Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Madrugada: The germ of a trope here, but it desperately needs to go through YKTTW and get more examples and a cleaner, clearer definition. Cut it and start it over again.

Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: I can provide the cleaner, clearer definition now, though not the reassurance that this trope doesn't already exist. Let me give it a spin.

Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Rats. I redefined this, but it looks like The Call Knows Where You Live covers it adequately. I'm not sure whether to cut this or rewrite the other trope. It is possible to be forced into a call but embrace it anyway (that's a listed trope, and I'm mentally thinking of the party in the cartoon Dungeons and Dragons. There's a big difference between Hank and Eric.) And it is possible, though just barely, to refuse the call even when it does know where you live; that's Screw Destiny at high stakes. The Call Knows Where You Live should be a supertrope and allow for different reactions...

Madrugada: That's why I think this needs to be cut and go back to YKTTW for some loving. It's going to take multiple inputs to distill this to make it clear that it simply isn't a subtrope of The Call Knows Where You Live. What I'm seeing is that this isn't about why the hero accepts the call, it's about his attitude toward it. This belongs in a triad on the same level as Jumped at the Call and Refused the Call, since the three basic ways the hero can react to the call is to say "Yay! Oh hell, yes!" (which is Jumped at the Call), "No way. Not gonna. And you can't make me." (which is Refused the Call and often leads to The Call Knows Where You Live) or "Crap. I don't really have a choice do I? Didn't think so. Well, let's get it over with." (which is this one.)

Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Understood, but I see nothing wrong with this trope as it is now. It's The Call Knows Where You Live that needs redefining — that one includes this specific response in the definition, and I don't think it should...

Lale: Cut it! It's the same as Refusal of the Call. You can't refuse the call without becoming resigned to the call — there would be no story!

Madrugada It is not the same as Refusal of the Call. If it was a duplicate, a character could both refuse the Call and be resigned to the Call at the same time. But that can't happen, since one is refusing it and the other is accepting it. This is not refusing the call at all. It's accepting the call, unenthusiastically. As I said above, if you'd bothered to read the previous discussion, this is one of a triad of tropes about how the person receiving the call reacts to it: Enthusiastically agreeing, trying to refuse it, or reluctantly agreeing. Resigned to the Call can follow a Refusal, but they aren't the same.

Lale: Refusal of the Call is only a temporary step on The Hero's Journey. Luke Skywalker refused the call; he eventually resigned himself to it. The process of refusal and resignation makes up the Refusal of the Call step. The Refusal of the Call consists of both the act of refusing and circumstances later forcing The Hero to accept, to paraphrase Joseph Campbell.

Madrugada No, refusing is only one step. What follows the refusal can vary enormously. Some heroes who originally refuse become very enthusiastic about the task, others never embrace it completely: they're doing it because it needs to be done, but they still want it done with so they can go back home. Frodo in Lot R is a classic example of a hero who remains Resigned to the Call all the way to the end. It's a task that he must do, and he does enjoy some parts of the journey, but he is never excited about being the Ring Bearer. Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey addresses what happens to the hero and what the hero does. This is not about What it's about attitude.

BulldozerBegins: I intended this to be a case where the hero has something so ridiculous happen to them before they even had a chance to refuse the call, that it would be utterly illogical for them to do something other than accept it. Instead of the Call getting revenge on them for a refusal, it pre-empts the hero by turning all their loved ones into glorified Red Shirts.

However, the redefinition works as well, with the fact remaining that a Call letting it be known that it knows where the hero lives not always being necessary for a hero to resign himself to the call. The original definition was aimed primarily at Chew Toy Heroes. But the new one is more inclusive, making way for Genre Savvy ones.