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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Programme Note:

Hats off, for a moment. The premise of this section of the wiki is that the theories being offered are being taken seriously, at least by one nutcase. If you are tempted to make an entry refuting a theory, the discussion pages are there for that purpose. The article itself should be used for tongue-in-cheek "proofs" and "evidence" supporting the theory, or for yet wilder theories.

Some folks have been missing the joke, so we've put up this programme note to make it clear. You may now put your tinfoil hat back on.


Seth: Keeping a tally for... research purposes.

Last Updated 1st July 07
Header: Description: Tally
  1. Real Identity: A character is not what he seems: 9
  2. Political Agenda: A character or the writers have a secret political agenda: 7
  3. Alternate Realities: The entire universe is different to what we have been led to believe: 6
  4. Other 6
  5. Afterlife/Dead: The entire series is a form of afterlife or a main character is actually dead: 6
  6. Luke, I Am Your Father: One character is secretly the parent of another: 5
  7. Delusion/Fake: The entire series is either a delusion of a main character or in some other manner fake: 5
  8. A God Am I: A main/supporting character is actually god: 2
  9. Planet of the Apes Ending: A series takes place in a post apocalyptic earth: 1
  10. In The Future: A character will grow up to do/be...: 1

Just thought it might be fun to see trends in these theories.


Daviot: A friend and I had a conversation concerning Haruhi Suzumiya. And thus I found it necessary to plant a redwood-sized epileptic tree.

Fencedude: This is an AWESOME idea for a page.

Fast Eddie: Pulled ...
After noticing the Fan tropes section's nebulous beginning, I thought we could sway some potential flack with this fun exercise.
... on account of the first-person thing .

osh: I'm glad folks like it, though I had hoped it'd stick to the fairly plausible..

Pro-Mole: This is a great page, indeed. I hope to see it grow and grow...

Looney Toons: In which case, it's time to put this puppy into alphabetical order, so people can look up their favorite series easier.

Umptyscope: I like the one about us.

Seth: It didn't take long for this to be one of the most awesome pages on the wiki.

Tanto: I'm tempted to put the "dual timelines" theory of The Legend of Zelda continuity on there, but a) it's a fairly widely accepted theory, and b) I don't really understand it. It's too bad Ocarina of Time is such a great game, because it wreaks complete and utter havoc with the series's continuity.

Seth: The Rune Soldier one is widely accepted as well, it's still Fannon so there is no reason not to put it in.

YYZ: Re: Rune Soldier: It's pretty obvious what they're trying to imply, but nowhere in the canon do they ever come right out and admit it. - And now that I think of it, this could apply to that whole issue from The Slayers about Naga being Amelia's long-lost sister. They keep hinting at it, but they'll never actually say it.

Tanto: Actually, Hajime Kanzaka confirmed the Naga/Amelia thing.

Scrounge: Umptyscope likes that one, huh? Now we meet the ringmaster behind this little circus. Tie him up and stuff him with Marshmallow Peeps until he talks!

Seth: Such a cruel and unusual method of torture... I'll Allow It

Umptyscope: I make no claims to leadership here; I'm a monkey hammering on a keyboard, same as everyone else in this room. Besides, Peep Torture won't work on me — my modem is nowhere near fast enough.


Seth: Added my own spin to the Haibane bit - i have thought about, debated and studied that series far too much in the last few years and those are the conclusions i came to.

The Defenestrator: I thought the Haibane Renmei section was pretty much widely accepted, with the exception of the Haibane working to pay for their sin- the theories I've read say that the Haibane's rules are to keep the humans from resenting them. see http://denbeste.nu/Chizumatic/tmw/HaibaneRenmei.shtml#0015
Burai: Yeah, I know, we're openly encouraging Epileptic Trees here, but still I have to question this:
Heroes — "Save The Cheerleader" refers to Jackie Wilcox, the character who takes credit for Claire Bennet's actions: Her presence in a variety of events is completely irrelevant to the main plot of the series, but it will be later revealed that she will save the world from alien invasion. Or at least she would have, if her brain hadn't been eaten. As it is, the main characters bolloxed it all up, and the world will die.
"It's not a lie unless they have proof", the file says. Well, they have proof. Future-Hiro explicitly confirms that "the cheerleader" he tells Peter to save is the one who regenerates, i.e. Claire, since the reason for the message in the first place is really to prevent Sylar from gaining that power (not, apparently, that he actually needed it...).


