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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Working Title: Unbuilt Trope: From YKTTW

Fast Eddie: Huh. No reference here or in Replacement Goldfish to Pinocchio, from 1883.

C Trombley: Who was Pinnochio replacing?

Fast Eddie: A child in Geppetto's life, of which there were none. Too tenuous a 'replacement', I'd agree.

J Chance: I'm not too sure about the Cyberpunk bit here...I was under the impression that MegaCorps, vast inequality, and a general film-noirish tone were still considered standard.

Tzintzuntzan: Deleted the part about Mendele the bookseller's real name being Lamed Shapiro because it wasn't — Lamed Shapiro is a different writer. (Mendele's real name was Sholem Yankev Abromovich.)

arromdee: Deleted:

• The Coneheads portrays illegal aliens in a very positive light and makes many good arguments in favor of immigration and accepting other people's ways of life. This was way before immigration became a major issue.

That's like saying that Superman presents illegal aliens in a very positive light. The fact that they are technically illegal is not mentioned in any sketches I remember (and if it was it would have just been a one line joke) and pretty much has no bearing whatsoever on it. It's about immigration, not about illegal immigration. It's also not a Trope Maker.

(Interjection by Slatz Grobnik - that's the original sketches. The movie, however, is very much about illegal immigration...not to mention that Superman is interpreted as a commentary on the immigrant (specifically second generation Jewish) experience. But you're right that it's not an example of the trope. The movie came out before the recent kerfuffle over immigration, but by no means "before it became a major issue," nor is its message at all different than other immigrant-positive ones).

• A work like Neuromancer would today be seen as a Deconstruction of the idea that the Internet brings the free flow of information.

While the Cyberpunk section is questionable anyway, this one is particularly so. The Internet in its modern form didn't exist when it was written. And there's a big difference between having the Internet not be liberating because it benefits the people in power, and having the Internet not be liberating because it doesn't exist (even if there are a couple of references to computers being connected).

Ettina: I get the same feeling from reading old psych articles. Totally different perspective on the same condition, even if it's only 50 years ago.

Paireon: OK, just curious here, but when was Tenchi ever portrayed as a jerk? OK, so he was a lot more pro-active than most harem guys in the OVA's, but still a really nice guy as far as I remember... The manga, maybe?

Nobody: How's this different from Cyclic Trope?

• Cyclic Trope has to bounce back.

Um, Tenchi wasn't a typical doormat harem guy? really? He reflexively did a shinto funeral clap thing when he thought Ryoko had exploded herself.. He was clearly a doormat from episode 1, and later explained by having a strict-ass grandpa and an irresponsible dad he would probably have to take care of if they weren't wealthy...

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SenatorJ: I have to add my confusion about the Cyberpunk section. Snow Crash was from the 90s, and the genre has been around far longer than months prior to 1992. It would be helpful if anyone can clarify that bit.

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