launched as Recycled INSPACE
: From YKTTW
This article looks like it is heavily suffering from Flanderization; just because two works of fiction are very similar does not make them recycled. Recycled in space only means the setting
has been changed while the characters and/or plot remains the same.
For this reason; I am pulling the Shaggy and Scooby Doo Get a Clue
entry from this trope. I have never seen the show; and frankly I do not care much for Scooby-Doo, but seeing the show described "Scooby-Doo AS A SECRET AGENT STORY WITH ONLY TWO MEMBERS OF THE ORIGINAL CAST, A MAD SCIENTIST, NO MONSTERS, AND SCOOBY GETTING CYBORG SUPER POWERS FROM NANOTECH SCOOBY SNACKS
" is enough changes to disqualify it as Recycled In Space.
Seconded. At time of writing, an awfully high proportion of the examples refer to *ordinary* sequels, rip-offs, or adaptations. I took out one particularly glaring one, but the massive surgery needed to fix up the whole page is something I feel is beyond me. (Also, I'm not a regular troper or member of the community, so it might be a bit much of me to suddenly delete half the entries.) Someone needs to, though.
I'm going to put a note at the end of the article, since it seems a lot of people don't understand what the trope means.
Please delete if that's not okay. ~Topazlily
Update: make that two glaring examples. "Eragon" may be a rip-off of "The Lord of the Rings", but it clearly has *the same* type of setting!
: Are we certain this entry has enough
: Nope, but we haven't been able to raise enough money by passing the hat to get more.
They're there for a reason. Read the entry.
: Well, it used to say (And yes, the all-caps is necessary.) but it got removed.
- The Flintstones, Looney Tunes, and Scooby-Doo have all had AS KIDS spinoffs. Even if in the original, there's a scene where they met for the first time, they knew each other as kids and have forgotten.
since it's now in Spinoff Babies
: I put it back, as it illustrates a different point, here.
: I took out this:
- Video game example: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic was Neverwinter Nights IN SPACE, somewhat predictably, as both games were developed by BioWare. Its sequel, developed by Obsidian Entertainment, was apparently going to be Planescape: Torment IN SPACE, but it never came to pass after so much of the game material was cut due to time constraints.
Because it's just not so, Joe. For something to be an IN SPACE
version of something else, you should at least
be able to point out the similar characters/settings/plot. I've played all of them, but I fail to see the recycled aspect. SW: KOTOR is an RPG made by Bioware, and so is Neverwinter Nights — it would figure they would have some resemblance. Similarly, the sequel was developed by a team which included the remnants of Black Isle Studios, who developed PS: T — it's no wonder there's a stylistic similarity! To call that IN SPACE
just because Star Wars
is set in space isn't fair, though. What characters resemble each other, then? How is one setting a copy of the other? Is Jade Empire Baldur's Gate IN THE ORIENT
? It's just not a good example.
Sikon: Well, if you prefer IN THE STAR WARS UNIVERSE
to IN SPACE
in this particular case... :) I think there are enough recycled characters and story elements there.
: I've played BG 1 & 2, PS: T, KOTOR 1 & 2 and NN 2 — admittedly not NN 1, nor Icewind Dale. Now, they're all home to a big number of tropes — just start from the top of Videogame Tropes
and work your way down. But if we ignore the genre specifics, your claim is that characters and story elements are recycled. Well, I'll have to call and ask you to show your hand, that is, give some convincing examples beyond "most of those games have a Mighty Glacier
" and other standard RPG fare. I'll immediately grant you that the games play similarly
— they're genre-specific works made by a limited number of different people, so this wouldn't be surprising.
But the idea that, had it been finished, KOTOR 2 would have been PS: T in space is far-fetched to me. There are parallels, sure — the protagonist is a Mystery Figure with a Dark Past, and the plot is "discover what it all means" in both cases. That's nowhere near the "Jetsons is Flintstones IN THE FUTURE
" concept, though. Just because two things taste like chicken doesn't make one a SPACE CHICKEN
: Removed ...
Transformers was GI Joe AS GIANT TRANSFORMING ROBOTS. (Cobra Commander and Starscream were practically the same people, so not surprisingly they were both voiced by Chris Latta).
