"As a general rule of thumb if the Abrahamic God appears in an anime, at best he's a complete asshole, at worst he's basically the Christian view of Satan. The only time God has been portrayed in a positive light was in Princess Knight, which was made in the late 1960s. This generally leads to Christians either being just the religion of Shinto with nuns replacing Shrine maidens or the Inquisition. "
Vesu: I'm planning on removing this. Religious debate aside, it implies that any negative depiction of an Abrahamic deity is an unfortunate implication. The only implication is that the author does not think highly of of the Abrahamic god, but this is no more unfortunate than the author not thinking highly of of any character, real or fictional.
God isn't a character.
Ok, I'm noticing whenever things are actually corrected for being factually wrong or just plain idiotic, the corrections are gone soon. Any deletions are restored instantly. It's getting a bit noticeable here. Not only are several entries factually incorrect-case in point, the Pirates of the Caribbean one, claiming the evil 'ethnic people' flash evil grins as they try to doom the heroes...what it missed out is that not everyone there is ethnic, there are no flashings of evil grins and both are trying to race the other to the top. The Kung Fu Panda example seems to be drawing all kinda of conclusions, which that a rhino-which is commonly seen as a tough, belligerent animal- intimidating a bird is meant to show Asians being weak and intimidated (despite most of the asian characters in the film being, y'know action heroes. And why EVER would a bird find a rhino intimidating?) There's Unfortunate Implications and there's being nonsensical.
Part of the entry says: "The Klingons from Star Trek
, especially since The Next Generation
era, who are (barring a single exception) always dark-skinned"
I knew that this didn't sound right to me. I can recall at least a dozen Klingon characters played by white actors. In fact, looking at THIS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Klingons
, Worf is the ONLY major Klingon character who is dark-skinned (his brother Kurn was too, but he only appeared two or three times.) There were a few one-off Klingons portrayed by black actors, but the claims that the majority of Klingons were dark-skinned doesn't hold water, and the entry doesn't seem to belong in this section.
: Does Morrowind truly belong in there at all? The statement about not knowing what they want doesn't really fit it as much as it just being completely confusing to anyone trying to look for racial or ethnic subtext.
: Just throwing an idea out there, but maybe the reason the Dranei joined the Alliance is because not too long ago, the Horde killed most of their species.
: Yeah, I just removed the line "(Of course, the formerly-Alliance Blood Elves had story justification for joining the Horde, while the Draenei...) " because. A) it doesn't belong here. and B) Peteman is right. The Horde is lead by the Orcs, the ancient enemy of the Draenei and - more recently - the reason that their homeworld is in ruin. Then there's the fact that their sided with the Blood-Elves who blew up the Exodar and crashed it on the Night Elves, who the Draenei are now honorbound to help anyway.
:I believe the entry is referencing the obvious massive retcons and their complete change in appearance used to make Draenei playable.
:Also the Eredar and Sargeras are the reason that the Draenei homeworld is in ruins and that happened several thousand years ago. Of note as well is that the blood elves who blew up Exodar are enemies to the player Blood Elves.
: Hey, where'd all the comic book stuff go?
: Someone removed most of this page. I've put it back but it still needs some editing help, as I wasn't going to spend an hour fixing all the links. This Wiki needs better software to make rolling back easier.
: "Resident Evil 5 apparently takes place in Africa, and some of the Africans seem to be infected with The Virus. Seriously, Who Would Be Stupid Enough to devise such a scenario and NOT see the implications?!" — really? Sounds like a pretty straightforward AIDS metaphor to me. Of course, the idea of dealing with its victims by shooting them in the head repeatedly has its own set of implications, but not the type that this page seems to be concerned with.
- Guest: I'm removing the Resident Evil 5 example. Why? Who Would Be Stupid Enough to connect the implications? Remember, in Resident Evil 4, you had to kill an entire village of Hispanic mutants, and yet that passed. Yet shoot just ONE PERSON WITH DARK SKIN, and now you're deemed racist, as if Blacks are superior and immune to death, when everybody is equal. Who Would Be Stupid Enough? Why, the douchebag who made that example would.
Gattsuru : Resident Evil infections tend to result in massive groups of unintelligent, uber-aggressive, and xenophobic monsters that are intent on corrupted, infecting, and/or destroying anything that isn't one of them (in some cases literally impregnating victims). Following this pattern, we're going to see a pale American guy surrounded by physically powerful African individuals that refuse to attempt communication and are intent on killing whitey. I think that matches this trope a bit too well.
- Nornagest : I think you're reading too much into this. Now, if the series had always been about shooting zombified Africans in the head, that'd be different — but at game 15 or so (counting spinoffs) of a long-running series it's much simpler and more charitable to interpret it as a simple change of scenery, or as a side-effect of the adoption of an unrelated metaphor, or both.
- Rewikitty: Jeez, guys, what would be better? Placing the game in Africa and somehow having every enemy be white? Never placing a video game in Africa again? Because that's pretty much what's going to happen if people make a huge stink every time the entire cast of villains in something isn't lily-white.
- Anon: *Ahem* There might not be so huge a "stink" if the hero weren't so goddamn lily-white himself, contrasted against the unintelligent hordes. (And some things *were* said about resident evil 4, too.) There are metaphors you just should be wary of mixing up. Of course it's unintentional; that doesn't change it or somehow make it better.
- JB: Despite the game actually portraying the plight of Africa sympathetically, it's only wrong because the previously established hero is white, never mind his dark skinned partner. No, it's ok for the protagonist to mow down hordes of the living dead in America and Europe, but when it comes to Africa? Nope, it's wrong. Absurd double standards.
- Ralff: I was trying to find a picture of the tribal mask-wearing enemies to show why people are so mad, but all I could find was Sheva in a leopard-print bikini.
: I took out the Fullmetal Alchemist
example. It's a statement against
racism, so it doesn't fit here. (Plus I'm pretty sure the Iraq War began after
Hiromu Arakawa started writing FMA, too.)
: I agree with you, Filby. I also think it's a pretty good metaphor for and denunciation of colonialism in general, especially in the anime. The parallels with the colonization of North America are uncanny.
: Fullmetal Alchemist
began in 2001 and was obviously planned well ahead, and the numerous similarties between the Ishval rebellion, and the Iraq War are coincedence. The entire point of that storyline is to show the horrors of killing people because they are different from you. As for smiliarties between America and Amestris, most of the military of Amestris (especially the North and East) is protrayed as a bunch of people who joined to protect the people of Amestris. It just so happens that the entire leadership is evil, and they order the military to do evil things.
: Agreed. I think the coincidence simply stems from the fact that invasion/colonization/imperialism follows basic schemas that Arakawa identified brilliantly. And Heaven knows it's not the first time people of European ancestry and people of Middle Eastern (?) ancestry get into a big fight... As you said Charred Knight
, it's remarkable that Arakawa chose to deal with this painful topic in a nuanced way by showing how the soldiers are human beings caught in a terrible dilemma and how people such as Scar become very 'evil' themselves. It's far too easy to talk about good people and bad people, in the real world it's often a matter of circumstances and difficult choices.
Note that I don't mean it as a TakeThat
against the US etc, I'm Western European and colonialism is a big and nasty part of the history of Western Europe. Both my home country and my country of adoption are definitely guilty of this.
(Sorry for the long rant, I love discussing this aspect of FMA!)
: Yeah... I get the impression that Amestris is more like pre-war Germany than modern America, honestly. (Note that I haven't seen The Movie
.) Or really just any developed country where the military wields political clout.
: Deleted this:
- Dungeons & Dragons - Why does the black guy have to be a thief? To be fair, the white guy's a thief too. And the villains are all white.
- I'm convinced Jeremy Iron's character was part-beaver. What with all the scenery he chewed.
Because if the Justifying Edit
is too good, that just means the example doesn't belong here in the first place.
Also deleted this from Maus:
It's autobiographical. Spiegelman wrote that because his father said that. Is it even possible for an example that actually happened to have Unfortunate Implications
: Probably in extreme conditions, which doesn't include this. Thank you.
Arutema: The Firefly example, I don't remember Jubal Early trying or threatening to rape any of the female cast, can someone else confirm/deny this.
The Fedora Pirate
: I don't recall the rape threat either... but my real purpose here is the Reaver example. Unless there is some sort of Word of God
to back it up I'd like to know which native Americans exactly are Reavers reminiscent of?
: He threatens Kaylee, although I got the impression that he just saw it as part of his job and wasn't enthusiastic about it.
Also, about Susan in The Last Battle: a) she wasn't forever barred from Narnia, she just didn't enter with the rest of her family (who, you may recall, unlike her, had just died in a train accident
and b) she was "no longer a friend of Narnia" not because she wore makeup but because she refused to believe in narnia anymore. It's all right there in the book.
From Harry Potter...Anyone think the Dumbledore was gay
revelation from J.K. Rowling
had implications of the unfortunate sort? I mean, it's been a while since I read all the books, but I recall Dumbledore and Harry being alone and in close proximity more than once. Squick
. Not to mention the fact that he was headmaster of a school for young boys...
Kaybor: Gay does not mean pedophile. And he was headmaster of a school for boys and
- Unfortunately, some people's first sexual experience is as a child with an older man. Some percentage of these people never get over it, and after puberty and into adulthood equate "sex with a man" with their forced- or non-consensual experience. Some of the female victims choose non- or same-sex relationships, while some of the male victims have viceral, almost instictive reactions based upon barely suppressed memories. So, while some people who instantly assume "gay==pedo" are just narrow-minded assholes, at least some are rape victims who never got decent counseling.
: On The Horse and his Boy
: the narrator isn't impressed with most of the Calormene culture, but he gives them credit for what they get right; Aslan doesn't have that bad of an opinion of Rabadash, sparing his life (though turning him temporarily into a donkey) and hoping for his redemption; their religion is that of Babylon, Phoenecia or Carthage rather than Islam (though that point wasn't brought up here); and remember who Shasta marries at the end of the book. I think that entry should be scaled back — though the Calormenes were
a sort of civilizational Butt Monkey
, the culture that always got the traits Lewis wanted to pillory (ruthless commercialism in Dawn Treader
, where he seemed more angry at them for being hand-in-glove with the governor of those islands
than for dealing in slaves; the servile and 'overcivilized' style of the late Ottoman and Persian empires in Horse and his Boy
, and modern industrialization in
The Scourging of the The Last Battle
: Removed a Firefly example about a violent evil black man in a setting based on ~1880s America. It was immediately followed by a counter-example, and thus was not representative of implied racism in Firefly but of individual members of ethnic groups being allowed to be bastards in Firefly. I'm in favor of the latter. Yell at me if you disagree.
