Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.


Sorry to break convention and put this at the top of the page but I think its important because there seems to be a great deal of confusion about what reconstruction is. Lets start out with what it is not.

  • Reconstruction does not simply strip out the commentary of previous deconstruction. Disneyfication or Adaptation Distillation are not reconstructions.
  • Reconstruction is not merely referencing or making fun of a deconstruction. Parody, homage, and reference can be reconstructions but they are not simply by their nature.
  • Reconstruction is not simply "going back to basics". A Continuity Reboot or return to a "classic" model does not constitute a reconstruction.

A reconstruction must confront a previous deconstruction, addresses its criticisms, and then integrate that into a reconstruction. Please read the articles again if you are confused, and if you aren't sure ask here before hand. Its a very tricky and subjective concept, but there are some things that clearly don't belong here. —Petro

"Regardless of being part of the Brave series, its style was very much a reaction to Eva"

"The brave series actually had a very normal, consistent release schedule. Gao Gai Gar was another standard Braves entry, regardless of the release of Evangelion. This is understandable, as Gao Gai Gar often dwarfs the previous entries in exposure and memory. Doubly so for non-japanese fans"

To prevent an edit debate, I've taken this minor conflict for all to discuss. The subjectivity of this trope, combined with the troper community's love of speaking in hyperbole makes for a bit of a mess here. (though Reconstruction examples should be easier to back with empirical evidence than other subjective tropes)Since 1990, the braves series has had an unflinching annual release schedule. One series, one year. Much like Toei's sentai and kamen rider franchises, Sunrise will begin work on next year's series not even before the previous series' run is completely finished. I don't believe GaoGaiGar is a "deliberate reaction" to Evangelion. If anything, the series continued completely unabated marching on through whilst ignoring other trends. This in itself (the lack of a reaction) may be the reaction desired, but content-wise nothing is changed within the show itself.

The argument I'm presenting here, is that reconstruction in it's truest form shows a return to previous structure and tones with improvements that reflect learned discrepancies found in a deconstruction. GaoGaiGar doesn't display notable change. It didn't "return" to previous structure and tone due to never leaving in the first place.

Keep in mind some reiterated ideas:

.1990-1997 provided a yearly braves series. .Evangelion aired in 1995. Some mecha shows did indeed take influence from it's impact. .Brave Command Dagwon aired in 1996. Aside from slightly abstract monster design, it did not re-tool itself in writing, tone, or structure.

I'm not particuarly butthurt, but the undid-edit makes me want to discuss this more in-depth. Especially considering the prominence of Mecha in playing with reconstructions, deconstructions, throw-backs, homages, trendiness, split-sub-mecha genre distinctions, blurring of sub-genres, etc...

Scrounge: Somebody please tidy this up? I think my prose got a bit too purple here...

Sci Vo: Copying this over from YKTTW:
Ununnilium: Basically, it's "going back to basics". It's taking a genre that has been deconstructed until it's a cliche, going back, and making a new entry in the genre that shows why everybody liked it in the first place.

Solandra: Isn't this just a rehash of Affectionate Parody (or vice-versa, depending on which one came first)?

Sci Vo: No, it seems to be about a trope making an unironic re-entry after complete deconstruction exhaustion has been achieved. If I'm understanding this correctly, it's affectionate — that much is true — but it's played straight, like... voluntary naivete? I think that's the term used for the end of a spiritual quest, when someone finally decides to just accept all of the inherent contradictions of whatever faith has the most resonance for them. This seems analogous. I'm not at all confident about that, though. I'm still trying to understand it myself.
Shay Guy: I have trouble understanding this, too. How does Astro City, for instance, differ from pre-Watchmen Silver Age comics in this regard? Is it basically just pressing the "undo" button on a deconstruction? Or take Eva - what would be the reconstruction in anime, there? Love Hina? GAINAX's own Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, ten years later? Again, are they at all different from what came before? Maybe, like "retro," it has to do with common side features becoming a main selling point? Even if it's a subtle difference, I have trouble believing that Astro City, if shown to someone in the '60s, would not somehow imply the prior existence of Watchmen.
Shay Guy: On The Other Wiki's article for The Princess Bride, I found a link to this article on "reconstructivist art," which lists The Princess Bride, 1/0 (!), Diesel Sweeties, The Lion King, and a bunch of others. The criteria it lists are "a nod to artifice," "a classic structure," "transcontextual and/or iconic elements," and "moments of genuine emotion or significance." Do you think these all have that?

Puffy Treat: Really, I'm not sure the description of Astro City as "A celebration of silver age comics" is accurate. -Some- of the early Astro City arcs featured silver-age-type heroes, but the books were not written or drawn in a silver age style. Plus, the book has always gone into areas to the silver age never did...areas of sexuality, violence, race issues, and some very downbeat, bittersweet emotions in the darker arcs like "Confession" and the current "Dark Age" maxi-series.

Ununnilium: Okay, in response to all of the above: A reconstruction isn't just taking a deconstructed genre and making an entry that's indistinguishable from the ones pre-deconstruction. It's about taking the original, acknowledging the flaws that the deconstruction pointed out, and making a new entry that shows that we've learned from it. Astro City isn't a reconstruction in spite of its maturity, it's one because of them. Kingdom Come implies the existence of The Dark Knight Returns or something like it. It's unironic because it recognizes you don't have to be ironic to be good. It's played straight, not because we forget the past, but because we recognize that, when you make a mistake, you don't give up on the whole thing, you learn from the mistake and try again.