... because it's nonsensical. Transformers
and G.I. Joe
were contempary productions, and as far as I can tell the former actually became a regular series (as opposed to miniseries packages) first
. And it'd be rather hard for Starscream to be "practically the same" as Cobra Commander (at least at conception, when the ripping off would occur), since the bulk of his characterization was plotting to become leader, whereas Cobra Commander was actually commanding the COBRA organization already. (There's a subtle hint about that if you look closely. ;) ).
: Changing back the Sherlock Holmes in the 22nd Century
example, because it was funnier that way.
: The Eragon
example sounds more like X Meets Y
than a deliberately recycled story. It's probably an accurate description, but as far as I know, Eragon
wasn't intended to be a retelling of Star Wars
isn't jefferson starship just jefferson airplane in space?
: No, but you get a cookie for that remark, screw-the-duelists-i-have-money-in-america
: Taking out:
- Spider-Man Unlimited was simply Spider-Man IN ANOTHER DIMENSION where anthropomorphic animals ruled the planet.
Because it wasn't "the story of Spider-Man
, but transplanted into another dimension", it was literally "Spider-Man goes to another dimension".
: I'd like to take out Galaxy Quest
; it's less ˇThree Amigos! IN SPACE
and more Three Amigos meets Star Trek
: Couldn't agree more. I was just reading the page and this stuck out like a sore thumb, so I removed it.
: I hate the way that INSPACE runs together. Just sayin'.
<i>Sid Meiers Alpha Centauri is Civilization II IN ANOTHER </i>PLANET!
Given as the thing is pretty much a sequel to the Civilisation game(Though it NEVER says it outright, it IS obvious), can you BLAME it for this? It starts where Civ leaves off-the colony ship sent to Alpha Centauri, which is a victory condition for Civ.
- Star Trek's Original Series has been described by creator Gene Roddenberry as a Western in Space. Compare how captain Kirk and just about any character from a cowboy western at the time throws punches.
It's an example of Mix And Match
, not Recycled INSPACE
A Bit Vague
: Is it just me, or is "Scrubs is Grey's Anatomy AS A SITCOM" not a very good example here? I don't watch Grey's Anatomy, so I really can't comment on how similar they are (although I suspect they aren't similar enough to warrant being an example of this), but I'm fairly certain that Scrubs debuted almost four years before Grey's did, which would have made recycling the premise of Grey's Anatomy rather difficult. I'd just get rid of it, but I'm new here, so I figured I'd ask.
: Yeah, that's wrong. Not that "show set in hospital" is a particularly original concept, but if anyone should be claiming plagiarism here, it should be Scrubs
. Removing it.
Feel free to do it yourself, by the way, if you see something blatantly wrong. There's no hierarchy here.
did a Take That
suggesting precisely that. "It's like they saw our lives and put it on TV."
- To certain extent, two of the Discworld novels fall under this heading, with the first half ofPyramids being Tom Brown's Schooldays [-AT THE ASSASSINS' GUILD] and Night Watch as Les Misérables'' [-IN ANKH-MORPORK].
Direct parody doesn't count. (Or if it does there's much more than two DW novels that qualify: Phantom Of The Opera IN ANKH-MORPORK
; Macbeth IN LANCRE WITH A BIT OF HAMLET
; Fairy tales IN FANTASY COUNTERPART CULTURE NEW ORLEANS
. And that's just the Witches stories.)
Vexrm: Thanks to who ever edited my scooby example, looks so much better. I should have read the manual first.
Trouser Wearing Barbarian
: I just wanted to say that this is quite possibly the funniest page on this wiki
Danel: All of the Disney Live Action examples don't really fit - not only does most of this page require more of a similarity than a very, very basic set-up of character with two friends and annoying sibling, directed at tweens. Even then, a lot of the examples don't fit this.
: Oh, good, I'm not the only one. These examples are solid:
These ones need to be changed:
I couldn't comment on these ones because I haven't seen them, so someone else will have to make the call.
And I figured this could come out.
- In short, Lizzie McGuire is really just the bare bone basic Disney format: girl (or guy) with two friends (one girl, one boy) and an annoying sibling, who deals with basic teenage life. And for some reason, that became successful so Disney decided to recycle the hell out of that format.
I changed the article, but in case anyone was wondering why, there you go =]
Danel: I think I'm going to remove even more. "Features the trope ˇThree Amigos!