: Also removed a PvP
example. It described a wedding as being a turning point in life, and having an imaginary friend as ultimately harming maturity. Where are the unfortunate implications? Or any other kind?
- "the fans of the Firefly show like to refer to themselves as browncoats, after the rebels. Before the Nazi's took power members of the SA, which was later incorperated into the SS and the Gestapo, were know as brownshirts or browncloths, depending on translation."
For hopefully obvious reasons.
For the slow, just because they share a colour does not make them Nazis
: In the Harry Potter section, edited reference to Katie Cheung as an "ethnic Cantonese" actress to "ethnic Chinese". Cantonese-speakers form a linguistic group, not an ethnic one. Ethnic "Chinese" is still dubious, but it's close enough, I think.
: Would someone mind explaining the Lilo & Stitch
entry to me? I don't get it at all.
Sparky Lurkdragon: Glad to. If I can't defend it, I'll leave it out of the article since it seems to have been removed. :) Basically, the Galactic Federation can't go against its final decision re:Stitch, even though it's been proven that he is, in fact, sapient after all, and not just a crazed monster. Lilo saves him by pointing out that she bought him from the shelter; therefore taking him is stealing. And what do we call buying sapient beings? Slavery. Which is wrong, but theft is worse!
I'm almost certain Disney Studios wasn't going for "slavery is a-okay" with that, but... hoo boy I cannot watch that scene without either laughing or cringing now.
: Mm. If I'm gonna read anything more into that scene, it's "rigid and unreasonable rules are okay as long as you know where the loopholes are." Nobody believed Stitch was
sapient prior to Lilo "rehabilitating" him. He's still a non-being in the eyes of the law, and that's the part the Councilwoman can't go back on, so she found a loophole that would keep him protected in the face of that status. Her conversation with Cobra Bubbles also suggests that she has a history of doing this.
: Ninjacrat Why did you delete the Code Geass
entry? I have seen that show up in every place Code Geass is discussed.
Ninjacrat: Because of the weak wording ('some people see...') and the long string of disagreements and qualifications that followed it.
Air Of Mystery
- Another thing that's sweet about Maus: The Jewish father is highly racist against Blacks, even seemingly very nice ones (can't believe his son gave a Black a ride in their car), and the father and son do discuss racism a little bit in that light, that is, given the racism that you encountered, how can you be racist against anyone yourself?
: Hey, I'm studying just that in Psychology! It can be described by a theory called relative deprevation, which is basically "we become prejudiced when there is a gap between people who're similar to us who have done better". There's also probably elements of group conflict theory, which says when two groups compete for the same goal (recognition by authority) the members of each group are often prejudiced against the members of the other group. Or maybe it's Frustration-Aggression hypothesis, where an individual or group is prevented from achieving a goal (Nazi suppression of ethnic minorities) and the group is frustrated. They can't be aggressive towards the source because it's too powerful, so they displace their aggression onto a weaker scapegoat (the black guy).
: Or maybe being a victim of other people's racism doesn't necessarily translate into being non-racist yourself. The Jewish father in Maus sounds like my grandfather; he was interned in a Nazi labor camp and he is also racist.
- Although several mixed race couples appear in the new series, they all seem to consist of a white person with a non-white lover.
: Took this out. What's the unfortunate implication of that? That in a country which is mostly white, most mixed-race couples will have a white person in them rather than being between two members of different minority groups? That's just mathematics.
And also, this page has far too many examples of "Bad things happen. And they involved a minority. This has unfortunate implications". This is especially bad when it's applied to gender; women are 50% of the population, and if we listed every bad thing that happened to a woman as "unfortunate implications" we'd have millions of entries.
: I agree. Cuts are needed.
: I changed the Meg Griffin because she's actually abused by just about everyone. Her female classmates pick on her, her mother makes snarky comments about her supposed shortcomings and abandoned her despite promises to help her get ahead on spring break, a random reporter set herself on fire rather than answer her question, and other random examples. The males stick out because her biggest abuser is her father, a guy set to usurp Homer Simpson as T Vs
biggest jerkass (and Stan Smith is set to outdo him)
: Oh, I see what happened. Replacing previous concern with statement of understanding. And getting to work on putting back the Heroes
And removing this, due to "Actually"ism.
- The majority of Sylar victims are female.
- Not True. Sylar has killed and/or taken the powers of (or attempted to take the powers of) five female characters: Eden (who killed herself so Sylar couldn't get her power), Dale (super hearing), Charlie (super-eidetic memory), Candice (couldn't take her illusion powers) and now Claire. His male victims have been: Chandra Suresh (no powers there, just malice), Davis (telekinisis), Molly's dad (cryokinesis), Zane (melting), Isaac (precognition), Ted (radiation), Alejandro (more malice) and Peter (who got better). And in 5YG he adds Molly, but he also kills Nathan and DL. Even counting in collateral kills like Company agents, cops and Molly's mom (who wasn't his primary target) that's not a female majority.
Andrew: I deleted the chess example. If it was a joke, the joke sucked. If it was a serious entry, it was one of the dumbest things I'd ever read.
Dan: I put it back. Don't be a Stop Having Fun Guy.
We aren't That Other Wiki
. We like our jokes here regardless if you think they're stupid or not.
Ninjacrat: Deleted it again on basis of rampaging
Actually, that would make a good addition to the Tvtropes Drinking Game. "Every time somebody justfies a bad idea on the basis that 'we are not Wikipedia'", punch them in the throat. I'd play.
West of Eden? There's a problem here; the "Eurocaucasian" humans aren't the only ones around. The Sasku are pretty much Pueblo/Navajo Native Americans,, except that mammoths are important in their religion, and the Paramutan are an Arctic group with fur and tails! (In this universe, man evolved from New World monkeys, so the tails make sense...) All the human groups get along pretty well. (The Tanu are somewhat sexist - though less than the entry implies - but no more than any real culture at their technological level.) As for the Yilane, it's hardly discrimination — they plan to wipe out not just humanity, but the entire North American ecosystem. That's the point of the "ocean between us" thing; the Yilane culture warps the ecosystem so much (it's not in harmony with nature by any stretch, even though it uses biology) that human life or the animals human life depends on can't exist.
Trouser Wearing Barbarian
: I cut it. Not only is it debatable as an example, it was accumulating a ton of Natter
: Whoever added The Way Of Thorn And Thunder
, I just might have to get you a beer. "High Fashion and the Necromantic Arts
" had me tearing up with laughter, especially that part where the village elder argues about why the village should be spared. Definitely gonna pick this series up.
: Cut out a Justifying Edit
I myself made — didn't realize what I was doing until I hit submit, sorry. Also cut out this (completely incorrect) Justifying Edit
- Probably because they weren't "hispanics", but white European Spaniards. This troper wishes people would stop confusing the two.
Because, besides it being a Justifying Edit
, that troper is confusing "hispanics" and "latinos". "Hispanics" refers to folks from the area known to the ancient world as Hispania (modern-day Spain, Portugal, and Andorra), and those cultures that are descended from them (Filipinos, the various Latin-American cultures, etc). "Latinos" refers specifically to the Latin-American cultures.
Somecallmetim: I deleted the section on Harry Potter, because it was more justifying edits than anything else, not to mention being heavily spoiler-laden. Plus the justifying edits had a point.
: Massive cuts. If you wish to defend any of the examples cut, then feel free to do so by ading your comment after my justification for the removal.
Trouser Wearing Barbarian
: Thanks for trimming those. This page is really getting out of hand.
: Good call on most of those, but the Frog Princess/Princess and the Frog natter was worth it just for this exhange- # How the devil can you have an Anything-American princess, assuming she didn't get the title by marrying a foreign prince (which would have some unfortunate implications of its own when it came to the business with the frog)? Did you guys have a revolution and install a monarchy when we weren't looking?
I have a soft spot for laugh-inducing natter:)
Yeah, except hunter/gatherer societies tend to be a lot more egalitarian than pastoral or agricultural societies (like ours and the ones we're based on).
I'd like to see some references for this. I know this isn't Wikipedia, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence — and every hunter/gatherer society I've studied has had a strong division of labor, the claims of Margaret Mead et al. aside. They tend to be more egalitarian in terms of material goods, but when everyone is dirt poor and most resources are non-durable there are limits to that form of inequality.
: The Way of Thorn and Thunder
example was too good to let die. As such, it has been re-created at Our Orcs Are Different
: Could someone who knows these series confirm or deny- were the Anime characters mentioned actually based on Barack Obama or is it more of an unintentional resemblance?
: John Omaha in Air Gear
is obviously based off of Barack Obama
: Deleted Justified edits, which I will now explain. I am sick and tired of hearing the excuse "Their Japanese so they don't know any better", Cyborg009 was made in the 60's and protrayed other races with dignity, and respect so don't give me the "their Japanese" excuse. I have seen several other series that shows other races with respect, and dignity, and let me tell you something Code Geass
is abnormal. The line "Those who shoot must be prepared to be shot" just shows you that the Britannians didn't join the army to protect Britannia, but to kill people of other races. The average Britannian is racist, and evil, and at no point in time is this ever really disputed. As for Todoh being an excellent military commander, that's Informed Ability
, the one time he was given complete control of the Black Knights ended with the complete collapse of the group with nearly their entire army captured, just before the capture several members of the Black Knights said "Where's Zero?", if that's your idea of an excellent military commander than we have two different standards. I for one believe that getting nearly your entire army captured is not being even a decent military commander. At no point in time is it okay for so called heroes like the Black Knights to hook up with a guy with his own Doom Fortress, once Schneizel showed up in his DF than the BK should have immediatly made up with Lelouch, they didn't. They ditched Lelouch and instead opted for someone worse, that's just plain stupidity. The only reason Nina felt bad for what she did was the fact that nearly everyone killed in the Tokyo blast where Britannians since the actual blast never reached the Tokyo Ghetto. That and now every country wanted their own FLEIJA. From what I heard Villeta was going to get character development, but apparently they removed it, and no excuse for her actions where ever made.