Took out this bit of work from the Department of Redundancy Department.
  • While Tenacious D tend to go towards Affectionate Parody lyrically, musically, they take themselves seriously.

Shay Guy:
  • God of War could be seen as a reconstruction of the original Greek Pantheon, as it shows all of the Greek Gods as the Jerkasses they actually were, in contrast to their Disneyfication in other works such as Disney's interpretation of Hercules.

No. No, Disneyfication is not a deconstruction, and therefore, by our definition, un-Disneyfication is not a reconstruction. Re- must be preceded by de-. Come on, people, read those definitions, and be sure you understand them before adding examples - it's one of the biggest problems this wiki has.
Caphi: Gurren-Lagann isn't a reconstruction. The genre was not in a state of constant deconstruction and seriousness, as it was in 1997 when Sunrise released GaoGaiGar, and its intent is not to counteract any trends in the genre.
ced1106: Page needs categorization.
Wanders Nowhere: Would anyone here consider The Dark Knight films to be a reconstruction of Batman? Sure, one couldn't exactly call the Schumacher films a 'deconstruction' (though he probably meant them as a parody), but Nolan's movies have certainly done the hard work to rebuild Batman from the ground up and examine who he is, why he does what he does, and why he is a hero. To me at least, TDK was an affirmation of everything Batman has always stood for, especially compared to what they're doing to him in the comics right now. What're your thoughts?

randomfanboy: Nah. That's Adaptation Distillation.
Fly: Taking out:
  • Metal Gear Solid 4 attempts to reconstruct the action genre that it had very thoroughly and often depressingly dismantled by the time Big Boss saluted his dead commander in MGS 3. The heroes, emotional or physical wrecks by the halfway point, all get their chance to make good and give the player the sensation of being a big damn hero once more.
because, um, what? There's a happy ending, but that doesn't change the fact that it was achieved by basically murdering everyone vaguely good and putting an old man in a microwave for what turns out to be no reason.

Battle Hamster: I took this one out

because there hasn't really been a big deconstruction where it was torn down power metal was torn down. It did kind of die in the late 80's/early '90s (though plenty of bands kept going) but Edguy/Sonata Arctica/even Rhapsody (of Fire)/a bunch of other bands helped start it up again well before DF appeared.

Count Spatula: This might be a little contraversial, so I'll put it here before I consider adding it to the main article, but I recently saw the Watchmen film, and in many ways it seems to actually be a reconstruction of the origional graphic novel (and possibly the entire Dark Age of comics as well.) Just putting this thought out there.

randomfanboy: Because I love to quote myself: Nah. That's Adaptation Distillation. Edit: Since this is a common misconception, I decided to make myself useful and stick a note on the actual page.

Carterboy: If Appaloosa falls between a Deconstruction and a Reconstruction, doesn't it basically play the genre straight?

Ulti S.: It's already under Anime and Manga so I'm cutting it:


Cut some really bad natter:
  • For that reason, Kingdom Come might be more aptly termed a deconstruction of the Age of Deconstruction itself than a reconstruction proper.
  • This Troper still sees it as a reconstruction. It showed what made the idealized golden-age superheroes truly heroes; it was not their almost supernatural abilities and power. It was their readiness to put humanity and moral ideals first no matter what the personal cost.
  • It had the "golden age" heroes create a very fascist version of the Justice League and a very misguided gulag. And they only snapped out of it after apocalyptic events occur that significantly reduce the numbers on both sides. That seems more downbeat and grim than idealized.
  • If you look closely at the subtext of it, it deconstructs the whole reasons WHY comics moved the direction they did during the Dark Age. By failing to adapt to changing times, the Silver Age superheroes became irrelevant, and this in turn created a power vacuum that opened the flood gates for heroes that went too far. The only Silver Age hero that was able to stay relevant was Batman, (much like in real life) and whereas Superman had to die and be resurrected to stay relevant in the early 90s, Kingdom Come had him become completely irrelevant and go into retirement. Then of course there's the whole "rehabilitation gulag" that shows exactly why Silver Age heroes wouldn't work, and hence why they became irrelevant in the first place. The ending where everyone takes off their masks and rejoin human society should be a dead give away — superheroes, be they Silver Age or Dark Age, don't work. Not any more. This really foreshadows the direction that comics would actually go in, with more and more people switching over to manga, or non superhero comics like Fables, or Bone. At least that's my take on it.
  • I find it difficult to see how one could get "super-heroes don't work" from the story. Besides, Word of God (both of them) has confirmed that it was meant to stand against the Dark Age.
  • Well if that's what they where trying to go for, they failed.

Keep it to the discussion page, please.

  • So then it doesn't exist? Because there was nothing to Super Friends other than camp, token characters, and low budgt visuals.


I don't really see this as a reconstruction. It's more telling a new story with the same plot but a different style.

I cut the Rebuild of Evangelion example, but the reason I entered was sort of a mistake. I forgot to mention how it averts the same tropes the original does.