" just plain isn't enough to justify a claim that the shows are identical or even that similar beyond really just their use of that one trope.
: I started trying to clean up the Literature section (it's full of stuff based on
literature, whereas it should be examples where the recycled story is literature), but I honestly didn't have the energy to even start separating the Shakespeare section into film and TV. (I also think that now we have Setting Update
, a lot of examples don't need to be here as well.)
: I'm usually not one to remove LOST
mentions from this wiki, but "The Constant" has very little in common with Slaughterhouse-Five
except use of the concept of being "unstuck in time." I think there's a big difference between "inspired by" and "total ripoff of plot."
: I went to Edinburgh last week and I found this◊
. Someone has already mentioned it on this page but I added the link to the picture since I had gone and taken it (and getting some awkward looks in the process) just so I could post it on here.
brokenwit: Before anyone asks, let me explain: Unlike what Capcom was doing at the time (which was basically making every effort to implement the Marvel licence into fighting games), Fighters Megamix, a semi-last hurrah for 3D fighters on the Sega Saturn in 1997, had given Nintendo way too many ideas: While it was advertised as a "Virtua Fighter
vs. Fighting Vipers
" crossover, it was more a fighting game containing all the franchises done by development house AM2 at that point (including, oddly, Virtua Cop and Daytona). It was a standard 3D fighter, but with lots of quirkiness to it. For example, you could fight as the Hornet race car from Daytona USA who can blow itself up to be a better fighter, or a giant piece of meat on a bone.
Furthermore, a key component to the game was the "flash moves": Not only could did they do some significant damage, but they could break opponents' armor or weapons, and be used as a finishing move, sending their opponents off the screen and through arena walls, smashing them.
Anonymous: I am instituting a purge of the anime section because many of the examples are total BS, some obviously made as jokes instead of as actual examples of a recycled plot. There are probably a few more that need to be pulled, but I don't know both series being compared well enough. Here's the ones getting an axe and why:
- Under Studio Gonzo:
- Glass Fleet (the French Revolution IN SPACE!)
- Reason: It uses French names and has a people's army rising against a monarch. That's about it. No events, characters, or plot is really shared between the two.
- Blue Submarine Number Six is The Island Of Dr Moreau AFTER THE END!
- Reason: It has a mad scientist and animal-human hybrids. That's it. Nothing else between the plot or setting is shared at all. (Also, you know Moreau dies in the end.)
- Cowboy Bebop is bounty hunters IN SPACE! (Which of course doesn't detract from its many awesome qualities.)
- Reason: Seriously? Just "bounty hunters" in space is a recycled plot?
- Bleach is Dragon Ball WITH SWORDS AND GHOSTS AND ENGRISH AND SPANGRISH! Those are pretty much all of the changes.
- To be fair, Bleach is much more of a YuYu Hakusho copy.
- Reason: It's neither. Just because it's shonen and follows shonen tropes doesn't mean that it's a recycling of either plot.
- Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is Wild ARMs 5 IN SPACE!
- Reason: There are some parallels that could be dug up, but the plots and tones of both are completely different. (Where's the Johnny Appleseed bit figure into Gurren Lagann?)
- Parts 1 and 2 of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure are Fist of the North Star WITH VAMPIRES!
- Reason: Just 'cause the art style is similar doesn't mean there's anything PLOTWISE that's similar.
- Gundam 00 is Full Metal Panic! 300 YEARS INTO THE FUTURE WITHOUT THE COMEDY!
- Reason: I just don't see this at all. Maybe Setsuna and Sagara have similar backgrounds, but otherwise, this is just "OMG! TEHY BOTH HAVE ROBATS!"
- Gunbuster is Top Gun WITH SHOUJO-NESS and GIANT ROBOTS!
- Reason: What!? This is just getting silly. What do either of the two have to do with each other other than the fact that they involve characters training to be pilots?
- Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha is Gundam WITH LESBIAN MAGICAL GIRLS!
- Reason: What the hell? No themes of war, no rival nations, no mecha, no nothing in Gundam in Nanoha.
- The 08th MS Team is Romeo and Juliet WITH HUMONGOUS MECHA!
- Reason: The mere presence of star-crossed lovers does not a Romeo and Juliet retread make.