- Uh, people? Climb off your high horses for a bit. Remember, this is all the perspective of Japanese writers. First, Todoh and Xingke were both presented as excellent commanders and tacticians- its just that Lelouch (and his brother) were even better strategists. The Black Knights went with Lelouch because he represented hope and they didn't know who he actually was, then with his brother because he was the one who unmasked Lelouch to them and they knew how good HE was. Second, Villetta (who is black or Latino) and Nina (who is Jewish) seem to have been ignored in the rush to judgment, both of whom were presented poorly in the beginning but redeemed themselves to varying extents. And don't forget that the role of villain is almost exclusively in the hands of white men, right down to the various nameless soldiers. They're not really Unfortunate Implications, more like cultural dissonance.
- Nerem: Also, the reason why the Black Knights fell apart after Zero disappeared is because their commander and shining hope suddenly abandons them, and Todoh, a very capable leader, is not able to reverse total morale loss thanks to a stupid action by their messiah. ... Also, the line of "Those who shoot must be prepared to be shot" means "Those who are prepared to kill must be prepared to be killed", which basically means "Don't attack if you can't handle the counterattack", it has nothing to do with "They want to kill other races". In fact, I'm deleting the entire section, because I can only think of one black person on the cast, and that's Viletta. I'm guessing you're trying to talk about the white, Britannian gangster, though the sterotype used for him is the fat Japanese yakuza.
Trouser Wearing Barbarian
: Cut this, because it's supposed
to be wrong and creepy in context.
- The ending of Manos: The Hands of Fate which featured a little girl marrying the Big Bad. It doesn't get much more Unfortunate than that.
- Not more unfortunate, but I think we are beyond implication at that point.
- Don't forget the "Female Characters get -2 Strength/+1 Charisma" rule that was dropped from later editions.
: Which edition was this? I had both the red box and 1st edition AD&D, and neither had this rule. Unless we're talking about a very
early edition, somebody got his DM's sexist house rules mixed up with the official rules of the game.
- Gemmifer: The minus strength points are accurate. I'm a woman and I don't feel I'm losing face when I tell you that women don't possess the same amount of muscle as men. What's sexist about representing that in your game?
- Meems: Having played AD&D, I think the main problems are that women don't get any corresponding bonuses, making it always a bad decision (from a stat-optimising point of view) to play woman, and possibly that it applied to all races. (Men may be physically stronger IRL, but our world only has humans - who knows what the case would be with dwarves, elves, half-orcs etc.)
: Cutting and rewriting the Code Geass
part. If you disagree with anything, feel free to make your case in a polite manner.
- The storyline of Code Geass is about Japan rebelling against the evil Britannian Empire, which is supposed to be based on the British Empire but somehow its current homeland is in America, after having lost the British Isle to French centuries ago. This has caused people to believe that this depiction is xenophobic/anti-American, even though the main character is Britannian and the occasional good Britannian does show up.
Brittania is not a stand-in for the United States of America
. People who claim that it is are wrong.
- The only non-white Knight of Rounds is killed in a couple of seconds and we don't even get to see her in an unique mecha, to boot; Rakshata is the only non-white, non-East Asian that is shown in a positive light. The less said about King, the black pimp with blond hair, the better.
- Yeah, so we have Kallen and Anya...but two female Knights of Rounds got killed in a couple of seconds, as did two Valkyrie pilots in an earlier episode.
C.C. Nunnally. Kallen. Anya. Sayoko. Cornelia. Cécile. Kayuga. All of them competent and/or compassionate. Seriously, where does the "Code Geass
is sexist" argument even come from?
- The quick and unceremonious defeat of the EU just prior to Zero's founding of the UFN results in what was ostensibly going to be a conflict between Britannia and the whole Eastern Hemisphere becoming little more than "Britannia vs. China and Japan". While it probably had more to do with the fact that the series was running out of episodes by that point than ethnocentrism, it could still be misconstrued...
I don't see the Unfortunate Implications
. Anyone care to explain?
Complaining About Characters You Don't Like
- The Japanese battle for independence is entirely dependent on Lelouch, a white man, to lead them, and as soon as he disappears the entire thing falls apart. When the Black Knights finally do figure out that Lelouch has lied to them, they hook up with Lelouch's half brother Schneizel, because apparently Japanese need a white man to tell them what to do. The ending isn't much better with the Britannians having reasonably intelligent people leading them but the Japanese people are all incompetent leaders like Ougi, and Suzaku, who is an excellent soldier but is an Idiot Hero
- If Ougi survives the last battle and becomes the Japanese Premier whereas Suzaku becomes an efficient second Zero and Empress Nunnally's right hand, then they're not as incompetent as people claim. This specific bit has less to do with Unfortunate Implications and more to do with the fanbase hating them for not always bowing to Lelouch.
- Suzaku is a deconstruction of the Idiot Hero, and Ougi's main characteristic was that he was a nice guy over his head, and that was when he was leading a small terrorist cell. Lelouch was the sole leader of the Black Knights as made obvious by their inability to do anything between season 1 and 2, and the One Sided Battle that happened after Lelouch left.
- Lelouch was a very Tragic Hero with both strengths and flaws, but people tend ot think of him as some sort of Perfect Messiah who can't do anything wrong and whose enemies are pretty much MEANIES purely because they oppose him. When both he and Suzaku went off the deep end, people bent either over and backwards to excuse Lelouch yet didn't hesitate to bash Suzaku even when both were in the wrong end, and when Ohgi was in a leadership position that he did NOT fit in (this being lampshaded by his own companions), lots of the complains form the fanbase came less from Ohgi's leadership mistakes and more from how dared he be angry at Lelouch's behavior towards the Black Knights. ( Nevermind that Lelouch lied more than once to the BK, frequently used them as expendable pawns and all that jazz, thus his downfall was at least partially his own fault (or maybe a part of his plan, Magnificent Bastard that he is) ). Calling them "incompetent" and "idiots" is oversimplifying the whole deal, and it also confirms the complains about Lelouch being able to escape any criticism for his actions.
: Its more that I noticed that the Japanese never had a real leader, the closest they had was Todoh whose only real chance for leadership ended with nearly the complete capture of the Black Knights.
Lavode: About the Wheel of Time
: was there ever a scene where Perrin spanked her? Most of the time Faile just steamrolls over Perrin. I think their was a couple of scenes where Perrin takes the lead but its mostly Faile such as the ending of the Shaido storyline where Faile takes over as soon as she meets Perrin.
Lavode: Yes. The Shadow Rising
, ch. 4. It isn't explicit, but still quite clear:
"With a snarl, he seized her by the scruff of her neck and... Well, it was her own fault. It was. He had asked her not to hit him, told her. Her own fault... She had been furious, of course. [...] But she did not seem even the tiniest bit angry with him any longer. That made him nervous. She had only stared at him, her dark eyes glistening with unshed tears, which made him feel guilty, which in turn made him angry. Why should he be guilty? Was he supposed to stand there and let her hit him to her heart’s content? She had mounted Swallow and sat there, very stiff-backed, refusing to sit gingerly, staring at him with an unreadable expression. It made him very nervous." Bolds mine.
It's after that scene that she starts saying things like, "Have you not tamed me, my husband, and taught me to perch on your wrist?"
She hit him first (which is bad, of course) but he could easily have stopped her without spanking her, and if not he should leave her. But it is portrayed as a healthy, loving relationship.
My point is that Faile wanted Perrin to force her to submit and that this is a sort of running theme in the series. (Remember the Logain-bonded Aes Sedai who seduced him and commented afterwards that sleeping with a big strong man while unable to channel was "strangely exhilarating"?)
: I don't understand the unfortunate implications of the Doctor not loving Martha Jones back, and Martha finding a new white boyfriend pretty soon after. Could somebody explain? It seems to me that the Doctor simply still missed Rose too much to even think about falling in love with someone else, and that Martha got over him (maybe it was just a crush), and that she doesn't care what race her boyfriend is.
- Though I can understand that cut, I think it was some of the rest of the Doctor Who cuts are excessive. Especially since there has been a huge amount of commentary in fandom critiquing the way that the only two black companions in the history of the show both left because they felt unappreciated by the Doctor.
: What could possibly be the unfortunate implication of Carmen Sandiego? So she's Latina; she's also made of awesome.
Trouser Wearing Barbarian
: This page is getting ridiculous. Actually, it's been pretty ridiculous for quite some time now. Half the examples would fit comfortably on other pages (Values Dissonance
, Stay in the Kitchen
, Ethnic Scrappy
, etc.) - in fact, quite a few of them are
on these pages already. The other half can be chalked up to people reading way
too much into things just to be offended by them. In fact, it's not uncommon for Hatedom
to go out of their way to find Unfortunate Implications
in something they dislike (sometimes to the point of making them up
) just so they can have an excuse to complain
Am I the only who thinks this page shouldn't have any examples? It already functions fine as an index, and the examples have produced enough arguments
as it is. Plus, some of them are downright silly.
: I don't think it's gotten to that point quite yet.
Trouser Wearing Barbarian
I'm seriously tempted to cut the Kim Possible
entry because I've seen enough Complaining
about it on this wiki (were these people even watching the same show?), but I know someone will just add it back in an hour later.
- And I, the original writer of that very edit, removed it.
: How is the Happy Feet
example so unfortunate? They're not displaying the "Hispanic" penguins as bad.
(As for the treatment of religion, well. I have heard plenty about people having issues with that.
And while we're at it, the Pirates of the Caribbean
example. So... non-white antagonists aren't allowed anymore? And if they are, they aren't allowed to try and beat the protagonists, as antagonists are wont to do? And then, after complaining about them being in the story because they're not
white, you complain about a lack of non-white guys on screen after they're gone. Yeaaaah.