xwingace: I've moved the Doctor Who example to its alphabetical position, and added a speculation there of my own. Spoiler tagged because it contains information from the current season.
Morgan Wick: Should we add something to Laws and Formulas that "as the size of the fanbase and the fanon grows, and as more Epileptic Trees theories are proposed, the likelihood of a theory involving "souls of the dead" and/or purgatory approaches one." After reading the second TV Tropes one.

SAMAS: You could, but really I only put that one up because of all the other "Souls in Purgatory" guesses. I originally wanted to say that there was an unhealthy obsession with purgatory, then that one hit me.

Looney Toons: I am so tempted to put up one for Gilligan's Island along the lines of "The castaways are dead and in Purgatory, because all the other kids are doing it this season..." (More seriously, I vaguely remember a wild theory about Gilligan's Island along the lines of "they the victims of an experiment being run by the professor", but I don't remember the details — has anyone else heard this one?)

Umptyscope: I remember years ago, someone saying each character in Gilligan's Island represented one of the Seven Deadly Sins — Ginger was lust, Mr. Howell was greed, etc. Someone else worked it out so that one of them actually represented two sins (maybe Skipper was Wrath and Sloth) so that Gilligan didn't represent any... proving that the island was Hell, and, in making sure he screwed up enough so they could never escape, Gilligan was Satan! (Hey, red shirt...)


((Jack_Cain)): No "orochimaru as biju container" entry under Naruto? This must be rectified. SAMAS: Considering that the Akatsuki, whom Orochimaru was a member of, were in the business of fatally removing biju from their containers and storing them in a statue, I'm going to have to say no.

Outsyder0486: Actually...it's been stated that the Akatsuki have to pull biju out in order of tails, from Gaara (one) to Naruto (nine). I think they're up to four by this point in the manga - maybe three, I can't recall at this point in time. And making a deal with a powerful demon really seems like the kind of thing Orochimaru would do - and if I were Akatsuki, I would wait until I had to deal with a raving psychopath who's one of the three strongest ninja in the world. If anyone else agrees with this, I'll put it up there.

What I'm really surprised about, however, is that there are no theories on Kabuto. What does he want? Why does he help the good guys then immediately try to kill him? Yeesh.

((Jack_Cain)) It's a fair theory. I mean, why else have a charatcer who's name is connected to a famous, mythological eight-tailed snake? It can't just be random coincidence. Not to mention his snake theme, and the fact that he was obviously inhuman from a very young age.
Lale: Should the Dungeons and Dragons series "The kids are dead and in Hell" theory go here? The Word of God may have expressly corrected this, but it looks like it was pretty widespread before that.


Duckluck Put up my own bogus theory on what this Wiki's all about. I hope Seth and Ununnilium don't mind...

Seth: You do realise I need to flashy thing you now?

Duckluck: Being X obviously isn't very good at being an undercover agent seeing as she/he/it wrote that part her/him/itsself.

Ununnilium: Hahaha, win.

maybe the undercover agent thing was a Sarcastic Confession

Harpie Siren: But if you were telling the truth, you wouldn't have told us!

yes i would, because you're either a muggle or an alien who is utterly oblivious to the fact that i am actually a man in black and could kill you right now with my cybertron-zap-o-cyberspace-shooty-gun-thing-ray-beam-on-sandwich-with-a-side-of-death gun
crapface: I put this in: Ununnilium is acully crapface from the Future this is backup by a lot of stuff that go's on in there lives like thay look the same when thay where chilren how Ununnilium coudint type or spell vary well when he was yong.

What do you think about it?
Seth: Suzumiya Haruhi is god needs a mention, even some of the characters believe it.