- Code Geass is Death Note WITH MECHA!
- Reason: Being silly again. An ambitious villain protagonist with a power that lets you be a puppeteer (for a short while in Death Note anyway) is not enough to make one series nothing but a retread of the other.
- This Ugly Yet Beautiful World is Elfen Lied with SPACE AND LESS HUMAN BLOOD!
- Reason: A lot less. In fact, the ENTIRE tone of the series is vastly different.
- Baccano!! is Pulp Fiction WITH ALCHEMY!
- Reason: WTF? Absolutely nothing in common except non-linear storytelling.
- Naruto is Harry Potter WITH NINJAS!
- Reason: Okay, you know what? Just screw you guys. I'm going home.
Lavode: I'd say Gunbuster
is pretty obviously based on Top Gun
(of course, I'm the one who added it). The heroine becomes a pilot in order to find out what really happened to her dad, who was killed in action; the school's best student, Kazumi, doubts her abilities, but Noriko gets to save the day when Kazumi gets a case of Heroic BSOD
in midbattle; Noriko accidentally causes her training partner's death and is overcome with self doubt... and there's a teacher-student romance. Also, the Japanese title (Top wo Nerae!
) is supposed to acknowledge the show's two main sources of inspiration: Top Gun
and Ace wo Nerae!
Putting it back in.
Xexyzl: I don't think you're giving the Gundam 00 example enough credit. You disregard the fact that Celestial Being pretty much IS Mithril/Amalgam 300 years in the future. Whether it's close enough to count as a legit example, I dunno, but don't deny some very key similarities between the two.
is not Fallout WITH RAGDOLLS
! That would require the setting to, you know, resemble Fallout
in any way beyond it being post-apocalyptic. If anything, it's Terminator WITH RAGDOLLS
, but I really don't think it belongs on this page at all.
: Here's my removals, for similar reasons as above.
Removing this entire list. Final Fantasy games contain very different characters and plot from each other and from Star Wars.
- Final Fantasy XII is Star Wars IN A FANTASY SETTING!
- Appropriate, given that Star Wars is literally your typical fantasy adventure story IN SPACE!
- FF 2 is Star Wars IN A FANTASY SETTING! Just play through the game and count the similarities...
- Maybe, but FF 4 was Final Fantasy IN SPACE! WITH ALIENS! AND ROBOTS!
- Final Fantasy VII is Final Fantasy WITH MORE MODERN TECHNOLOGY AND CIVILIZATION THAN USUAL!
- Stinkoman 20X6 is Mega Man WITH A BLUE-HAIRED, CONSTANTLY SHIRTLESS LEAD!
- Kingdom Hearts is Final Fantasy IN DISNEYWORLD!! (Or vice versa.)
- In a similar vein, Super Mario RPG is Final Fantasy IN THE MUSHROOM KINGDOM!
- Neither of those are recycling. Final Fantasy is not the only JRPG in existence.
- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night is Metroid IN DRACULA'S CASTLE!
- Castlevania: Bloodlines is Castlevania IN THE 20TH CENTURY!
- Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow is Castlevania: Symphony of the Night IN 2035!
- Come on... games with similar gameplay don't mean they're recycled.
- Metroid is The Legend of Zelda IN SPACE! WITH A CHICK!
BritBllt: This trope's in serious danger of becoming too cluttered with examples to mean anything. It seems like it should really be reserved for things that actually are
obviously the same story transplanted to a different setting. Instead, we're getting every half-hearted comparision people can come up with, such as "X is Y except with giant robots, and the main character's a rabbit, and they all ride tanks and instead of solving mysteries they're saving the world from a race of alien plants!" I know there's some subjectivity in what counts as "obvious", but if there's more than two qualifiers in the description (like "X is Y in a spaceship AND with guns instead of swords AND they travel through time"), that's probably a hint that it's not really "Recycled in Space" at all.
: Hold one, why was the picture removed? Is there a problem? Someone just biased against Homestar Runner?
Man Without A Body
: Whatever the reason, it's back now.
: Taking a chainsaw to this. If you disagree on any of my reasonings, feel free to discuss.
- Cowboy Bebop is Cowboys IN SPACE!
- Reason: You can't recycle an entire genre.
- Sekirei is often referred to by fans (jokingly) as Pokémon WITH TITS!