Trouser Wearing Barbarian
: Whatever happened to that Minority Antagonist YKTTW
from a while back, anyway?
: @LooneyToons: What did my em-dashes ever do to you
to make them deserve unnecessary hyphens as chaperones?
Ashwood : removed
" At one point in Eclipse he sexually assaults Bella; then, when she breaks her hand trying to defend herself, essentially tells her to lay back and think of England
so she won't get hurt any more. Edward, Bella's main love interest, is Caucasian and refuses to have sex with her before marriage for fear of hurting her. But . . .
- Also when Bella's father learns that Jacob sexually assaulted her and broke her hand, he laughs with Jacob and encourages him to do it again.
- Wait, seriously? That isn't out of context or anything? DAMN. D:"
from the from the Twilight Race entry. The sexual assault was a kiss, Bella doesn't hurt her hand defending herself, she punches Jacob after the kiss because she is mad at him. The father knows both those facts when he congratulates Jacob for kissing her.
- So a father being happy that his daughter was hanging around a guy she had to hit to get to stop touching her is perfectly normal and healthy?
... don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you should be having children any time in the foreseeable ever.
: Is it just me, or does the Twilight entry require lots of cleaning? It pretty much turned into an excuse for Take That!
and Complaining About Shows You Don't Like
I deleted this:
- It deserves mentioning that, while the male characters exist independently of their significant others, none of the female characters (yes, the Sparklepires too,) have any characterization outside of their male love interests. For example, if you were describing Esme, no one would know who you were talking about unless you said "She's Carlisle's wife."
Because it's not true. Alice has much more personality than Jasper, he's the one who you'd have to describe as "Alice's mate," and Ben is the one who wouldn't exist outside of being Angela's boyfriend, so much that they were able to cut him from the movie. Leah and Jessica have just as much personality as Sam and Mike, if not more. Rosalie has a hell of lot more back story and development than Emmett, and it would be possible to remove him from the story without changing Rosalie's purpose as a character at all. Then there’s Zafrina and her Amazon girlfriends, the Denali coven, and Jane, who exist separately from male love interests because they don't have any. The Esme thing is a pretty big stretch. I would say the only character who fits this description is Victoria, the main villain. Seriously, guys, there's enough wrong with this series that you don't have to make stuff up.
: Hokuto, I took a look at the "Twilight" section and deleted the following:
- Stephanie Meyer is a Mormon, a religion which believes the Native Americans are descended from Jews (well, from the Hebrew tribes of ancient Israel). She writes a book in which Native Americans are descended from wolves (or at least, that's what was said in the movie). This troper choked on his popcorn when he realized that unfortunate implication in the theater.
By that logic, Dante's "The Divine Comedy" is anti-Christian. Why? Because Catholics believe that the Pope is Christ's vicar on the earth. Dante puts at least two Popes in hell in his "Inferno." The Unfortunate Implication, then, is that Christ/Christians/Catholicism/Christianity belong in hell and that their followers will go there. Of course, anyone who's read Inferno, Purgatory, and Paradise knows that Dante's work is more pro-Christian than probably anything else ever written by a lay person in the history of Western Civilization.
Anyway, I don't think that the Unfortunate Implications from the deleted section are part of "Twilight." To me, an Unfortunate Implication is apparent in the work itself, and not dependent on esoteric, obscure knowledge gleaned from outside sources.
: I'm not sure I see the analogy. (First all, the Mary Sue Author Avatar
is a Christian, and not belonging in Hell.) If the Popes weren't leaders but some ethnic group considered to be Cursed Hebrews, and Dante didn't condemn them to hell but made them into werewolves... Okay, maybe it's all just too friggin' weird for there to be a good analogy somewhere. But I don't think a Mormon belief is exactly esoteric (or that it would matter if it were, considering it's a known aspect of the author's
: I'd say that analogy pokes holes in most examples in this article, probably better than it does this particular one. But refering to this case, I think the outside knowledge is not so much Mormon belief (although it does come into it) but the fact that Stephanie Meyer is a Mormon. Are readers expected to know the religion of every author they read? Secondly "descended from wolves" is an oversimplification to the point of being completely untrue, and there's no indication anywhere in the books that it's either a bad thing (quite the contrary) or that it has some bizarre connection with Mormon teachings. And perhaps Dante would have considered werewolves Always Chaotic Evil
but it's pretty clear that Meyer doesn't (the book is about freaking vampires, for Scrivan's sake!)
: I don't think that's how Unfortunate Implications
work. Depictions of the dominant group (Christians in that case) work pretty differently from depictions of historically oppressed/minority groups.
Whether the portrayal is intentionally insulting doesn't matter; the story doesn't exist in a vacuum, it exists in a cultural context. How many readers notice the connection (nobody's being "expected" to notice it) doesn't really enter into it; it's there.
: If you think the point of The Divine Comedy
analogy is Christianity, you missed the point. The point is that that's
not how Unfortunate Implications
work, a character being a member of any group doesn't mean that that character's characterisation is a comment on that particular group. There are far too many examples that are basically "Character X is a bad guy/has some character flaw/doesn't fit my fanfic
and is also gay/black/female/all three" and that's not what this trope is about (at least, I hope not).
But as far as the Twilight example goes, that's all irrelevant because the connection does not
exist. The shapeshifting is a good thing, the Native Americans are portrayed in nothing but a good light, and whatever Mormons believe doesn't come into the story anywhere.
Neil Stephenson's Cryptonomicon features a scene where the protagonist, a computer scientist, finds himself embroiled in an argument with some academics whose field seems to be sociology. They basically accuse him of perpetuating an unequal system by belonging to a field so dominated by white men and of turning a blind eye to the existence of privilege in society; he hotly insists that he had to work extremely hard to get where he is, and that anyone who was prepared to do the same should be able to as well. He's clearly meant to be the voice of common sense among a bunch of pretentious ivory tower-dwellers - but no one calls him out for more or less saying that the reason women and non-whites are underrepresented in many fields is because they're just not prepared to work hard enough.
I haven't read the scene in question for a few years, but that seems to rely on a few too many assumptions for it to be a clear implication. Randy isn't making a positive argument at all — he's denying that he's an agent of oppression and the beneficiary of a system covertly arranged to make things easy for white men and difficult for everyone else, and he's pointing to the hard work he's put in as evidence of that. There are any number of reasons why underrepresented groups might be inclined not to enter the field at all
; indeed, if you look at trends of major selection in university, this does in fact seem to be the case.
Bottom line: "women and minorities are underrepresented" + "white men need to work hard" + "hard workers are likely to succeed regardless of gender/class/ethnicity" does not
add up to "women and minorities are lazy". Admittedly, as a computer scientist I do feel obliged to stand up for my field.
: He does seem to be denying the existence of white privilege completely though. That's something. Logically those statements don't perfectly add up, but they leave small enough gaps that it does sound like an implication (based on my never having read the book and just what the example says, mind).
: If Cryptonomicon
was making a blanket statement about employment opportunities in general, I'd agree. But it's not; it's about a fairly narrow field in general and one person in particular. Looking at it in that context, I think it's reasonable to take the protagonist's objection at face value — particularly since, as a member of that field, I can confidently state that what he says is
accurate in its essentials. Lest I be branded a racist for saying that, I should probably mention that whites make up a minority of both my college department and my current workplace.
: I'm opening a "Artistic License - Geography
" page. Just because.
: How did this page get devoted to racism and sexism? Because there shirley are enough twisted aesops to go around.
: Because that's Broken Aesop
. Racism and sexism are this page's bread and butter because those are the usual sources of bad implications.
: Anyway, I did some housecleaning. Got rid of a bunch of examples and many a Justifying Edit
that had cropped up over time, and added a disclaimer to discourage such things in the future. I mean, come on people. They're implications. As long as someone sees them and is unsettled by them, they count. Fanwankery notwithstanding. Special mention to the troper who thought it was Fan Dumb
that Avatar fans were complaining because Zuko was "the wrong kind of Asian". Yes, that's right. How stupid of them to be irritated because Shamalayan apparently thinks all Asian people look alike. Definitely no Unfortunate Implications
: Still a nest of "this editor", "this troper" junk.
Dragon Quest Z
: What terms would you prefer?
: None. That is, the examples could be written with the writer not referring to himself. The examples start drifting into natter when it is plain that opinions/anecdotes are being offered. Someone always has a different opinion or a better anecdote.
@Some Guy: Looks like your overhaul got Edit Stomp'd by an anon. Hope you saved a copy. Oh, you already know.
: Nope. Had to do it again from scratch, unfortunately. I don't think it's as good a clean-up, either, since my heart wasn't as in it. Figure I'll add another note- a lot of the removed stuff was about Black people in Japan. Somehow that entire section got into a mess of subversions, aversions and Justifying Edits. Black people in Japan might be worthy of its own trope, but I honestly can't fathom why everyone thought it was a good idea to frontload this article with a bunch of Natter
about Black characters who "really aren't racist caricatures, even though they look like it". It almost, almost
, makes me understand why anti-anime hatedoms are so upset about Anime
always coming first.
: Finished it up based on the history.
The Chris Claremont X-Men Depraved Bisexual example should probably stay though.
Or it could go on the Depraved Bisexual page
, actually; never mind.
: Wait, waitwait... how did we get from Tom and Jerry
and the Irish onto Gone with the Wind
? I think this is leftover from someone deleting the top-level bullet point it was originally replying to, who apparently missed this bit.
- That may be more because the newer generation just didn't know what Gone With The Wind was anymore. It's become one of those "Movies you know about" instead of "Movies you should have/probably have watched." And whenever GWTW comes up who are the only two mentioned? That's right, Rhett and Scarlett. After all the rest of this page has numerous modern-day examples, so that likely would not have been the reasoning behind the switch.
: Could we please not remove the important note and the bolding next time? All the Justifying Edits
get annoying, especially since how something seemingly innocuous can be misinterpreted
is essentially part of the trope. Although, if anyone else thinks they can put it much better, go ahead. Just make sure it's there and clearly visible so that people can see it before they start posting.
: The all-bold was too much. Let's try this.
