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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Flysh: Sorry if I'm missing something, but why is this on the beautiful tropes index? It just seems like a normal costume trope to me...
Nerdorama: Am I the only one who finds it odd that no women actually from Neon Genesis Evangelion wear socks like this? Or am I just being overly literal for the sake of a joke?

Sikon: Okay.... this is ridiculously obscure even by TVTW standards.

Big T: Well, apparently this is a preexisting term in describing anime. PT trumps SPOON any time.

Jisu: Well, it lost with Petting Zoo People (preexisting term: Kemonomimi), but yes, it's supposed to.

Some Sort Of Troper: When it's a generally recognised term that has managed to catch on and spread as a trope moniker beyond the constraints of genre or fanboyism, that's what's supposed to triumph... no, wait, it's not meant to triumph- it's meant to be taken as a highly beneficial argument in favours that still needs to be discussed.

Koveras: About that latest The Daughter Of Twenty Faces entry... I dunno, can you really subvert something as material as Zettai Ryouiki? :-/

Space Drake: Well, I dunno. I include it primarily because the show is a larger subversion of Moe Moe in general; especially when you see the show in motion and you realize to what lengths the animators are going to avoid showing thighs (which, of course, in the modern anime environment is a rare sentiment), you can't help but think that this phenomenon is being addressed directly.

Koveras: Ah, I see, that's what you meant. ^^ Actually, the entry was a bit confusing to me so I didn't really get it... Are you OK with the way I've rewritten it?

Space Drake: Met you halfway. :V Yes, it's fine as it is now.

Koveras: It's settled, then. :)


Nornagest: This article has been bugging me for a while, and I finally figured out why: the way I'm interpreting it, it doesn't actually seem to be a trope. It has no storytelling significance, and doesn't imply anything about the character — or, if it does, it's not mentioned in the article. It hasn't even got much of the "why" material that most of the Useful Notes pages do. It's just a reasonably common (and frankly pretty vague) character-design element, apparently based on an aesthetic that Japanese fandom finds attractive. I'll leave it up to consensus to decide whether that's significant enough to warrant an article, but if I were supreme overlord of the wiki I'd leave it out.

Koveras: Isn't there No Such Thing As Notability?.. Besides, what harm can come from such an article? ^^

Nornagest: It's not harmful, it's just... creepy.

Narvi: You realize we have several other visual aesthetic pages?

Koveras: I take that creepy part is because it's somewhat of a Subjective Trope. ^^;


Ninjacrat: Pulling this again:
  • Deliberately avoided in The Daughter of Twenty Faces: although the series seems like perfect fodder for this and every other Moe Moe archetype out there, outside of a tutu for half an episode the animators go a long way to avoid showing thighs (which, of course, is a rare sentiment in the modern anime environment) even when characters are performing complex acrobatics.
because if something isn't an example, then it doesn't go under the heading 'examples'.

Large Blunt Object: That one was called a subversion (which, going by Space Drake's explanation above, it plainly isn't), so I changed it to "deliberately avoided". Eh.

Ninjacrat: Turns out it's already been exampled under Magic Skirt. A page where it actually fits. So that's doubleplus no reason for it to be here.


SpiriTsunami: A tragedy...our outbound link to the Anime Deshou Deshou article is now dead. Can someone track down a new link?

Koveras: Seems like the site is down, and the Google can't find where it was moved to (if at all)...


Clevomon: How high do socks have to go before they're considered knee socks? A few characters I'm debating adding who have socks that cut off just below the knee.

michaelfeb16: The link on the page explains the idea very well. Below the knee is Grade C - not true Zettai Ryouiki.

SpiriTsunami: Ah, you found it! Yeah, about that...Here's how you know you've been influenced too much: When you see a drawing on deviantART, initially rate it a Grade B, then realize that the artist put the knees in the wrong place on the legs and start debating whether or not the lack of knee coverage automatically makes it a C grade or lower or if exceptions can be made for oddly proportioned characters.


Koveras: Wait, someone besides Tohsaka achieved Grade S?? This is blasphemy! This is madness!

SpiriTsunami: Madness? THIS! IS! SPARTA! But seriously, it's hardly surprising. Once word got out that this combination was a holy trinity of moe, there were bound to be others.


Sparkykandy: Does anyone what grade sock Utau Hoshina from Shugo Chara! has, especially in the outfit that resembles a school uniform (aka. the first outfit we see her in. She wears it again in Volume 4 too, I believe.)? I'm asking because she already has the pigtails and the sort of tsunderish personality needed for the S grade rank. Now, I just to know if she has the needed Zettai Ryouiki too. They look either they can be either an A or B but I can't tell which grade they really are.


SpiriTsunami: Ah, yes, the obvious question: How the hell do you pronounce "Zettai Ryouiki"? Because that cluster of vowels keeps messing me up.

Koveras: I pronounce it as it's written. :-/ "Ai" as "eye", and "iki" as "ee-ki".
LE Xicon 712: Imma be the first to say: If we change the title of the article, im changing the picture as well.

Morven: Why?

LE Xicon 712: Wow, somebody actually heard me. Since the current picture is affiliated with the name "Zettai Ryouiki" i feel like if the title changes, so does the picture. I'll probably put a higher grade of zettai ryouiki (or a chart).
DoKnowButchie: " 'Absolute Territory' (zettai ryouiki in Japanese) describes the area of uncovered thigh between the skirt and the knee sock." Shouldn't it actually be "thigh" sock? The common definition of "knee socks" is "socks that stop below the knee", which doesn't seem to fit the tropes' purpose.

Meems: Agreed. Zettai Ryouiki need over-the-knee socks or thigh highs. On an unrelated note, that Anime Deshou Deshou article is kind of creepy, if informative.
Tricksterson: So what if someone has, say, Grade C but also is Tsundere and/or has Girlish Pigtails? Does that move them up a grade or does the universe implode?
Shan't it also have a link to beauty and sex tropes? I don't know how to add those, but it shall I think, likewise an English reference or description might be useful in links to it...
Shrikesnest: The next time I need to explain to someone that there are concepts that can't be translated word-for-word from other languages, I'm pointing them here O.O


Mack: Just something I'm wondering, do the socks have to be black?

Tricksterson: Preferred, not required. Even that is YMMV.