating this having proven flawed.), at "laser" velocities.

that a fact? nothing on it on the other wiki. They were more of a theoretical thought experiment than anything anyway.