- Reason: This is a case of X Meets Y, not Recycled
- Digimon is Pokémon WITH LESS CUTE MONSTERS! AND IN COMPUTERS!
- Axis Powers Hetalia is world history ON ANTIDEPRESSANTS! AND WITH CUTE MOE ANTHROPOMORPHS!
- The Mummy (1999) is not so much a remake of any previous film of that title as it is Raiders of the Lost Ark AS A MONSTER MOVIE!
- Reason: Just because it deals with exploring ancient tombs doesn't mean it's Indiana Jones. Both are mild send-ups of the old action pupls, but that's it.
- A history channel documentary named Sex in Space, which is Exactly What It Says on the Tin.
- Reason: This trope is not about things being in space
- The Doom film was the Resident Evil films IN SPACE!
- Reason: They're both action films based off of video games with horror themes. Nothing more.
- Star Wars — A New Hope is also, by word of George Lucas, The Lord of the Rings IN SPACE!
- Reason: Even if Lucas said it, it doesn't make it so. The fact is, A New Hope plays most typical fantasy tropes to the hilt, not just ones from Lord of the Rings.
- The 2009 Star Trek film is Star Wars A LONG TIME FROM NOW IN A GALAXY NOT-TOO-FAR AWAY! At least according to College Humor.
- O Brother, Where Art Thou? is Homer's Odyssey...IN THE SOUTH!
- Reason: There's a difference between an omage and recylcled.
- Many episodes of the 1970s Battlestar Galactica are lifted from classic movies; (and all sub-entries)
- Reason: Recycled refers to a series or a movie, not an individual episode.
- Many episodes of Hercules: The Legendary Journeys and Xena: Warrior Princess are lifted from classic movies, themes or tropes, especially in later seasons. (Probably too many to list individually!)
- Most of the Star Trek items
- Reason: Same as above. Additionally, Klingons being Russians, Vulcans being Elves, etc. is a different trope altogether.
- The Doctor Who episode "Voyage of the Damned" was The Poseidon Adventure IN SPACE!
- Reason: Same as the last 3
- Homeboys in Outer Space was, well... Exactly What It Says on the Tin.
- Reason: This trope is not about things being in space
- Farscape, with varying degrees of delight, made several such episodes. Possibly the most memorable is the one where, locked inside his own mind, Crichton turns his existence into a Looney Tunes cartoon, with a lot of reference to the Wile E. Coyote/Roadrunner cartoons.
- Reason: Again, this is episodes, and their example isn't even a real example of this trope.
- Star Fox Adventures became Legend of Zelda IN SPACE! when Nintendo replaced the setting with ''StarFox'' characters and also made it a game that didn't please the fans of the series at all. Before that, it was more like Legend of Zelda WITH FURRIES!, something Rare has done quite a few times with more success (Mario 64-> Banjo-Kazooie, Mario Kart -> Diddy Kong Racing, not to mention the older Donkey Kong games).
- For that matter, Star Fox is Star Wars WITH FURRIES! Or perhaps furries IN SPACE! Whatever floats your
- Reason: You can't claim a genre or a play style as this trope.
- ''Call of Duty
5: World at War has been essentially called Call of Duty 4 IN WORLD WAR 2! to those who do not think is was changed enough.
- Metal Gear Solid is Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake IN ALASKA! (with 3D graphics). Metal Gear Solid 2 is Metal Gear Solid WITH POSTMODERNISM AND IN NEW YORK! The entire series can probably be described inversely as Splinter Cell ON LARGE AMOUNTS OF PSYCHEDELICS!
- Reason: A sequel going to Alaska (and upgrading to 3D graphics) is not enough to qualify.
- Ninja Gaiden is Castlevania WITH NINJAS! (And less crappy controls.)
- Reason: This is genre, not recycled.
- The Ganbare Goemon games stars the Japanese folk hero Ishikawa Goemon AS A HIGHLY VISIBLE NINJA IN A WIDGET GAME SERIES WITH SCHIZO TECH AND HUMONGOUS MECHA! Ishikawa Goemon, in turn, is ROBIN HOOD IN FEUDAL JAPAN! All oddness and cultural differences aside, they're actually pretty good.
- Reason: You can't claim something based off of real Japanese folklore is being recycled off of European folk lore. The Goemon games themselves are more of a reimagining than a recycling.