Ununnilium: Except that it's totally canon within the show. It not being true is a theory that fits on this page, in fact.

Fencedude: The relevent theory here is that KYON is god, and subconsciously manifested Haruhi to provide the outlet for his imagination...and honestly, I'd be shocked if this wasn't the big reveal when the novels finally end.
Seth: Okay whats with people removing the dividers between the main body and the examples in these pages. Here and in Title Bin two different users - has there been a change in layout policy that i haven't been told about?

Also i prefer the look of — to the straight line, for a start the straight line that it is being replaced with is too long and makes the sentences hard to follow.

Sikon: That's my fault, I copied the entire thing into a text editor and replaced every occurrence of — with while forgetting that the horizontal line is made up of ——.

Seth: I reverted them, every other page on the wiki uses —. No need for this one to use the mdash.
whitetigah: regarding the first Pokemon theory, that's what really happened in Monster Rancher, another Mons series: humans created the Mons to use as laborers and soldiers; the biggest and meanest of these soldiers gained self-awareness, rebelled and all but destroyed civilization before it was defeated; the humans then rebuilt with the help of the Mons. Perhaps this is worth mentioning?

Thunder Phoenix: I'm kind of surprised that noone's put forth any crazy Neon Genesis Evangelion theories yet. That seems to be the kind of series that encourages this kind of lunacy.

Lale: Because, relatively, no Evangelion theory is crazy but very likely.

Sikon: Ha-ha, five points for your Evangelion entries, Lale! However, since they're all actual spoilers, I added spoiler tags to all of them.
Lale: I'm waiting for someone to write a good, convincing "Giovanni is Ash's father" theory. It fascinates me, but I'm not in-the-know enough about Pokemon at this point to try.

Furiko Maru: IIRC, a site called Pokemopolis proposed a theory that Professor Oak is actually Ash's father via a secret tryst with his Hot Shounen Mom; that's why he's always there when Ash calls home, why they were on vacation together in that episode that was banned for Gag Boobs-content, and why he bets against his own grandson in favour of Ash in the first season (it also explains Gary's resentment towards his 'younger uncle'). Granted, I've seen maybe three episodes of Pokemon in my entire life, but it seemed to make a certain amount of sense, besides being extremely amusing.
Grev: Yeah, it's off the wall, but this definitely needed at least one Firefly theory...
Colin: Anyone else think that the "Paul is Dead" theory needs to be in here, and if so under what?
Mister Six: Took the sarcastic comment ("oh wait, that's what everyone thinks" etc.) off the end of the second Purgatorio because it completely misses the joke.

Morgan Wick: But the joke's not all that funny IMO. Maybe this is my AS speaking but it seems to me that it just leaves one going "What an Idiot". Also, because it's blatantly obvious, it technically doesn't belong on the page (but I guess we do have the joke Evangelion ones, but those are actually funny) - it's just trying to riff on the "dead and in purgatory" theme some more, which, as the count on the page indicates, really isn't as prevalent as some other themes; before long we'll have more parodies of it than actual examples. Besides, if we're going to have any part of the Divine Comedy it should be the most famous one, Inferno. A big number of people haven't even heard of Purgatorio or Paradiso.

HeartBurn Kid: I vote we keep it. After all, if we don't have in-jokes here, what do we have?

Devil's Advocate: I think it's a quite clever twist on all the other "dead and in purgatory" theories, and I say we keep it. "Most people haven't heard of it" isn't a good argument, since everything is notable. If you wanted to use that argument, I'd point out that there's a big number of people who have never heard of Evangelion, either, but you don't see me (or any other contributors who are not anime fans) clamoring for the removal of anime-related theories, even the ones that are actually mainstream interpretations and just happen to be remarkably similar to theories which would be in Epileptic Trees territory if applied to most other series.

