Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Rename Takahashi Couple launched as Takahashi Couple: From YKTTW

Takahashi Couple: More specific? launched as Takahashi Couple: From YKTTW

Working Title: Takahashi Couple: From YKTTW

Sackett: I would argue that a Takahashi Couple is more restrictive then this, in that the reason they never admit their feelings is because they are a specific Love Interest couple: The Jerk with a Heart of Gold paired with a Tsundere.

CapnAndy: Killed an entry on the Clark/Lois/Superman love triangle, since that's Loves My Alter Ego and nothing at all to do with this trope.

Sackett: Okay, we keep going round and round here about changing this. So I went ahead and reworked it into what I think is a more specific and thus more useful use of the term: Takahashi Couple. I'm going to move the examples that no longer fit over to Will They or Won't They?, but I'll also post them here, just in case somebody would like to create a new trope: Offical Couple Failure? or Screwball Comedey? Of which Takahashi Couple would be a subtrope. I'll also, go search out the wiki links to make sure they still match up with the reworked definition.

Also, some of the examples migth fit after all, I'm leaving the ones I know nothing about, but some I think I know a little, but I'm wrong go ahead and add them back.

  • The uber-example in Western live TV would be Tony and Angela from Who's the Boss?. By the time they actually got together in the final season, it felt more like a Hail Mary to save the show than any sort of romantic payoff. (When they confessed their relationship to the rest of the cast, their reaction was basically "So what's the actual news?")
  • Aeryn Sun and John Crichton on Far Scape. They were falling into confined spaces together, or into each other's arms, whenever Moya shuddered in the first episode. And while they certainly came close several times, and even got together once, it never actually worked out until the end of the series, and the miniseries.

Gregory Hayes: Man, I have been looking for friggin' ever to find a page I can use that Evil Overlord List entry on. Now if I can only get it formatted correctly...

Larry D: According to this essay, holding hands is a big deal in the Japanese culture.

"In the Japanese culture, and even more so in a time like sengoku jidai, holding hands is something reserved exclusively for romantic couples. By taking InuYasha’s hand, Kagome is asserting that she has romantic feelings for him. By returning it, he is letting her know that his feelings are the same."

This, of course, makes Ramma and Akane's finally holding hands a big, if subtle, deal.

I'd like to suggest this trope be renamed Mills And Boon Couple, since their novels always feature a couple like this, and Mills and Boon is a less obscuring tittle.

  • Sackett: Who??? While I wouldn't mind a spoon friendly redirect, Mills and Boon is not it. Vitriolic Couple?

Known Unknown: I'm not really sure that Danny Phantom example should be here; Danny is not the Jerk with a Heart of Gold and Sam is only ever occasionally a Tsundere
  • Sackett: I think Danny can pass as a Jerk with a Heart of Gold, but Sam isn't usually a Tsundere in my view. I don't mind their removal.

Ouroboros: Cut this.
Because they quite simply do not behave how this troper thinks they're behaving. They don't bicker, all they do is repress their obvious UST for reasons professional and personally, it is never expressed through bickering, insults, fighting or a lack of empathy, they don't make a habit of hurting one another in any way and are almost always respectful to one another, with a little teasing from Roy from time to time.

Freezer: Would the responsible party care to explain what the point of the redirect to "Tsunderes In Love" was?
  • Sackett: I would like to know too. This is more of a subtrope of Tsunderes In Love anyways- and a Tsundere's attitude towards love is covered pretty well on the main Tsundere page.
  • Cliché: Here you go.
    • Sackett: Geez... never even saw that thing. Considering the amount of debate there has been over Takahashi Couple I'd think there would have been more publicity. Also, the conversation seems to have missed completely the fact that a Tsundere and a Jerk with a Heart of Gold are not the same thing... Oh well, if the issue is a need for a English friendly redirect, Tsundere isn't that good of an idea anyways. Maybe I'll add Vitriolic Couple as a redirect, seems to fit well with Vitriolic Best Buds

