Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

The Defenestrator: OK, the spoiler space in the Eva example is kinda odd....

Removed the entry entirely (and edited the preceding comment), as it's not a clear example. Another reading of the scene is that Misato knows what's going on and is trying to motivate Shinji.
Citizen: Removed the last bit from the Negima examples for various reasons. Her past is still too murky, and with the possibility of Time Travel, all bets are off. There's also mental age...

goodyfun: Although it isn't too big of a problem on this wiki, I've noticed that this page in particular has a very, very large amount of examples being simply fan speculation. Keep it down as much as possible. Most people would not want to be associated with this sort of thing, even if they had no idea what TV Tropes is.

Sweet sassy molasses, we need this picture. NIS is amazing.

goodyfun: Cutting down (my own) conversation for room. Just 'cause nobody likes a teal deer.

lebrel: I'm not entirely following your reasoning. Roman myths don't qualify as shotacon, the way that is usually defined, and it's not required that shotacon actually be explicitly sexual (moe cuteness is sufficient). Also, I've got to say, male fans picked up shotacon and made it theirs within a couple of years of the BL fans, at most. If you want something old enough to be non-controversial, how about a (tame) shudō ukiyo-e print? That would at least have some (tangental) cultural connection.

goodyfun: I was thinking of doing that, but it is hard to find a good picture for a page. I'll be right back.

lebrel: Maybe this one? The smaller figure is provably a boy, even though he's in a woman's kimono, because he has a shaved crown (meaning he's a wakashu). [Note to self: macrons don't work. Bah.]

goodyfun: Comment edit: Better pic uploaded by lebrel.

I also added my manga history essay knoledge to the article. That's most of what I know about this trope (looking at the article, it seems like I'm the only one).

lebrel: Did a little rewriting, replaced the image with something less suggestive. I think it's important to point out that (straight) men have been numerous and influential as both readers and creators since very near the beginning; shotacon is currently divided pretty much down the middle into "for men" and "for women", and men's shotacon has lost all connection to Boys Love. It's now a nearly mainstream porn category for men.

goodyfun: Teal deer.

lebrel: "Secondly, there is no such thing as a straight man who likes boys." Well, that's a whole 'nother can of worms, but the official psychological standard is that straight/gay/bisexual are defined solely by attraction to adults. A man who likes adult women, adult men, and underage boys is bisexual; a man who likes adult women and underage boys but not adult men is straight; a man who likes underage boys but not any kind of adults is none of the above. (Shuffle genders as applicable.) And in any case I don't really think you can decide someone's orientation based on 2-D porn; many male shota enthusiasts/authors insists that shota are not boys; they're something else, neither male nor female, that has no real-world equivalent. Shota for men has big overlaps with futanari, and the undefined-gender appeal is similar.

goodyfun: (This is getting off topic from the article now, I think, so I might delete this later, but I feel like responding.) I'm sorry. I forgot about what you said there. I'm asexual, so I have to learn about sex topics slowly.

Passer-by: Actually, there's still a shitload of gay shota for some reason.

On to other things that won't get me arrested...

What to do with the cut examples? I know we're in a legal gray area. Maybe we can repackage it to "obvious age difference", which should also cover "old woman/MILF with younger guy and vice versa"? That'll be less controversial and less likely for anyone to get arrested.

C Banana: Lolicon got locked and the issue has been brought up on how this affects the Shotacon page. The discussion can be found here.

Well, now that the examples got deleted, I guess I'll do the same thing here that was done in the lolicon page and archive the examples in the discussion page.

    Past Examples - Do Not Add To, Or Attempt To Revert