: The problem isn't the justifying edits. The problem is that regardless of the definition of the page, most people use it to make accusations of racism. The justifying edits are a reaction to this.
: I know justifying edits suck, but I can see why everyone wants to add them to this page. For example the High School Musical one about "skin tone compatibility". In context, it's not a racist statement (and the character is a villain anyway.) But people who haven't watched it see this page and think "What a horrible, racist show." I don't particularly care about High School Musical, but I imagine plenty of tropers aren't happy when they see the same thing done to Their Show
. I know this page is specifically about things that can be taken out of context, but some of it comes off as purposely misleading.
: Your Mileage May Vary
. I see a lot of the shows I really like accused of racism or other such heinous stuff for things taken out of context. Those don't bother me at all. As for the stuff I haven't seen before, I keep in mind that the trope is subjective and try not to pass judgement before I've seen it. Speaking of which, why doesn't this trope have a "Subjective Trope" tag tacked onto it?
Cambias: The first H.P. Lovecraft example is factually incorrect. That isn't the ending of "The Horror At Red Hook." HARH is
a racist story, but it's anti-Semitic and generally xenophobic, but doesn't mention "Negroes" at all. I'm having a hard time tracking down the story that is the source of that quote — which leads me to suspect it's an obscure piece, possibly one unpublished during Lovecraft's lifetime. All of which indicates the example should be cut unless someone can provide the correct story cite.
I cut this part out; if someone can find an accurate source we can restore it:
- A good (and shocking) example is this passage, the final twist of "The Horror at Red Hook":
"[She] was faintly, subtly, yet to the eyes of genius unmistakably the scion of Zimbabwe's most primal grovellers.... [T]hough in deceitfully slight proportion, Marceline was a negress."
: I googled "to the eyes of genius" and got Wikipedia's Lovecraft page; it's apparently "Medusa's Coil," ghostwritten by Lovecraft for Zealia Bishop
. Whoever added it didn't quite read the whole line on Wikipedia and mixed the two stories up.
Carcinos: In the One More Day example, there's this added: "This may actually fly right past Unfortunate Implications and straight into downright homophobia. One of John Quesada's friends (Guggenheim), in defending Spider-Man "One More Day" has said that "if anyone is upset about the marriage going away, then they must all be pro gay marriage.""
What the heck is Guggenheim talking about?
: I don't even read comics, but found an interview: "Everything that happened in the last twenty plus years of comic book history happened! The only difference is that Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson weren't married. They still dated. They still lived together. They still love each other. They just weren't married. Judging from the letters and death threats we received, I think some people were confused. It all still happened."
"Here's my attitude, if anyone is upset about the marriage going away, then they must all be pro gay marriage. Because if you're pro gay marriage, you understand the distinction between a marriage and a civil union — that a civil union is not equal to a marriage. We downgraded Mary Jane and Peter to a civil union. If that bothers you, then you're pro gay marriage."
: His logic does not resemble our Earth logic.
: Insane troll logic
Trouser Wearing Barbarian
: How on Earth does Nightmare Fuel Station Attendant
have Unfortunate Implications
Monsund:Readded Resident evil 5 while Capcom didn't intend it, its pretty noticiticable and gathers attention. Theres even a scene of two black men advancing on a white woman. True you have Sheva but she has very light skin. Resident Evil 4 counts too I'd say.
Sleet Wintergreen: In regards to the repeated deletion of:
"There's an diary
you can find that states that the parasite-induced psychosis made them "dress like their ancestors" but not everyone will find that..."
referring to the loincloth wearing spear throwing Africans in Resident Evil 5, I don't see what the problem is here. One, it's not a Justifying Edit as it is integrated properly into the entry and isn't trying to "justify" anything. Two, it's merely pointing out that the game does include an explanation for why the villagers are dressed like that, and is saying "hey, these are modern day Africans who don't dress like this normally, but they've all gone crazy and this is a symptom." But as finding the diary is optional, not everyone will notice that.
If you think it "doesn't make any sense" feel free to reword it. But it does need to be pointed out, and I shall continue to do so if it gets deleted again.
Monsund: It just doesn't make sense and it isn't really important. I mean the ganados never dressed in primitve hollywood clothes why should their African counterparts?
- On a side note, anyone notice the resemblance between the worship of pain in both Drow and Ilwrath cultures? (And the Ilwrath are spiders to boot!)
This is pure Natter
: Just a note: Bitchwatch '08.
- This turns up a lot in ad-generators based on page content, such as the ones at the top and side of this page. For instance, the Religion of Evil page will sometimes turn up an ad for...a Muslim dating site.
- Oddly enough, I always end up with "Christian Singles" dating websites.
Reason: No one is picking which ads go on which pages. There's a comletely non-context-sensitive algorithm that loks for key words on the page and assigns ads accordingly.
- On TV 1, a network aimed at African-Americans, commercials for Popeye's Chicken are often rotated.
Popeye's Chicken buys those ads because they've found that Americans of African descent are
a large part of their customer base.
- The first couple of the X-Men: Cyclops and Phoenix. Phoenix dies (again). Within six issues, Scott is playing tonsil-hockey with Emma Frost literally on top of Jean's grave.
He's a cad, but that's not sexist. Someone more familiar with the Marvel 'verse than I am needs to lok at the rest of that section.
That justification is pretty convincing.
- Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest pulls a hat trick. During the "cannibal savages" sequence (one!), Will and the other white guys must outclimb all the ethnic people to reach the top of the ravine. They stop to avoid alerting a guard... and then the ethnic crewmembers flash evil grins and start climbing again (two!). But their rope snaps and the cage of bones they're in plummets into the ravine, leaving the crew to be composed entirely of white guys (three!). Oh, Disney.
I must be missing something here. Is it that the cannibal savages are an ethnicity other than white? That Will and the other two are white? That the guys chasing the heroes don't succeed in catching them? What's the racist implication?
- Hot Fuzz, enjoyable as the action and silliness are, does rather seem to imply that anyone who doesn't believe in 'tough on crime' policies is really acting for deeply selfish reasons - possibly to further their own mass-murderin'.
- Although to be fair, the NWA were only against 'tough on crime' policies in order to prevent crime statistics from soiling Sandford's reputation as the 'best village'. Besides, after the perpetrators are released from jail without charge, the NWA tracks them down and murders them to prevent them from reoffending. If that's not tough on crime, I don't know what is!
- Isn't the stated position of NWA, "Fuck the police?"
- Wrong group. NWA in the movie is "Neighbourhood Watch Alliance."
- Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark: it is totally okay and even heroic to sneak onto someone else's land without permission and steal their most valued treasure - as long as they don't speak your language, wear as much clothing as you do or have your skin colour. But it's deeply uncool to swipe something from a white guy in a hat who speaks English.
- ...What? If anything, the mitigating factor is "to keep it out of the hands of Those Wacky Nazis."
Justification holds up.
- David Lean's Ryan's Daughter is full of Unfortunate Implications. The supposedly Irish heroine is played by the very English Sarah Miles, given an English name (Rosy) and contrasted heavily with the ugly, loud, cruel and stupid locals played by Irish actors and actresses.
1) Casting almost never worries about the nationality of the actor vice the nationalit of the character. 2) Names that can be shortened to "Rosy" are not exclusively English; Rosaleen is Gaelic in origin and has been in use since the 16th century.
- Sauron's human followers were at least acknowledged as human when Sam watches one of them fall in combat and wonders what lies and threats tore him from his family to die in a foreign land... but still, none of them are ever given names, dialog, or motivation.
They were nameless and faceless because they were extras, not because of their ethnicity. The only time the extras on the heroes side got names, dialog or motivation is when they directly interacted with the heroes.
- Let's not forget good old fashioned British classism. The hobbits are upper middle class English country gentlemen, whilst at the other end of the scale, the orcs (with a couple of exceptions) speak like London dockworkers. The trolls near the beginning of The Hobbit fit the general stupid and smelly archetype and talk in a way which is hardly "drawing room fashion".
- Are you talking about the books or the movies? Because orcs were not portrayed as anything British, indeed most speak quite well when they talk, some in an over the top, villainous manner, others in a gruff but relatively normal way, nothing about them in the books was supposed to come off as 'dock worker' or 'cockney'.
Ah, yes, let's blame Jackson's choices on Tolkien. You want to talk about the movie, put it in the Film section, not the Literature section.
- A good argument can be made that H.P. Lovecraft's entire body of work can be traced back to a combined fear of sex, foreigners, and seafood. His later work tones down the racism, and now our "genetically inferior" villains are just deformed or inbred.
- Not all the unfortunate-ness of Lovecraft is implied. On more than one occasion he came right out and made statements showing a degree of racism appalling even for his era. A good (and shocking) example is this passage, the final twist of "Medusa's Coil" (ghostwritten for someone else, mind):
"[She] was faintly, subtly, yet to the eyes of genius unmistakably the scion of Zimbabwe's most primal grovellers.... [T]hough in deceitfully slight proportion, Marceline was a negress."
- Appaling even for his era? All racism is appaling, but i think you'll find that his racism was highly typical of the era - he was writing at a time when Birth of a Nation was being hailed as a great work and lynchings even occured in the north. Plus he was a WAS Py New Englander, and blacks wern't all too common in the suburbs of colonial, anglo saxon suburban Providence, so go figure.
- Indeed, his Jewish wife divorced him over his inability to get over his own anti-Semitism. She dreaded going to dinner parties with her husband. He'd often start up a rant on the Jews that would embarrass her.
- Though when xenophobia was explicitly made the very point of work (including things like "A-a-a-a! Fish eyes, they have fish eyes! And fins!"), specific outpourings of it hardly can be counted as unfortunate implications.
- There's also an incident in Loamhedge that is... less than sensitive to wheelchair-users. Martha, who has been confined to a wheelchair all her life, gets up and walks to save the Abbot; she says afterward that she was only impaired by a lack of willpower.
So? Is there an implication somehow that all people in wheelchairs are like that?
- A Noble Savage tribe in Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series are also called "mud people", but that's the name they proudly take for themselves; they took the name from their use of mud as camouflage (presumably after watching Predator).
