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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

lollerkeet: Given Hollywood Atheist is still in vogue, I wonder if atheists really belong here?


Freezair For A Limited Time: Cut:

  • Or they're only "funny" because an army of Archie Bunkers thinks so, and they're not subverting anything at all. Just a thought, there.
  • Hey, there's a reason everyone found Archie Bunker funniest.
  • Yeah-because he's such a Jerk Ass.sr
  • All this troper can say is, TV sided with women on every sitcom he watched growing up, (rest assured, every conflict or contest between a male and a female on TV started with a gloating male and ended with a triumphant woman, so I spent a lot of time trying to avoid anything that remotely resembled that kind of behavior only to discover that women are no more innocent than men.) so he's enjoying the subversions. Every positive male trait has been corrupted or twisted into a flaw that is now demonized, so this troper no longer apologizes for laughing at these jokes.
  • You know, people have a point in claiming that this particular kind of Positive Discrimination is sexist against men, because it is. But this troper believes it's also sexist against women, because it's often used to keep the women from having any fun or otherwise make them into nagging fuddy-duddies. Yeah, the women are portrayed as smarter, more practical or morally superior to the men, but they still don't get the good lines, the interesting quirks or the funny plots, and it can potentially be used to justify the idea that a woman's role in life is just to clean up men's messes rather than to have fun or adventures of her own — but it's not just the same old sexism repackaged to be prettier, really! It's just because she's so much SMARTER and BETTER! That's all! Basically, I think it just sucks on both ends, because it makes men into lazy, stupid, immature dolts while still justifying the idea that a woman's life should revolve around a man and taking care of/picking up after him, or, at the very least, that "good girls" don't have any fun.

Lots of natter, and lots of stuff that really don't fly with the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement. Please, people—it's nice to know that you're thinking about how society portrays gender roles... But this wiki is not a soapbox.

Gemmifer: Huh? It's not?

Rebochan: Right, I took a shot at the "Women" entry, if only because it's so prevalent on the Internet and in New Media today.

Mercy: "All this troper can say is, TV sided with women on every sitcom he watched growing up" Well, I suppose it depends how selectively you watch (and maybe how old you are).
  • Consider Lucy in "The Lucy Show" and "I Love Lucy", and the male Desi Arnaz's inevitable catchphrase at the end of most episodes "Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do!".
  • Consider pretty much every female character in "Bewitched" other than Samantha and Tabitha, but especially Gladys Kravitz and Aunt Clara.
  • Consider the daughters in "The Brady Bunch". Pretty much every female stereotype ever!


Kizor: Good evening. I found this paragraph attached to the "women" entry. The entry itself is a bit disturbing in its aggressiveness, but could I get some opinions about the accuracy and appropriateness of the added paragraph? I'm not buying the statement that webcomics ("in particular") relish rape, not just like that.

  • Yet there's still plenty of places where this is still acceptable. Webcomics in particular relish in portraying women as far too stupid to understand anything like computers or other geeky stuff or why it is totally okay for men to grope their breasts, make them show their breasts, or rape them. In fact, if a woman anywhere (real life or in the entertainment) protests the behavior, they will quickly be labeled a Straw Feminist and told to get a sense of humor. Also, it's still perfectly acceptable to insult anything simply because "girls like it". Because if a girl likes something, it's obviously garbage. Finally, whereas a women will often be shown as "right" and triumphant over her stupid man, she's still a horrible nagging fuddy duddy that is basically expected to babysit any overgrown manchild that latches onto her and ruin his fun.

Mercy In how many media other than web-comics would something like Shredded Moose see the light of day?

Kizor: Point. I'm all for judging webcomics by Shredded Moose if, in turn, we base our attitudes towards literature on The Turner Diaries.


EternalKanus: Cut for ridiculous inaccuracy, and response cut for responding to said inaccuracy (cut in bold)

  • Many Muslims were (and still are) portrayed as violent, bigoted terrorists. Only the Radicals and Fundamentalists deserve that treatment. In This Troper's opinion, it should not be lumped on Muslims as a whole. Fortunatley, with a Muslim president, this particular stereotype may begin to die out.
    • ...You're kidding, right? 'Cause I'm from Canada, and even I'm aware of all the backlash Obama got regarding his choice of CHRISTIAN minister and church, which seems to be pretty compelling evidence that he's not Muslim. For the most part, the only people who bring up his supposed Islamic leanings are the type of people who saw it as a reason not to vote for him, and as the beginning of the end for the "Christian nation" of America.

==Asians== Are still very accetable targets im going to remove them from this list.


Mercy: An anonymous troper cut the following passage from the section on atheists, with the edit reason "Sorry, but this is wrong":

"but in American media atheists are often seen as Acceptable Targets, frankly mirroring real world attitudes in a country where atheists are regarded with considerable suspicion and mistrust. This tendency is much less common in Europe, where overt religiosity is less common."

There are three points in this section:

1. That atheists are still seen as acceptable targets in American media. See Hollywood Atheist.
2. That this mirrors widespread American attitudes, with a supporting link.
3. That this tendency is less common in European media.

I don't know which of the three points the troper thought was "wrong", but I've restored the section pending discussion, or at least more selective editing.


cut:
  • In much of the US, convenience stores are somewhat crudely known as "Haji-Marts".
  • [Citation Needed], big time. (This Troper is a 38-year-old US native, and has never heard this term, ever.)
  • When I was in the Army, the term "Hajji-mart" usually referred to the markets that the locals in Iraq and Afghanistan would set up off post when we were deployed. Very occasionally, someone would refer to a convenience store stateside this way, but that was the exception.
  • When I was in Kirkuk, there was an actual store called, by its owner, "Imid's Haji Bazaar"...
  • Also, Citation Needed? THIS! IS! TVTROPES!... Okay, couldn't help myself. I'm done here, folks.
  • It's disturbingly acceptable in some British communities to talk about "the Paki shop". My naive younger self refused to believe this was anything more than a mishearing of "'baccy shop".
  • At least in the Northeastern U.S., "Packy" can just refer to a package store, and is usually used in that context.
  • Similarly, in Sweden tobacco shops are often referred to as "Turk kiosks" because they are often run by middle eastern immigrants, among them Turks.
  • In Germany, eating at a foreign restaurant can be referred to as going to "the Italian" or "the Chinese".
  • ... or "the Greek", "the Japanese", "the Australian", depending upon what national cuisine they actually serve. What else should one call it? It can't possibly get more politically correct than that.
  • Apart from when you call it, as they do round here, 'the chinky'. Which always makes this troper cringe when she hears it.

and also this, though this could be a something to be discussed:

  • Indians have actually made great strides within the entertainment industry within the last few years. There are successful Indian comedians such as Aziz Ansari and Aasif Mandvi (a current correspondent of The Daily Show) as well as actors such as Kal Penn and Dev Patel. Mindy Kaling is an Indian-American who writes for and stars in the US version on The Office and her character of Kelly has to be the least stereotypical Indian character on television.
    • However, this can be (Partially) attributed to the fact that all of them are Indian in ethnicity only, not culture, and, in the comedy circuit at least, have fairly impressive routines built almost solely on lambasting Indian culture. See Russell Peters.

...and upon reading further this trope page needs serious work. The natter etc is overflowing.