Mister Six: Tch, honestly. "The characters are in purgatory" is certainly a theory that gets trotted out 90% of the time (cf fandoms for The Prisoner, Lost, Mulholland Drive etc), even if it's not in the majority on this page. To apply that to a story that actually is about people in purgatory is a pretty clever idea. The fact that you didn't get the joke the first time around (and therefore decided to append a needlessly snarky and unpleasant remark onto the end) or that you don't find it funny is irrelevant. This is the TV Tropes Wiki, not the Morgan Wiki.

Kizor: I say we keep it, since it's clearly a blast for many people, and go do something more fun than arguing.
Whogus The Whatsler: Just a query...is it okay to put songs in here? I know, music is one area we don't tend to cover on this site, and I am sometimes wary that we'll eventually be the "Everything In the History of the World Tropes Wiki", but for whatever reason I find this kind of alternative theorising happens to me more with songs than anything else.

Umptyscope: You mean, stuff like the meaning to certain song lyrics? Like American Pie or Hotel California? (Seems to me such discussions are done on the rest of the internet, and lots of speculation flies around until the writer does an interview on VH-1 and tells you it was all about his mother.)

Whogus The Whatsler: No, I mean more songs that seem to be telling one story but have another possible interpretation. Like Bob Marley's I Shot the Sheriff. Seems straightforward enough, but one is left with some unanswered questions: Who did shoot the deputy? Why does everyone think the singer did it? And why are they after him "for the killing of a deputy", rather than the killing of both the sheriff and his deputy? Don't they know he killed the sheriff? My theory is he never killed the sheriff; it's just that years of the sheriff's menacing taunts has left the singer paranoid and disturbed, and on the day he was set to leave the town he was so sure that the sheriff wouldn't let him go that, the moment he glimpsed a police uniform — just the deputy, not out to get him at all — he shot and ran, convinced he'd killed the sheriff in self-defence.

That sort of thing. I have others. Anyway, my point is, does that kind of thing have a place here, or should we keep it music-free?

Lale: Might clutter the page since the possibilities are endless. Start a new trope for that.

Ununnilium: I say go for it. If it tells a story, it fits on the page.

Lale: But wouldn't it make more sense to have another page for alternate theories of the "true" meaning of song lyrics?
Citizen: Does that first Chrono Trigger example (evolution) fit here? Because... Lavos was responsible for evolution...

Ninjacrat: I though the same thing. That one pretty much explicit in the plot.

Man Called True: Perhaps, but I've had to fight about it with people before, which is why I put it in here.
Seth: I don't think this page needs more than two quotes, if the quotes are too long it detracts from the entry - placing in the Quote Bin

Citizen: You never let me have any fun, Seth. =P

Seth: Now be fair, i never let anyone have any fun when aesthetics are at stake.

Ci Ti Zen: Fair enough.
Looney Toons: Osh, I'm not entirely clear on the purpose of some of your recent changes to the Love Hina entry. Why the qualifier of "in the original story" in the theory declaration? It certainly applies to both manga and anime. And you altered

Kaolla's primary activity when not eating or harassing Keitaro seems to be sleeping on a tree branch.

to

Kaolla's primary activity when not eating or harassing Keitaro seems to be sleeping and eating.

Why the redundancy in "eating"?

Finally, your change to make the last line of the entry to

Furthermore, magical aptitude seems only partly sufficient, as the "Red Moon" events magic seems largely out of her control.

seems to be less an expansion on the idea and more of a rebuttal. Is that what you intended?


Looney Toons: Um. The recent addition of some goofball "theories" that exist simply to be over-the-top bizarro is perhaps a trend we ought to kill right now. I mean, I enjoyed throwing in the Vamp Benders entry just as a wiki in-joke, but the new material on Firefly, Lost and Transformers is just stupid for stupid's sake. I mean, this page was supposed to be for genuine speculation that just happened to be odd — not every bit of braindrool that strikes someone as borderline amusing.

HeartBurn Kid: In fairness, I don't think any theory's too whacked-out for Lost; at this point, they could reveal that everybody really has been on the set of a TV show all this time, and I wouldn't be surprised.

xwingace: The one on the set of a TV show is not mainly the one meant here, I think. But the moment Lost crosses over with Torchwood will be the day of the Apocalypse, I think. Oh wait, we already had that. On Torchwood at least...

