This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Blork: Removed this one. The most likely explanation as to why the article went on for so long without mentioning it is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the trope:
- This troper cannot see how this article has gone on this long without including StarCraft: There's not a moment in the expansion when the player is not furthering the motives of Kerrigan, who is also quite the Chessmaster. Having been infected by the Zerg, Kerrigan masterminds a plot to become the new Overmind and control them and conquer the universe.
Removed this.
- Heavens feel route of Fate Stay Night. Yea, turns out Sakura was not actually that much under the control of Zouken or Angra Mainyu. She preferred to think she wasn't in control of her own actions, though it's rather transparent to the player, Shirou and Tohsaka that she is. Instead, she's only completely emotionally broken and Drunk with Power to the point that killing/raping Tohsaka out of jealousy and absorbing Shirou's soul sounds like a fantastic idea. But she gets better.
- Though only after pulling the biggest Karma Houdini this troper has ever seen.
It's just utter rubbish. She isn't fully in control of her actions, and she certainly isn't herself. As the shadow (which is what does most of the bad things) she's not in control at all. And, it certainly isn't transparent to the player, since if it were, Sakura would be universally hated. And, it's certainly not transparent to Rin or Shirou, given that neither of them ever really blame her for what she did afterwards, and both of them want to save her (even if Rin denies it). And, it's not a Karma Houdini, either, because in the main route, she never did anything worthy of punishment, and she's pretty far in credit in terms of Karmic punishment anyway, given everything Zouken has done to her in the past.
Dark Sakura, arguably, does have some sense of control, but other than the last bad end (where she's clearly gone totally insane), she doesn't actually do anything exceptionally bad. Note that the "killing/raping Rin and absorbing Shirou" bit only happens in a bad end, after which she isn't redeemed. In the main route, she never does it, and, judging by her actions in the earlier part of the game, she never intended to do this, until Rin shouted her mouth off and drove her utterly nuts. Maybe she's not entirely under the control of Angra Mainyu, but it certainly isn't helping, and she's certainly not sane when she goes tumbling over the Moral Event Horizon in the last bad end.
Also, there are several lines in the summary that explicitly don't fit here.
"You break out your Magic Antidote that's worked on a million victims before and hit it... and nothing happens. " but, here, it does. Rule Breaker frees her entirely (along with Rin's love).
"And you can't bring them back the way you can to everybody else." Again, he can and does.
This comes fairly well under More than Mind Control, but it doesn't fit here at all, really.
Sylvia Sybil: I sorted the examples into the different media and added folders.
It seems to me that since we only have half a dozen comedy examples, we should add those back into the main sections. If it needs to be explained that the trope is being played for comedy, then we should say that in each example. It just looks a little silly having a long list of dramatic examples and such a short list of comedy examples.
