Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Tanto: These Naruto examples have got me what category would you place the ANBU Black Ops? They're supposed to be the best of the best, but they spend a lot of time getting outmanuevered and killed en masse to show how smart and powerful New Character X is. It seems like a combination of this, Red Shirts, and Informed Ability.

Outsyder0486: I would wager that the ANBU would probably be more Red Shirts than anything else. Though I never really thought of the ANBU as the best of the best, considering so many great ninja were FORMER members.

Ununnilium: Redshirt Army?

Thunder Phoenix: To be fair on the Defiant example, the ship had been fighting the Borg across most of Sector 001 when we first saw it.

Dan: On Wolverine, the entry has it backwards: Getting the crap beaten out of him, then getting up, jumping back in, and getting the crap kicked out of him again is what initially popularized the character. IIRC there was an interview where Chris Claremont explains this, but damned if I can remember the source.

Hi. Maybe The Thing (from the Four Fantastics) qualifie, too ? He's often beaten for this reason.

And don't forgot Galactus. Wen you see him, you know it's for be beaten badly...

Geese: Hm, thatother1dude, what was the problem with the No Country For Old Men entry?

Air Of Myster: Was the person who wrote the X-Men quote at the top a fan of Simon Furman?

Rebochan: I took out the Makoto example from the Sailor Moon entry - this only happened once, Haruka was not the villain, and the point of the fight wasn't even to establish Haruka as a true badass but just a continuation on that episode's theme about comparing the two characters personalities and fighting styles. Makoto lost but still hit Haruka hard enough to leave a bleeding injury, leaving Haruka to admit to Michiru that Makoto was incredibly strong.

Bob-b-q: Could we perhaps get the current picture in better quality?

HerbieHero: Random question, but does anyone know what comic the X-Men page quote cames from? Particularly, who wrote it? Because that entire sentence, particularly the "...what chance do we have?" part, smacks of Simon Furman.
Bob: Cut because of inaccuracy. Issue #2 shows that Superman wasn't knocked out.

  • The JLA/Avengers Crossover book does this at the end of #1, were Thor clocks Superman with his strongest blow, knocking him out. Fans were quick to point out that while this was awesome, it was outside of Thor's character, having never met Superman before and not knowing that Supes could survive such an attack. Writer Kurt Busiek commented on how it wasn't intended to make sense, just to provide some fanservice.

Elihu: At no point is Huey ever established as the "resident badass" figure. Yeah, he's prone to violence but he's more Young, Black and Angry then a badass figure. Beating him up doesn't give That's Just How Tough the Bad Guy Is vibes because the series never pretends that he's anything other than a kid (albeit, a confident, educated, martial-arts-disciplined one).

  • On The Boondocks, Huey often has to face often inexplicably fight-capable people physically. However, as of the end of season two, he's never finished a fight and won (he lost to Bushido Brown, Luna, and Uncle Ruckus).
    • However, he, Riley, and Granddad Defeated Stinkmeaner as he was possessing Tom. Huey, however, technically deals the final blow (tricking him and Ruckus into agreeing on something) once he has the solution hinted to him by a Jedi Ghost-like Ghostfacekilla.
    • And to be totally fair, we never see Huey lose to Uncle Ruckus. The fight scene is skipped and he is uninjured inside the movie theaters' manager booth. And at the end, it is implied (if not said outright) that Huey wins his rematch with Uncle Ruckus. This is also flatly untrue: Huey beat up plenty of security guards and ushers at the movie theater.

Discar: I'm not sure I've misunderstood the trope, or if it's people putting up the examples who are getting it wrong, but I thought that the entire point of this was when a supposedly Bad Ass character is repeatedly curbstomped by various monsters of the week. However, the page is full of examples where a pretty strong character gets their ass handed to them just once. The first one that comes to mind is for Mahou Sensei Negima!: Someone put that the Governer-General of Ostia beating up Negi was an example of the Worf Effect, despite the fact that Negi remains just as Bad Ass as before, and the scene successfully establishes the new bad guy as a credible threat. Am I missing something?

Elihu: No, you're absolutely right. People are just overeager in adding examples.
BritBllt: Adding this bit of natter here...

  • To be fair, the Defiant was never supposed to be able to solo a Borg cube; it was intended as the prototype of a dedicated fleet of Borg-busters, and it does survive the fight which is more than can be said for many of the larger ships.

It hurts the flow of the main page, it's a Justifying Edit, and I've never heard a source for the idea that the Defiant was supposed to fight as a fleet (if it's from Paramount, I suspect it's a Word of God or Expanded Universe thing). But that idea has been around for awhile now, so it's worth noting on this page.

TyVulpine: Worf isn't the strongest member on the Enterprise, Data is. (As shown in a first season episode) So shouldn't this be called "The Data Effect"?

Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: No. Data doesn't fight as often — he was programmed with Federation ideals, and so he's a peace-loving android most of the time. But when he does fight, he wins as often as not — heck, at least one of his demonstrations of strength was a Worf Effect against Worf. Even when he does get Worf-like setbacks (I'm thinking about his trying to remove that colony on the H-class planet), he's still as likely to get the final victory as anyone else.
Richard AK: Removed this example:
* The US Army in Vietnam.
Because it's not really an example of the trope. The US Army in Vietnam pretty much won almost all the battles of any size it fought. America ultimately lost the war because American political leaders were unable to capitalize on military success to produce political success.