Mister Six: Can this be the same Looney Tunes who objected to me asking for the Evangelion profiles to be deleted? Apparently so. Wild Mass Guessing is in the Just for Fun section. As far as I'm concerned, that means it doesn't have to be a hivemind of industrious critical thinking and convincing alternative theories. As the write-up makes entirely clear, this is for crazy pet theories: genuine speculation that just happens to be odd can go on Epileptic Trees. To suddenly declare that allowing people to have fun with their theories is a practice that should be "killed" is just needlessly miserable.

Lale: Note the Wild Mass in the title; something you think up on the spot solely to put it on the page is not wild mass guessing.

Looney Toons:
No, this is Looney Toons. With two "O"s. I am not a Warner Brothers production. And I am not obligated to mindlessly apply the same solution to every problem, real or imaginary, under the delusion that this illusionary "consistency" is somehow a virtue and that there is a one-size-fits-all approach to all problems. This page is for fundamentally real speculation on or interpretations of events in a show. Making stupid shit up just for the sake of putting something on it misses the damned point. Do that over in the Title Bin.

Mister Six: Mmm, interesting definition of Just for Fun, there. The thing is, nothing in the actual write-up says that it has to be "real" speculation. All it says is to have fun and make up some "crazy" theories. That people have then come up with things Just for Fun that don't meet your standards is neither here nor there.

The fact is that this site is just an amusing diversion - and this page a diversion within that diversion. More to the point, it's a democratic diversion whose form is moulded by its users. To stride in like Darth Vader and start demanding that "braindrool" entries (a definition that is, apparently, decided by you alone) be "killed" runs contra to the tone of the site. The officious tone that you adopted is particularly chafing, as is the implication that you know what's best for this page, not everyone else.

I did a similar thing with the Evangelion pages, but I like to think I did it rather more tactfully - and I realised afterwards that my opinion is just one of many and does not deserve special treatment. Nor are my opinions sufficiently authoritative that I should go around calling others' entries on this site "stupid shit", particularly if the entry was created for the sole purpose of making someone else laugh (surely the purest, sweetest intention of all?).

And in case you're wondering - I haven't added anything to this page, so I'm not trying to defend my own "braindrool".

Ninjacrat: I second to remove the junk entries from the list. When the page was new, I checked it every day, delighted to see new weird, crack-brained and sometimes frighteningly plausible theories people had offered up.

A majority of recent additions are forced rubbish that are metaphorcally elbowing you in the ribs and chortling how gosh-darned wacky and zany they are. Chuck 'em. The page should be for theories that have actually been entertained in all seriousness, even if only by one person, even if only for a second.

Unknown Troper: ok but the LOST meta theory stays

Mister Six: See, here's the problem. How do we know which ones have been entertained "in all seriousness"? There was a great one about Teletubbies as neo-fascists that came onto the page really early on that's blatantly made up for fun but is - in my eyes - a lot more entertaining than the "real" ones about some character being someone else's dad. I totally vote that the Purgatorio = purgatory one definitely stays, though.

Ninjacrat: "Entertained in all seriouness by one person" includes you, the reader. :) If it's supported by the text, or it alters your understanding of the text in a fun way, then it's good. If it's an exercise in seeing how many injokes/cult series it can namecheck, it's gone. The Purgatorio one definitely stays. It's got an actual point, for one.

Looney Toons: I apologize for my tone and language — something about this wiki has been turning me into a curmudgeon over the last six months and I don't understand why. But my point remains. And if people feel that by removing the Avatar stuff I created we can at least help discourage the stuff made up for the sake of making stuff up, I'll gladly go along with it.