They named themselves that. How does that imply racism or sexism?
- ...The other one is about Susan Pevensie's absence at the end of the Last Battle, sometimes interpreted as "being barred from Heaven for liking lipstick and nylons," thus rejecting Narnia. So she's left alive, but orphaned and completely alone in post-war England.
She's not bared for liking lipstick and nylons, and she has
rejected Narnia, laughing about it as 'that game we played when we were children.'
- Then there's that moment in the Last Battle, where the protagonists disguise themselves as Calormenians with dark skin-paint. After they wash the stuff off, one of them exclaims something in the vein of "I feel like a human being, again".
- If you've ever worn heavy face paint, e.g., for clowning, you'll know what a huge relief it is to take it off, in much the same way as when you take a shower after a particularly hot and sweaty day of work. You sort of do feel human again. No apologies offered for "good white Narnians", though.
- Eustace. That guy was a walking manifestation of this trope, and a strawman to boot. Your parents don't smoke or drink? Then you're a snob. Being raised as a pacifist? Then, by taking a vow not to fight or kill, you are automatically the world's rudest and most immoral person because you don't fight (irony, much?)...you're also a wimpy coward. And of course, they made Eustace become nice after he decided they were right. Also, a rather disturbing turn of phrase shows up when Peter Pevensie is described, multiple times, as being "cold", killing his enemies easily, and that being so cold is what makes him nice, as that's what it means to be a good Narnian. I couldn't even finish the book because it was such Values Dissonance. To be fair the usage of the word cold might have had a different connotation back then.
- Some of this is more Values Dissonance than Unfortunate Implications. Just after WWII, pacifism was seen in much of the western world as foolishness at best, more likely cowardice, and often considered the next thing to treason. CS Lewis shared that view, as he made clear in Mere Christianity, so it is unsurprising that he painted it in a negative light in Narnia.
rather than Unfortunate Implications
- Lewis also manages to communicate through his description of Eustace's parents and the school they send him to that he thinks "liberal" and "progressive" mean "a bunch of damn hippies who want to overturn the traditions that made Britain great". Examples of these sins include children calling teachers or parents by their first names and coeducational schools.
Those are minor aspects of the school. The important one is that the children are encouraged to be bullies, sneaks and are assured that they are very special and they should have and do whatever they want, that they need have no concern for others.
- Albert Camus' novel The Stranger has this in its infamous "shooting the Arab" incident. Heroic Sociopath Mersault shoots an Algerian Arab (never named) for a spurious reason *, and is only executed because the judge is repelled by his atheism. Camus has been criticized by those who don't really get it for not seeing the racist implications of this incident, occurring in a setting of Algeria when it was a French Colony. It's worth noting that in actual colonial courts, this kind of attitude was quite common. It was very rare to see a member of the Imperial country be prosecuted for killing a member of the occupied country, and in the unusual event the issue was brought to court, they could usually get off on the flimsiest of excuses. That makes this just as much Values Dissonance as it is Unfortunate Implications.
, not Unfortunate Implications
- Wonderfully subverted twice by Mat: He's essentially raped by Tylin and then proceeds to get married to a woman who could arguably go to war with Rand al'Thor and stand a decent chance of succeeding.
- Subverted also by Tuon and her family: In Randland, the people with the dark skin are the highest possible ruling class in the largest known empire in the world.
As noted above, Unfortunate Implications
is not subvertable.
- Gone with the Wind. Goddamn. Period-Appropriate Racism, and all that, but... how exactly does that explain the fact that all the white people speak the King's English and all the black people speak in dialect?
- Ah... wouldn't most agricultural workers (slave or free) speak some kind of rural dialect? Depicting plantation slaves with a stereotyped dialect is offensive, but depicting plantation slaves as speaking educated English would be very much out of place.
- The dialect of the southern aristocracy, on the other hand, while not quite the King's English, would have been a lot closer than what the slaves were speaking.
- ...and it goes on. Like we said...you could fill a book. Three 500-page books, in fact.
Context-dependent ad-inserting algorithm? Yeah. So why there are no "implications"? I don't get how it's justified or something. This algorithm in its current form does it, does it much more than one day before quick patch
, and is obviously bound to
do exactly this. Did it naturally evolved on Mars, so it just happened and there's no one to blame? It didn't. Someone made it, someone uses it — just like with that
rootkit. It's automatic and not manually controlled? So what? Would repeated planting of landmines on the street become nice for the same reason?.. Hmmm... perhaps it must be a trope... "Blame The Bullet
As to the things like Indiana's selective targetting... Come on. Specifics of an historical setting (Gone with the Wind
, The Stranger
) or its imitation is one thing, fiction-but-interconnected is another, but specific justifications
in fiction are very easy
. Still, when something is consistently done (hastily justified or not) in some cases and isn't in another, here's a correlation. And thus possible... "implication". Much the same for strawman variant, like Susan Pevensie and "mud people": anything
can be "justified" on this level by the power of an arbitrary Ass Pull
. As we see from these justifications, such a disclaimer requires only one short phrase — and then what, all Unfortunate Implications
of authors who ever bothered to cover that place with a single little leaf are just instantly gone in one puff of a holy strawman-smoke?..
: Exactly. Thanks for saying that better than I could. Factual errors in the descriptions here are one thing, but It Makes Sense in Context
"justifications" don't just erase the problem. If justifications meant anything, then you could just as easily say "*member of persecuted minority* is only getting gruesomely executed in *propaganda film* because they're obviously a Card-Carrying Villain
who ate babies onscreen, not because of their minority status! So anyone who thinks *propaganda film* is racist is just being frivolous."
About the removals:
- The first two (advertising): What Beholder said.
- X Men: Ditto what Freezer said.
- Rules of Engagement: Implication is heavy, subtly Unreliable Narrator or no.
- Pirates of the Caribbean: It's a threefer, like the parentheses imply. It looks like a combination of "Non-white people are cannibal savages," "non-white people can't be trusted," "non-white people always die, and rather easily."
- Hot Fuzz: The first bullet point wasn't natter.
- Indiana Jones: Doesn't change the fact that the white guy stealing from the non-whites has a Good Reason and shouldn't be questioned, but only evil people try to steal in turn from the white guy.
- Ryan's Daughter: So, They Just Didn't Care. Don't see how that negates the example. And if they didn't then why are all the boorish cast members genuinely Irish?
- The lord of the rings / Sauron: The fact that none of the ethnic characters are important enough to talk is part of the problem in the first place. (The classism thing is definitely not a book thing, though.)
- H.P. Lovecraft: Okay, just confused here. What justification?
- Loamhedge: Uh, yes. There is.
- Sword of Truth: You can have them name themselves "The 'We Are Inferior To The White Guys' people", too, dunno how that would make it okay. The characters do what the author wants them to do.
- Susan Pevensie: Yeah, but the fact that the two things are tied up together in the same character still makes it an implication.
- dark skin-paint: It's still way too easy to interpret the sentence otherwise. Like, 50/50.
- Eustace: Okay, that goes to the Values Dissonance page.
- the school: All of the important aspects making it a blatant Strawman School of everything Lewis hates.
- The Stranger: You're right.
- Mat: Also right.
- Gone with the Wind: There's a difference between historical accuracy and stereotyped. Restored in a condensed form.
- Eragon: You're right, natter. It was funny in a Take That! way, though.
JBD: The bit about Supernatural really should be trimmed up or just taken out given it ignores or distorts a few things about the show. namely the racism and sexism aspects, given the only demon Dean insulted like that was Ruby-and possibly Lilith- and he had it thrown in his face for it. As for racism, it ignores the good black characters on the show and lists Henriksen as an example of an evil black buy when we clearly see he's a good guy who helps the boys when he realizes he was wrong-and he had damned good reason to hunt them anyways...and as for the one turning evil there...last I checked, another white character did so as well. And was way less sympathetically portrayed. Definitely needs to be fixed up there.
: Henriksen's an antagonist, and dead, like the other four black guys. (One survivor: the old retired hunter.) Cassie and Tamara both survive at least, but the guys are screwed.
Look up at the 'Bitchwatch' link above; it's not just Ruby and Lilith. The comebacks are nice, the times when they happen at least, but all the unchallenged ones and just the total number are really noticeable in season 3.
JB: Several further problems....the survivor thing throws it a bit out of whack, especially given nothing is ever made of any of the characters' race. Henriksen being an antagonist shouldn't take a back seat to him being a genuinely good person, which the article omits. Oh, and you also missed the psychic Missouri for survivors..plus there was the episode with Cassie where the villain was the ghost of an evil racist, with most of the episode have a 'racism is wrong' aesop. As for that link, a good chunk of the insults from the episodes are either directed at the villains/demons or just random cursing. It's also ignoring the examples of positive female characters portrayed throughout. There's a point where they cease to be unfortunate implications and just become selective viewing, like the famous Firefly roasting.
: It's not "ignoring" a positive aspect to point out a negative aspect of a show. They don't, like, cancel each other out. And no one said the show is being racist *on purpose*. Henriksen being a good guy is mentioned; he's an Inspector Javert
*** One random blog misinterpreting the show and its fans should not count as 'some fans.'
She has statistics right there, you know. Hard not to see it. Them being villains doesn't make it okay.
Oh dear, she has statistics. Grossly skewed statistics that sometimes add totally non sexist insults to the total, get somehow offended by there being a pretty equal number of female and male villains (And up in arms when more female insults are used for said female villains, but no issues on the others, no sir)
And no, it IS ignoring positive aspects. Whining how 'the black guys die' kind of ignores the cases where the black people live and how the white guys die far more
I realize discussing this with fleb, king of the 'I'm offended by everything' group is futile, but hopefully someone else isn't as short sighted. Can we say 'selective' again? I knew you could.
*** Drow have dark skin because the main elven god marked them for thier traitorous and evil acts. Originally they had lighter skin like other elves. Yes, really.
*** Oh, not again. As far as the setting
from which most of Drow sources came is concerned, search "Ssri'tel'quessir" at Dark-Skinned Blond
page. There's also pair of relevant links.