Sackett: I notice Sasuke and Kaname from Full Metal Panic! keep getting removed. I would say that Sasuke is a Jerk. Now he may not intentionally mean to be jerk, but when you blow up lockers because someone put a note in it- I think you have reached jerk status- no matter how golden (or understandable) your intentions are.
Freezer: I completely fail to understand the need for a trope renaming. Especially to Tsunderes In Love. I think "Takahashi Couple", I think Ranma and Akane - the trope's archtypes. I think "Tsunderes In Love" I think "Naru Narusegawa". If it's a matter of confusion, would anyone who knows what a Tsundere is not know who Rumiko Takahashi is and what type couple we're talking about?

I've read the Discussion page on the topic, and I'm seeing very little "This is why this needs renaming," and lots of "I like this name better". Where is the confusion? Where is the need?

Dragon Quest Z: No Just No. The crowner was to rename. You don't get to unilaterally decide to go against that.

Bufuman: What, was there a vote on this issue? Where was that? Kindly link me to it so I can vote against the name change. I'm in agreement with Freezer here. This trope is fine as it is.
  • Freezer: The forum topic is here. There's a marked lack of consensus as to what the new name should be or even why there should be a new name (barring the rather lame and annoyingly persistent "What's with all the Japanese Trope Names for stuff that isn't anime only?" crap). The lack of protest was taken as consensus and green light.

Dragon Quest Z: You liar. There was plenty of consensus, and the crowner put the new name in the clear lead. If you keep pretending there wasn't an agreement to rename when there was, I'll be forced to report you.
  • Freezer: Link to this "consensus" and I'll shut up. I looked for the crowner. It ain't there.
    • Freezer: BTW, you do realize it would've been helpful to put up some sort of notice that a vote was going on before deciding things were settled, yes? You realize that the vast majority of Tropers don't read the forums and won't unless there's something of specific interest, right?
      • Not to mention, for this being so important, there's a distinct lack of renames on the Troper Tales, Laconic Wiki, and Quotes pages.
  • Bull. There is a crowner on the thread. You just didn't look hard enough. And we just started on the renames today, so calling on us for not correcting things we didn't have time for, and your own actions delayed, is not an argument.

Freezer: If you're going to keep changing the page, change the damn page. Just changing the title and a couple of lines at the bottom is just lazy. What's the point of a name change if you're going to leave the page loaded up with the old trope name? Put in the effort or leave it alone.

Dragon Quest Z: We did change more. You just kept muddling it up by reverting the old descriptions as well. You made it that way, so don't blame us for screwing up what you sabotaged.

Sackett: Look I don't mind a redirect, but I really don't get the point of rewriting the page when it's a pretty strong trope as this is exactly what a Takahashi Couple is.
  • Freezer: Apparently, the issue is that Tsunderes In Love is more all inclusive, because not everyone knows who Rumiko Takahashi is (But everyone does know what a Tsundere is). Because that's what this wiki needs: more vaguely worded trope names.

Dragon Quest Z: That was not the reason we chose to rename the page. Lying about our motives will not prove the rename is wrong.
  • Freezer: I'm not lying, I'm interpretting. Given, as Sackett has argued (to deaf ears, apparently), Takahashi's standard pairings are the trope templates. What sense does it make to move the trope name and description away from that. Not to mention that the original rename complaint was that Takahashi Couple was too anime-centric for this trope. How. The. Hell. Does changing it to Tsunderes In Love address that. I have yet to see that addressed.

Another thing I have yet to see addressed is why the vast majority of us heard nothing about the rename thread or the crowning poll until after the deed was done. BTW, "9 to 6 in favor" hardly constitutes "a consensus" when we have registered users in the hundreds.

Isulfir: On another note, does anyone happen to know from which anime the image comes?

Catch The Sun: I think that's Zero no Tsukaima. Probably needs a Pot Hole. Hold on.