Ununnilium: There's definitely a line between the "good" theories and the "bad" ones, but where that line falls is fuzzy. Personally, the only one I'd cut out is this one, as it's less an actual theory and more a game of "how many stories can I cross over at once" (fun, but not appropriate for this page). Even then, it might be rewritten into several discrete theories:
  • The Island is actually Avalon from Arthurian legend. King Arthur was buried there, bound to sleep for hundreds of years. The next people to visit Avalon were pirates that shipwrecked themselves. Some stayed on the island, living off the apples that grew there, but others grew restless and found a portal to another world — Narnia. Those pirates became the Telmarines; the pirates that remained repaired their ship and used the island as a base, building up a community.
    • They were kept eternally youthful by the magic of the island, but they clashed with Peter Pan and the various other communities that had sprung up (Native Americans, Mermaids etc).
    • The base was used by various pirates that squabbled over the land, including the crew of the Black Pearl.
    • Eventually the Mermaids died out and the Native Americans began to worship an ape that grew to monstrous size due to the magic of the island — King Kong.
    • After Kong was killed the Native Americans died out and the island was forgotten until it was used to keep prisoners.
    • Later it served as a home when a certain three-hour tour crashed. (This explains all the Bamboo Technology the Professor kept inventing.)
    • When they left the island, a team of archaeologists found Arthur's tomb and excavated it. On orders from an organisation that refused to name itself, the archaeologists installed an EMP device in what used to be the tomb, which came in handy when a certain plane flew over the island...

Later: Okay, here's some just-added examples of what not to do:
  • Primus is not immune to the effects of Marijuana: Two words, "Beast Machines".
    Bitching about show quality, plus a drug joke. Note there's no actual theory in this one.
    • Feel free to substitute Thundara or Eternia, among others into the above. Both of those worlds have a uffiecient level of Magitek, as well as Lost Technology that could have easily generated the Pokemon.
    This is basically saying "A Wizard Did It", which doesn't make for much of a theory.
  • Chiyo-Chan's pigtails are subject to a sort of displaced Gainaxing: Watch the intro to the five-minute short where Osaka is daydreaming. Chiyo-Chan is riding on a dog, and her pigtails bounce! Then, in the short proper, Osaka is tempted to wrap her hands around them, just reach out and touch them, and falls victim to a pigtail-lust-induced daydream that swiftly turns into a nightmare. Clearly, there's some sort of fetish involved, and it's being mocked.
    Honestly, I have no idea what the actual theory is here.

Ununnilium: Note that the Beast Machines one has been fixed into an actual theory. Well-done.
Looney Toons: Deleted this alleged entry from Crapface:

  • Ununnilium is acully crapface from the Future this is backup by a lot of stuff that go's on in there lives like thay look the same when thay where chilren how Ununnilium coudint type or spell vary well when he was yong.

Which is actually the result of several successive edits slowly refining and improving the idea and the spelling. If you can believe that.

Stupid we'll cope with. Illiterate we'll fix, if we have a clue what you're trying to say.

Stupid and illiterate? Sorry, no. Not for you.

Ununnilium: He's not stupid, just young. ^,^ As indicated on our contributor pages, he's my little brother. But yeah, that's way too injokey to stay on the site.

Looney Toons: <sigh> I didn't bother to go look. Geeze, I barely finish apologizing for being curmudgeonly and I do it again. Sorry.

Ununnilium: 's OK. ^_^
Fast Eddie: The ad-hominem thing deserves to go. The ATTAFOVS refs are funny. I've encountered the "immortal Inara" Firefly thing elsewhere. There is a pretty good chance that the more ridiculous the theory is, the better chance there is that it is actually out "in the wild". If we end up originating one ... well, that's cool, too. If it is about a show (including our faux-show), my vote is that it stays in. // afterthought: I'll try to track down where I saw that Inara thing. IF you have external link to a place where an epileptic tree is under discussion, throw it on the entry. Not that we need footnotes, but they might be fun. // later Bingo! Found it here.

osh: By golly thems a lot of words! Since this is my horrible spawn I'll clarify the intent in the entry.