: This looks
like a factual correction, so I'm moving it here, but I looked at the thing it's referencing on Dark-Skinned Blond
** Nope. Ssri'tel'quessir (aka Ilythiiri) were darkbefore curse (Descent). Lolth backstabbed her pantheon 20000 years earlier. Still, they didn't
started Crown Wars
, but were consistently... "unconventonal
", until this alienated even allies and annoyed the rest of elven gods too much. In both old and new versions, curse affected all dark elves alike, guilty or not, anywhere
, and it can
be reversed for individual
, but apparently no one cared
to fix what they overdid. So Yeah
...and I have no idea what that means. What did the curse do if it didn't change their skin color?
- arromdee: I don't know either but "were dark before curse" and "The ritual does not change the drows appearance" seen pretty clear in meaning to me.
* While nobody could fault the Tom and Jerry
license holders for trying to get rid of Mammy Two-Shoes, a racial archetype that just comes across as offensive by today's standards, why did they swap her out for an Irish woman? Because it's totally okay to rip on the Irish
** Uh...when do they "rip on" Mammy Two-Shoes? She's just there as an authority figure, further befuddling Tom. Also, your information is stale. Turner has subsequently swapped her out again, this time for a modern black woman, giving her lines in a straight modern reading (with attendant modern recording quality, resulting in an odd sort of audio-temporal version of Conspicuously Light Patch
). This is of course completely period-inappropriate, and, further, a real-life Revealing Cover-Up
Cut down the bit about the Irish. Where *did* they rip on Irish Two Shoes? Was she Stereotype-Irish or something?
** Meanwhile in the Avatar: The Last Airbender
cartoon, we have the episode tales of Ba Sing Se. The last arc of the episode has Momo, a lemur, being captured by animal control and is put in a cage with a few catlike animals. No problem until the animal control guy tries to sell the cats to a restaurant. Presumably as food. Though, given the East Asian references on the show, that may be a subtle reference to some parts of East Asia where the consuption of cats isn't considered anything weird
This one's iffy. It does seem like simple different-people-eat-different-animals stuff plus rage-against-the-butcher animal adventures. At best there might be something there when they're combined like that.
*** Possibly because that's the kind of thing that would be hard on parents that don't pay attention. If your kid says he likes "The Black One", but you don't know whether he means the Black Ranger, or the African-American Ranger, you may be looking at a birthday party crisis somewhere down the line.
*** But what about all those seasons with a black Red Ranger? Or Green Ranger or Blue Ranger?
*** In a perfect world, there would be a white Black Ranger and a black White Ranger in the same show, they would be best friends with an epic bromance
. They would introduce themselves as such ("Hi, I'm Whitey Whiteguy, the Black Ranger!" "And I'm Blacko Blackguy, and I'm the White Ranger!") and everyone would be really weird and awkward about it except the two of them, and they'd think it was funny as shit.
: This part's pure self-defeating natter
, but the last one's at least funny.
>...and I have no idea what that means. What did the curse do if it didn't change their skin color? T Beholder
: Good point. I'll clarify it.
- Heatherly: I removed this example:
This troper is a little embarrased to be bringing this up, but he's seen episodes of Handy Manny because his 5 and 4 year old siblings watch it. The only character in the show that isn't at least vaguely Mexican and clearly can't speak the language is also the most incompetent and frequently hurts himself by refusing the aid of the Mexican titular character.
Because it's inaccurate. I have a six-year-old and I watch "Handy Manny" with her every morning before school. There are lots of characters who are not "vaguely Mexican" who are perfectly competent. The most frequently seen one is Kelly, the blonde-haired, blue-eyed Wrench Wench
who owns the hardware store.
What is unfortunate about it? At worst it's just a Family-Unfriendly Aesop
. Drugs causing superpowers don't fall into Unfortunate Implications
, nor does I Love Nuclear Power
. Removed until someone can provide an actual justification.
: Some cuts.
- Corpse Bride. But as the linked page says, it's somehow a cute, sweet idea in the movie.
Not that kind of implication.
- Johnny Test has twin teen-scientist sisters Susan and Mary pursuing their mutual love interest Gil throughout the series: whenever they get a chance to actually have him, such as via mind control or a robot double, they always share him as a trio rather than fighting over who gets to be with him as a couple. This makes sense from a narrative standpoint as a kids' cartoon, as it keeps the two of them working together, but it has some interesting implications for older viewers.
- How is that an unfortunate implication? Twincest threesome, what's not to like?
Not that kind of implication.
- Moral Orel, although bad enough as it is, has some of this. Usually once an episode Orel's father would say "in my study" Orel would gulp. In would then cut to Orel pulling up his pants, and Orel's father giving him a lecture, then standing up, his fathers pants would fall then. Canon says that his father is hitting him with his belt, but many MANY people though his father was molesting him. This is even Lampshaded in the episode where Orel shows the town his claymation film, one town person who sees this depicted in the movie says "Is his father molesting him?"
Not that kind of implication.
Um... isn't considering Japan's imperialist past what gives the show its propaganda impression in the first place? Since it's completely reversing who was the aggressive power.
- Resident Evil 5: and another major protagonist in the game is a full-blooded African soldier native to the area.
Is he playable like Chris and Sheva?
Dark Insanity 13
: About this Kingdom Hearts
example, as far as I know, the number isn't based on rank, merely when they joined the order. Else, Xigbar and Xaldin (II and III respectively) would have had more of a role in setting things in motion, as opposed to Saix, who was Xemnas' right hand man and number VII. I won't cut it, but if anyone agrees with me, feel free.
: Vexen did try to pull his number on Marluxia ("I'm number IV and you're only XI")- everyone else basically laughed at him, though, so your point stands. As for the only woman being an asshole- dude, has whoever wrote that looked at the rest
of them? (Roxas aside. Jury's still out on Demyx.)
Interestingly, according to the KH Wiki, Nomura tried to avoid
this kind of Unfortunate Implications. Marluxia was going to be female (explains a lot doesn't it?) but Nomura and co. decided it'd be a bad idea to have the only two girls be the rebels. I personally like him better as a badass girly-man anyway. XD
Funny how we don't have to change that line for Xion anyway.
: Admittedly, this might fit, but I'm not quite sure if the Nostalgia Critic
necessarily interpreted it as racist, since regional jokes are made all the time. Nonetheless, it can be put back if it does fit: (05/26/09)
- Pokémon: The First Movie has Ash, in response to Brock saying he didn't know Vikings still existed, remarking that "they mostly live in Minnesota." He was making a reference to the Minnesota Vikings, but some folks, The Nostalgia Critic among them, have mistaken it for a racial joke against Minnesotans.
- Peteman: I know what that Drow Reincarnation Epic Destiny the OP is talking about. I think it might have been in a dragon magazine.
Hey, kids, time for another mass cut. I think the essence of this trope is things that look bigoted (or at least bad) but probably weren't intended to be. Many of the general examples here seem to me to be less Unfortunate Implications
and more out-and-out racism.
I removed these examples of plain old bigotry
And also, keep in mind that seeing UI everywhere has its own implications, because perhaps one only sees what one expects, revealing more about the offended than the "offender".
: What's the point of this paragraph? It reads kinda like a Take That!
—someone who "sees it everywhere" is a giant strawman.
: I added it. I want to have something
in the writeup that makes people think twice before they add any random thing that offends them. There are a lot of examples where you have to squint the right way to see the offensiveness and they take a lot of time and energy to discuss here and then pull out.
: Clipped out this entry:
- On TV 1, a network aimed at African-Americans, commercials for fried chicken are often rotated.
That's like saying the same would be true during NBA games. If they showed different commercials on TV 1
or didn't have the same saturation on every other network the companies advertize on, you'd have a point. This? It's PC handwringing.
Mysticpenguin: I was thinking about Andrew Lloyd Weber's "Phantom of the Opera" for some reason earlier today. I remember hearing back when I was a Phandom geek that Weber wrote it for Sarah Brightman, who played the lead female role and who was married to ALW at the time. Writing a role for your wife where she's basically a limp body with a good voice and a psycho Stalker With A Crush makes me go "yeah, I dunno...", but I think it might be a bit of a stretch to file it here. Thoughts?
Removed it since it's just plain not what this trope is about.
- The UK Independence Party's logo is a pound sign with their name across it — representing their opposition to the EU with our currency, which some Europhiles might want to get rid of. Unfortunately, there's recently been a scandal about MPs making excessive or downright fraudulent claims on expenses... -Just plain Unfunny Anyerusim Moment or Hillarious In Hindsight depending on your perspective.
- Wikipedia used to have an article at "List of All Blacks", since moved, but retained as a redirect. *
- Also from the same source: "List of All Black tests". — Someone's being oversenstive here or misinterpriting deliberatly.
A recent Trix Yogurt commercial had the mascot rabbit protest that "dinosaurs aren't real." While the probable intent was to protest that dinosaurs are not currently extant, it comes across as denouncing evolutionary biology.
- And even if we cut them that slack, they're STILL wrong, as it's widely accepted (except among a select group of crazed ornithologists) that birds are, in phylogenetic terms, dinosaurs. - Something that could be remotly interpitted as an accidental agenda isn't this trope.
- Anything you do to the opposing side — absolutely anything, including torture, murder, and conquest — is okay as long as you're the main character doing it to the opposing side. Don't worry, no one will call you out for this. Except your childhood bully, but he was a jerk to you anyway.
- The Mind Rape of Sloan done by Eragon. What were his major crimes? Trying to keep his daughter alive and not giving the Designated Hero some meat in exchange for a rock. To be fair it was a "very" pretty rock.
- Well, he did also murder someone while giving his daughter to the bloodthirsty monsters just so she wouldn't marry the brother of the farmboy that he doesn't like. - Just complaining about Eragon. Stay in the respective tropes.
- Non-racist example in The Urbs: Sims in the City. There are also some ridiculous racist moments, but that's not as funny as the issue of what clothing you have to wear. If you are dressed inappropriately in a certain area, you will be unable to talk to people, and you have to change your entire image from the ground up to earn respect and friendship. Given the market for this Sims game in particular was towards a younger audience, all is seems to be teaching them is "if you ever want to be socially accepted, lose all your identity and change everything about yourself so people will like you." Oh...kay then. -It's just Family-Unfriendly Aesop.
