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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Amethyst: Would Ten Little Indians qualify? (The victims of the killer are themselves murderers and their deaths are arranged to fit in with the verses of a nursery rhyme, but I'm not sure such deaths would qualify as being entirely ironic in nature.) Ditto for the movie The Abominable Dr. Phibes whose killer based his murder spree off of the Ten Plagues of Exodus. What do you think?

Silverfish: I was originally intending this as a counterpart to Ironic Hell(both were actually proposed together), and Karmic Death, only with serial killers doing the "punishing", rather than God, or the writer. But I think there's room for a broader interpretation. I still think the Se7en type killer should be the main trope, but we could mention other killers who set up allegorical murders (as with the two you mention), as a variation. It's difficult to know where to draw the line though.

Jordan: Something added to the Karmic Death thing is that because Phibes' female sidekick unexpectedly returns in the sequel and it's just as hard to explain him returning, one of the Epilectic Trees theories that has arisen is that she is an evil angel aiding him in his vengance.


Prfnoff: Sweeney Todd just doesn't fit this trope.


Daibhid C: Pulled this from both Film and Literature:
  • Claudandus aka Pascal from Felidae murdered hundreds of cats after escaping from the lab because he wanted the females all to himself and felt that others were unworthy and he did all this because he was dying, when he is not killing he acts like a kind sophisticated old gentleman.
    • Although there is also an element of eugenics in this: Claudandus intends to resurrect a breed of ancient egyptian cats and performs some rather unnatural selection to that end, including the killing of members of the said breed if they run into danger of producing hybrids.
      • To be correct, it's just eugenics. Claudandus wanted the correct females to be impregnated with the correct males' DNA, but there is no hint whatsoever that he deemed his own DNA worthy. Since Claudandus seems to be European Shorthair by race, it's rather improbable. Claudandus had the vision, but it's highly probable that the biological seed came from other males completely.
      • Not just probable, but almost certainly true. It's revealed fairly late in the movie (and book) that Claudandus had been neutered years before. Additionally, the book reveals that he didn't get his idea for a "master race" until he'd been living with Ziebold for some time. Unless Ziebold didn't have him neutered fairly soon, Claudandus couldn't have fathered any member of his master race. Further, while the movie didn't specify any of the cats' breeds, Claudandus is shown in the book to be a Havana brown, an elegant and highly intelligent breed of cat. While his breeding program was never shown in full detail, the Havana brown possibly possessed traits he'd find desirable for his cause and thus might have used his own genes had he been able, though that's just speculation.
  • Claudandus aka Pascal from Felidae murdered hundreds of cats after escaping from the lab because he wanted the females all to himself and felt that others were unworthy and he did all this because he was dying, when he is not killing he acts like a kind sophisticated old gentleman.
    • Claudandus did not want all the females for himself. He was neutered some time before he started killing, and was creating a "master race" of cats through a careful breeding program using both males and females possessing traits he found desirable for his cause.
There's nothing in any of that about killing the victims in a poetic way.