—-

Scrounge: Why is the Chiyo Pigtail Fetish theory not valid? I added it back in, and it got deleted again, and I want to know what the deal is. A MINUTE OR SO LATER: Never mind, the second time was the result of a nuked edit. Gonna go ahead and de-nuke it now

Ununnilium: What the heck is the theory? "Chiyo-Chan's pigtails are subject to a sort of displaced Gainaxing" is not a theory; it either happens or it doesn't.
Also, in the very end, a fox appears that looks just like Makoto's fox form. (Great, now I'm going to start believing this.)
Citizen: I want to believe... ;_;
Morgan Wick: I had the feeling this page was a parody of Epileptic Trees theories, where people could make up the most ridiculous theories they could think of. I never had the impression they had to be real theories; otherwise it's a needless fork of Epileptic Trees in lieu of an examples field. Me thinks Looney just needs to take a Wikibreak if he's becoming too curmudgeonly as a result of the wiki. I think his real beef is he's encountering too many theories that just aren't funny.

Oh, and I'm not backing down on the Purgatorio one. It's just told with too much of a straight face. (Not that it should be de-straight faced.) 90% of people vouching for it are only doing so because everyone else is. I know because my first reaction was that it didn't sit well with me, and first reactions are never wrong, and completely outweighs all the opinions of the masses or even the need to have reasons because it is the arbiter of truth and nothing else matters because I say so. Nyah. </sarcasm>

(That said, I do like the parenthetical "wait a minute" that's been added. Consider it backed down from.)

Here's how osh originally created the page: After noticing the Fan tropes section's nebulous beginning, I thought we could sway some potential flack with this fun exercise. This is the place for our grizzled and seasoned veterans to expound their knowledge on the unmentioned. What's your crazy or not-so-crazy pet theory on a story you enjoyed? Have fun filling the logic holes and rationalizing the weird. And remember, it's not a lie unless they have proof! Which is way open to interpretation. Ruling? </Morgan Wick>

Egak: Feel free to add more proof to any of the theories I just added. In fact, please do.

Mister Six: I agree with Morgan Wick on the Epileptic Trees front. Move all "serious" examples there and leave this place for fun, silly writing.

Fast Eddie: Yes, it is not clear that this is meant for zany, made up stuff. That should be cleared up in the article intro, with directions to put the real "'trees" in Epileptic Trees.

Ununnilium: Well, I don't think "it could be real" is a very good reason to put things in Epileptic Trees. I'm personally fine with everything currently on the page staying where it is.

HeartBurn Kid: Axed "hey, you think maybe this whole purgatory thing has gone too far?" from the Purgatorio entry; IMHO, the lampshade on it works best when kept short. Brevity being the soul of wit, and all that.

Ununnilium: Taking out:
  • Kobol is in the Firefly Star System: No proof, but it sure would be awesome. The above theory would have to be a prerequisite, of course.
    No proof (not even silly proof) = doesn't belong here.


DomaDoma: With the end of the Harry Potter series so soon in coming, should we delete the related theories when the day comes? (I mean, two of those could actually happen.) And should we do the same for other series finales?

Being X: yes

Fast Eddie: A goodly number of these trees are about series that have already ended. Not at all sure that a little thing like the end of canonical production will do anything to slow down fanon. Pretty good evidence that it won't.

Dark Sasami: I think the concern is that one of the theories will turn out to be true, in which case there will be massive "OMG YOU SPOILED HARRY POTTER YOU BASTARDS" complaints.

Sikon: If this happens, Shoo Out the Clowns.

DomaDoma: Not sure what Sikon means by that, but anyway, I have deleted them.

Ununnilium: And I restored them, with a note.
Andyroid: 71.175.13.141, please, please stop whatever you think you're doing before I have an aneurysm. That's three times you've deleted more than half the entry, and if this keeps happening I'm going to cry "vandalism!"

Ununnilium: We've had this problem before, IIRC — something having to do with what happens if there's a glitch halfway through the page updating, or somesuch.

Looney Toons: Yeah, but he's done it three or four times in rapid succession. Even if he's got good intentions, he needs to stop it.

Morgan Wick: He may have an old browser or version of Google Toolbar.