- American McGee's Alice is Alice in Wonderland COMING DOWN FROM HEROIN!
- Reason: This is more of a reimagining as well.
- Primal Rage is Mortal Kombat WITH DINOSAURS AND GORILLAS!
- Reason: This is genre, not recycled.
- Meanwhile, Looney Tunes: Cartoon Conductor is Elite Beat Agents WITH LOONEY TUNES CHARACTERS!
- A DS game based on the movie Happy Feet is Elite Beat Agents WITH PENGUINS!
- High School Musical: Makin' the Cut is Elite Beat Agents WITH BUBBLEGUM POP
- Super Smash Bros. is Fighters Megamix BY NINTENDO!
- Reason: Smash Bros. sold from the draw of Nintendo characters. I don't think it had anything to do with Fighters Megamix
- Final Fantasy XII is Star Wars NOT IN SPACE!
- Reason: It was removed before, it's being removed again.
- Eversion is Super Mario Bros. IN A MORE FLOWERY WORLD! And later, IN HELL!
- Reason: It's genre. Just because it's a platformer, doesn't mean it's Mario.
- Since game developers can't seem to come up with anything new, most real time strategies are Dune II WTH ANOTHER BACKSTORY and usually without the glory that is Sand Worms
- Sly Cooper is basically Ocean's Eleven FOR FURRIES!
- Reason: Sly Cooper is your typical Gentleman Thief. That's all.
- Saints Row is Grand Theft Auto WITH PLAYER CUSTOMIZATION!
- Reason: Genre. 'Nuff said.
- Red Faction Guerrilla is Saints Row 2 ON MARS! AND YOU BLOW UP BUILDINGS INSTEAD OF PEOPLE!
- Reason: They're both sandboxes from the same company (and they're technically in the same continuity) but that's it.
- Prototype is Hulk: Ultimate Destruction IF THE HULK HAD A SYMBIOTE SUIT!
- Reason: I haven't played Hulk, but I know enough backstory between the two to know they don't qualify.
- Quake I: Doom in true 3D.
- Reason: This is a case of Follow the Leader
- 3D Pinball for Windows is pinball IN SPACE!...for WINDOWS XP! ... or 2000, ME, 98, NT.
- Reason: It's hardly the first space-based pinball game... or the first windows-based pinball game.
- Subversion: Tenchu might be seen as Metal Gear Solid IN FEUDAL JAPAN WITH (NON-CYBORG) NINJAS, but Tenchu actually came out months earlier.
- Reason: They're just stealth games. Storylines and even mechanics are completely different.
- Zap! IN SPACE!
- Reason: In space? Yes. Recycled? No.
- Starslip is an art museum strip IN SPACE, and its characters know it. They drink "space grog," try not to get "behind space-schedule," and shout "GOOD SPACE HEAVENS!" when surprised.
- Reason: Again, not recycled.
- And Atlantis: The Lost Empire is Stargate IN ATLANTIS!
- Reason: Ancient ruins =/= Stargate!
- (From Brother Bear) Let's not forget, Rutt and Tuke are the Mc Kenzie Brothers of SCTV fame AS MOOSE!
- Reason: This is Celebrity Stand-in
- ExoSquad is essentially World War II IN SPACE!
- Reason: There's some allusions to superior race, but that doesn't turn the Neo Sapiens into Nazis (or Jews. I'm not sure where the original troper was going with this).
- Sylvester and Tweety Mysteries is, as you can probably guess, Sylvester and Tweety (oh, and Granny) AS AMATEUR SLEUTHS!
- This is a completely different genre, as opposed to merely a different setting.
- "The Incredibles" is "Fantastic Four" WITH WATCHMEN THEMES AND A WANNABE ASCENDED FANBOY AS THE VILLAIN!
- Reason: Too many qualifiers. Also, powers aside, the Parr family has little in common with the Fantastic Four. Similiarly, a ban on superheroes does not mean you're Watchmen.
: I added some qualifiers to hopefully redirect most of the bad examples to other locations.
- Vice President Joe Biden is Dick Cheney BUT A LIBERAL DEMOCRAT!
- Reason: Really? It's just personal political crap.
CBS just announced CSI MIAMI IN SPACE. I am not making this up.