- This troper happened to be watching Ni Hao, Kai-Lan, and noticed that the normal children's lessons take on surprisingly communist overtones when delivered by a young Chinese girl. For example, a lesson on teamwork essentially teaches "You must happily do your arbitrarily assigned job, or else society will fall apart." - That's your sterotyping not theirs barring the Chinese Flag in the background.
- This troper once spotted a genuine 'motivational' poster in a government establishment that bore the word 'diversity' with a picture of two children's clasped hands; one black, one white. Er...
Deleted line 550: - Government's accidental symbolism is not this trope.
- This Russian state TV signoff. At first, it looks like your standard patriotic sign-off piece. But watch closely at the shot at 0:28 to 0:30 — a car is breaking the road rules — not exactly something you want to advertise on a flagship station... - Again, making themself look bad is not this trope.
: "making themself look bad" — seems to be closer to the Bucket Of Ears
or Accidental Innuendo
or something like this.
"That's your sterotyping not theirs barring the " — wait, isn't it what "Unfortunate Implications
" are — stuff that looks Values Dissonance
-y but not explicitly intended (like Bucket Of Ears
, unlike Author Tract
)? Though the scene as described seems to be usual stereotyping, but not an "implication".
And let's not forget that the one woman who has a job is Bella's rarely-seen mother, who is a schoolteacher.
Because Bella does
work at the Newton's store, which is a perfectly legit job for a high schooler, and none of the vampires work except for Carlisle, but that's because of his magical "compassion" rather than money. Alice gets most of their money from the stock market, making her the main breadwinner, Rosalie is an expert mechanic/car collector, Esme is an architect in her spare time, and they all went to college (multiple times) and got medical degrees. It's just the heroine who's bland, useless, and completely dependant on her man, to the point where becoming an all-powerful Mary Sue vampire is actually an improvement to her character.
: Vezirov's at it again. For the first two I pulled, please see the Valkyria Chronicles
discussion page so I don't have to rehash it again.
- Valkyria Chronicles: The Darcsens, for all intents and purposes, are Jews (this game is a very thinly veiled pastiche of WWII), but they look Japanese. AKA the people who were helping the Nazis. There's also a conspicuous lack of a Japanese Expy group, leading to the impression that the story literally replaces the Jews with the Japanese, and writes them as invaluable help for the heroes.
- To say nothing of lead female Alicia's losing her invincibility when Welkin proposes to her and kisses her.
- Both of these two are peanuts to the true unfortunate implication of the series, that if you convert all the races back to their WWII equivalent, you realize that the Valkyria are the Aryan race. Later in the game, the Valkyrian characters become invincible demi-gods, basically proving Hitler's master race idea right! OH, and they're all female.
For this last one...seriously? Hitler was right?
How in god's name is a race of female warriors who kill themselves to activate their powers even remotely close to Aryan or endorsing anything the Nazis promoted? It's like you already made the conclusion and had to slap on a theory to force it to fit.
Vezirov: I'm not here to argue, I'd just like to point out that I didn't add anything to this entry beyond the implication of Alicia's loss of power with the consummation of her romance plot; I wasn't responsible for the Darcsen = Japanese Jews parallel (which you can argue all you want, but I was not
the only person who noticed that— it's a WWII pastiche and the Darcsens are an oppressed, insular culture forced into labor camps and abused by the Axis/German pastiche, and ... well, just look at Nadine.) I added it back in, since the only reason you deleted it was because you thought I was the one who posted it. All you do is police the fandoms you like and delete anything that you don't agree with solely based on whether you personally believe that other people's thoughts and opinions are valid, no matter how many people agree or don't agree with their interpretations. I've seen your tracks in other pages I visit, and seen entries I agree with get deleted by your "only my opinion matters and I'm always right" view of basically everything on TV Tropes
In this case, the Valkyra-Master Race parallel is a fairly easy one to make, if you remove the fantasy elements
(I don't think France/Belgium/any other country that Gallia is roughly based on actually has glowing blue magic minerals in its soil, either). The Valkyria as a whole are perceived as noble, powerful conquerers from whom the rest of Europa descends (except the Darcsens), and with successive generations have lost the powers that should give them (until Cordelia blows the secret, anyway), and in the game, Maximillian strives for that at all costs (the artificial Valkyria armor). The Aryan/Master Race theory is based on the idea that the Nordic (Vikings, the culture that gives us valkyries
) peoples are genetically superior due to the harsh environment they lived in, and so those who exemplefied Nordic traits were likewise superior. This means that this conquering race is perceived as a noble, powerful people that came to Europe hundreds of years ago, and generations later, their descendents were seen as having drifted away from that ideal, and strove to get it back. Both groups were seen in later history as not living up to the ideals of those who revered them later (the Valkyria are obviously not the kind, wise benefactors people think they are in the beginning, and the Nordic genotype is obviously not a one-way ticket to good looks and superior physical performance).
Do I necessarily agree with the person who wrote this? No. I think it's a good theory, and an interesting interpretation, and I do understand the point, but I can't claim this idea was mine or that the game gave me this impression when I played it.
In any case, I'm not going to argue this point any further. I will never be able to stop you from being your own one-woman Thought Police brigade; apparently I don't have nearly as much free time as you do. I expect that the next time I read up on Unfortunate Implications
, this entry (and probably this post in the discussion page) will be deleted anyway.
: Thought police? Riiiight. But I apologize for being overly critical and blaming you for something you didn't do or say. That was way too hostile. But regarding the topic at hand, if you have to strip everything contextual from the game away from the Valkyria to make them parallel to the Aryan race, that's not Unfortunate Implications
. That's just really stretching it.
For what it's worth, I don't see the Japanese-to-Jew conversion, but you do make a reasonable argument, so I'll just let it go and let the rest of the wiki handle it. I also added a link back to this page from the main Valkyria Chronicles
Hugh Man: Reinserted the sections on Storm & Black Panther's marriage and the second Pirates of the Caribbean
movie, since they were straight, blatant examples deleted for no real reason. The former was deleted by Cortez, who's made similar edits to the Token Shipping
page for some time. Let's hope the examples stick this time.
: Moving this here for discussion (along with current entry for context):
- The parallels between the vampire rights movement in True Blood and the real life gay rights movement are unnerving. Sure, vampires, like homosexuals, have no control over what they are, but the two shouldn't even be compared. Not to mention the fact that the humans are justified in their prejudice, because vampires are killers. Even Bill.
- I believe that is intentional. Alan Ball, the openly gay writer of the show (he also wrote Six Feet Under, BTW), pretty much admit the whole vampire metaphor is about gay. And if you really think about it, the closed minded side of society do see gay people as very bad people and often use that to jstify their hate and even violence.
I haven't seen the series and so may be completely wrong, but it seems to me that the original point being made is that whilst the vampires / homosexuality parallel-metaphor is intentional, the very act of comparing homosexuality to a race of murderers (which, whilst I haven't seen the show, what I hear about it suggests that many of the vampires on the series are) is itself the Unfortunate Implication; it opens up a suggestion that "homosexuals are murderers / evil" even though that's not what the creator had in mind. I may, of course, be wrong.
- Isn't "not what the creator had in mind" the entire point of this article?
:This looks like classic Fantastic Aesop
. Use a fantasy situation (prejudice against vampires) as a metaphor for a real-life situation (prejudice against gays) even though the details of the fantasy situation (vampires really are
dangerous killers) make the metaphor break down.
Anonymous: Is it just me, or does it seem like a lot of this is ... "stretching", to say the least? *
Not to mention that a good portion of them are still blatantly wrong and/or not actual unfortunate implications i.e. imply sexist, racist, or otherwise bigotted attitudes not intended by the creator. *
I'm really thinking that a mass
cut is in order, and just hope that whoever comes by to restore their pet example only re-adds it instead of reverting everything. *
On another note, I believe that it actually is possible to Subvert Unfortunate Implications but it's the sort of balancing act that ensures that at least one person will still find it bigotted, not to mention that allowing it will lead to a number of "Justified" Edits along the lines of "It's not really racist, <my favorite Creator> is just subverting racism!" so I don't even know why I mentioned it.
Some New Guy
: The Resident Evil
5 entry is little more then whining and overthinking something that wasn't meant as racist at all
. Requesting removal.
I'm putting the Firefly example about how Reavers=Native Americans back in because while its unintentional its still a strong enough paralell that its widely seen and I believe Joss admitted it was plausible but it wasn't a connection he made until it was pointed out afterward.
Robert Downey jr played it for laughs but didn't they also pretty much bitch slap and correct him constantly during the movie for doing that? Doesn't that mean he didn't actually play it for laughs? Does that have any effect on the moral high horse judgement passed in the caption? Seems he was an example of "full retard" he was denouncing in the movie? I realize you may have to actually watch the movie to understand this all, sorry.
SNES Master KI: Okay, the "as long as people saw it" thing is being taken too far with the Resident Evil 5 examples. My removal of implications that simply weren't there is being reversed because someone somewhere saw an early trailer without knowing anything about the series history, and because someone didn't know Spanish people were white. The heroes of the game are a white man and a black woman, they are both there for all gameplay, completely equal roles, it simply is not a Mightey Whitey scenario, in addition to the white protagonist having done similar missions in the past and therefore not in any way surpassing another race at something they had been doing for years.
Some New Guy
: Good. God. The Dragon Age
example is just plain ridiculous. Comparing Mages to homosexuals
? I can somewhat understand why some would compare Tranquil to autism, but this is just baseless accusations.
: Sweet adajustment, Mercy
The Tambourine Man: Removing Redemption Equals Death
from the subtrope list. Why was it on there, anyway?
: Me no likey the selected image. Was the bad implication that Lebron's a WW1
era German? How's his pose racist, black guys sag their shoulders like that all the time? Or is it his expression, which ain't remarkable. I hate this bullshit sensitivity. It comes from stupid and crazy white people who laud any culture but their own while being self-effacing b/c they're ashamed their ancestors were the first peoples powerful enough to conquer all others in the world.