Sikon: It has happened to me before when I was editing. It just happens, may be a bug in the wiki software.

Ununnilium: Sansa Stark? Who's that?

Also, I don't see what separates the Lord of the Rings theory from a generic... hm. Do we have a name for that plot? Where the Tomato Surprise is that all the magic is really technology? I could have sworn we did.

Anyway, my point is that there's nothing especially Star Wars-ish about it. It could be any kind of Magic from Technology.

Morgan Wick: I don't think we do.

DomaDoma: Sansa Stark is a character in A Song of Ice and Fire. At eleven years old, she's pretty vapid and annoying.

Fast Eddie: This is getting unweildy. How about making a group for these, with each show having its own entry?

Ununnilium: Hrm. That feels like it'd be unweildy in its own way, though, and not as easy to add to.

Fast Eddie: Better ideas?

Is the Lo T Rs one crap then? I wrote it, so I don't mind getting rid of it. Don't really see how it being a generic magic-from-technology is THAT bad, though, considering how many of the other examples are also common tropes. And it mostly uses aspects of Star Wars that aren't replicated elsewhere.

Ununnilium: Mmmmm... Well, to me, it doesn't really seem to fit. The Ainur, for example, are ridiculously powerful, much more than any Force-user; pretty much nothing about the Silmarillion fits, unless you say "ah, well, it's all a really, really messed-up version of real events". For that matter, none of the magic seems especially Force-y, or Star Wars-technology-ish.

Yeah, guess you're right. Okay, I've nuked it.

Someone just nuked most of the page. Is there an easy way to restore it?

DomaDoma: Just copy and paste it under the "show changes to markup" option.


Fast Eddie; In the absence of better ideas, I'm breaking up into an index for a group of its own.

Citizen: Hahaha, I just did a double take when I went to browse the All Recent Pages list. ^^


Devil Master: I want to add some wild theories on Captain S. This is a web show with a live-action first season, a webcomic as "season 1.5" currently in progress, and a live-action season 2 expected in 2009. What category does it fit?


Sabre Justice: I can't believe there isn't a page for Godzilla yet. My personal theory is that Gozilla is Leviathan. I suck with wikis, so how would this be added?

Maniakkid25: in a similar vein, can someone add a "other" subheading for every WMG section? You know, for the WM Gs that don't nessecarily have their own subheading.


Krine say: I'd like to put forth the notion that no, not every page needs "X is a Time Lord" in it somewhere. Seriously. And I don't think that saying "X is his Tardis" is enough proof for that anyways.

Eclipt: In fact, could I suggest that crossover speculation and in-universe speculation actually be separated? I think "X is a Time Lord" and so forth would be better served by one central page with multiple examples - especially if it's going to be applied to absolutely everything.

Fast Eddie: Yeah, the "X is a Time Lord" thing has gone past the Rule of Three. They should be pared back to three in the whole list. BTW, these aren't serious theories.


Master Hand: What happened to the little Joss Whedon faces that popped up next to jossed WMGs? I liked those!

Morgan Wick: What's up with the new WMG icons in the row of cross-namespace links?


JET 73 L: Why does WMG/WildMassGuessing redirect to Main/WildMassGuessing? Is there a valid reason for this? If not, is there some way to undo the redirect?

Pro-Mole: For the same reason JustBugsMe/JustBugsMe redirects to Main/ItJustBugsMe, so you can just type http://tvtropes.org/pwiki/pmwiki.php/WildMassGuessing without being redirected to the main page or an empty page.

...then again, none of those are redirects either, so.. I have no idea. At all.

JET73L: Huh, JustBugsMe/JustBugsMe was, until recently, a meta Headscratchers page rather than a redirect to Main/JustBugsMe, but now it's just a redirect.


In my opinion, the title of Wild Mass Guessing wasn't reatly chosen since now it has one of the unholiest acronyms.


Jackalope: Is anyone else having trouble editing the WMG pages? I tried to add a theory to the Bleach page, but it won't stick; I looked at the page history and it looks like I'm not the only one having this problem. Are any other pages broken like this?