Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Looney Toons: I'd wanted to include a checklist of "telltale signs" of a Macekre in the main entry, but I can think of too many exceptions in either direction to really make it worthwhile. However, for completeness' sake, here is as much of that list as I managed to come up with before I gave up on it. If folks want to take it and run with it, I won't object.

Telltale signs of a Macekred Anime:

(One or two of these may occur "naturally" in an imported anime without it being a Macekre; three or more, though, make it a good bet, and five or more is pretty much a sure thing.)

  • A complete lack of Japanese names in the cast, even (especially!) for obvious natives of Japan (Exception: Things like Steamboy which have no Japanese characters)
  • Either excessive melodrama or excessive lameness in the English names of people, places and organizations. Especially indicative are overly "science-fictiony" names for characters in science fiction series — for instance, "Derek Wildstar" and "Nova" from Starblazers (Uchuu Senkan Yamato).
  • Optical replacement of kanji in signs with English text (this is sometimes hard to tell apart from Gratuitous English, but in general schools and places of business will not normally have signs in English)
  • Generous application of Namedar among foes
  • Unexplained Art Shifts halfway through the show, or at the one-third and/or two-thirds points.
  • Complete cast changes at the same points
  • Massive jumps in time and/or space at the same points
  • A female dub voice for what is obviously a bishonen or yaoi character, particularly one in an obvious relationship with another man.
  • Never Say "Die" — particularly for good guys, who will be captured (and rescued) off-screen, but never seen again. DiC's deliberate obfuscation of the heroic sacrifices made by the Senshi in the finale of the first season of Sailor Moon is an especially odiferous example.

LE Xicon 712: Here's a list of all the Anime dubs that can truly be referred to as Macekres:

I plan to post this on the main article.
Space Drake: I am considering deleting this line:
  • The differences are more akin to the difference between a streamlined theatrical release and an extended director's cut. The ecological angle remained in place but was given less screen time and more hinted at than directly stated, the Giant Warrior and the destruction of the old world was woven into an analogue for nuclear war, and the original names were changed to more Tolkien-esque fantasy names, but beyond that the differences were minor.

... because, no, "Warriors of the Wind" isn't a "streamlined theatrical release", every critic on the planet considers it to be an absolute hacking apart of a classic movie. Is there any objection to the deletion?

Dark Sasami: This name is really, really, really hard to remember, and the article takes a lot of searching to find.

Seth: Set up a redirect with a more memorable name and use that as a search? I couldn't think of another name. Except maybe Butcherd Show or Butchered Anime something along those lines.

Morgan Wick: Or search for a term that you know links to it, like Adaptation Decay.

Dark Sasami: Sure, we can do that, but are we really building a reference database for people who already know what's in it?

Looney Toons: I think I can guarantee that any randomly selected trope here is going to be hard for someone to remember. There have been and will continue to be any number that I have to search for because I know they exist but I can't remember their names. Does this mean I should insist that each one of them be renamed to something I find more memorable? Look. "Macekre" has history and weight behind it. I did not coin the term; it existed before I wrote this page. All I did was, simply, define it here. If you want to tell anime fans "Look, I can't remember your jargon, so I'm going to make up new jargon for you that's easier for me to remember", go right ahead, but it seems to me a little arrogant. When there's a fan-created term already in existence, we should use that term in preference to creating one of our own.

osh: My stance on using quirky if potentially excluding fan jargon is to see if the first page of google hits all explains or uses it the same way.

Lale: "are we really building a reference database for people who already know what's in it?" If it were a reference database on American history or equatorial weather patterns or Egyptian mythology, no. But this is a database of fun but trivial facts that are only useful for fun and useless in real life.
Macekre is cool; I've forgotten trope names plenty of times but always find them again. Let's not spoil something in the name of 100% research efficiency. It's just a media tropes catalogue. It's fun this way!

Inyssius: Holy run-on sentences, Batman! I'd just change it, but I'm leery of changing articles that I don't know anything about.

Looney Toons: I think I identified the sentence you mean, and I did a little editing. It might be a bit easier to read now.

Shale: I went through the list of examples and changed things around some to make this more of a trope page and less of a list of reasons why Carl Macek is stupid.

Looney Toons: I put a lot of them back in. Macek is called the Antichrist by a large number of anime fans, and for good reason. We're not going to whitewash the horrible, xenophobic, profit-driven hack jobs he did.

osh: Fans also like the terms 'Antichrist', 'butcher' and 'rape' when talking about shows they like. It doesn't mean it doesn't sound silly. It seems a tricky balance; there's more than a few entries that have a huge undercurrent of hyperbolic fangry that makes them kind of embarrassing to read or just plain sucks the fun out what could be an amusing criticism.

Ununnilium: Yeah. Fandom Is Serious Buisness, and all.

osh: Also, IIRC the infamous Ranma game redo was just because they wanted to use that game's engine. As the show hadn't become popular in the states yet there was no point in making a show-based translation of it.

Jimmy: Macek's dubs are "horrible, xenophobic, and profit-driven?" Sorry but that's an entirely one-sided look at things. Macek was a fan, and tried to keep as much of the original as possible. The Robotech "combining three shows into one" situation happened because of Executive Meddling from Harmony Gold, and (despite what the article says) I can't remember another show under Macek's hand that received similar treatment. Indeed he started Streamline Productions so he wouldn't have to Macekre shows for HG anymore. People have gotten Macek confused with Al Kahn and I'm a little tired of it.

Eric Thompson famously created the English-language narration for The Magic Roundabout, based on the visuals and entirely disregarding Serge Danot's French scripts.
Sean Tucker: Is it worth mentioning that there are quite a few people who like Macek's work? I'm actually one of those; I like Robotech as much as Macross, although I haven't seen any of the other anime series Robotech was a "Macekre" of. Also, assuming he was behind the Streamline dub of Akira (which I didn't know until reading the article), he didn't do THAT bad of a job. The original plot was pretty much intact, even if a lot of the dialogue was different.
Fly: I hate the NES version of Metal Gear as much as any true fan, but that doesn't mean the entry here is even remotely correct. 'Vermon Ca Taffy' was only mentioned in the manual, I seem to remember. Same with 'Higharolla Kockamamie'. (Augh). The actual story in the game was pretty much the same. I still have absolutely no idea why they made the changes they did - probably to lower the difficulty level.
Man Called True: King Kong vs. Godzilla being edited so King Kong wins in America is an urban legend without substance. The only difference between English and Japanese versions is that, due to a dubbing error, Godzilla's final roar is missing. Ever since, people have thought more was taken out.

arromdee: There are lots of differences between English and Japanese versions and "Macekre" is a fair description. Though the ending indeed wasn't changed.
gumby_jd: I'm right now watching Robotech, the original Macekre, and am finding myself surprised at how many things survived unedited that would definitely be surgically removed or altered with a rusty, blunt kitchen knife - people smoking (including, in episode 32, a Zentraedi bumming a light from a Veritech and, after taking a drag, commenting "You Micronians live well."), miscellaneous death (such as, during Dolza's attack, a little blonde girl being disintegrated (not instantly disappearing, but burnt away by the blast's inferno) while picking flowers), nudity (episode 17 flashes back to Rick Hunter's & Minmei's time trapped below decks of the SDF-1 and we get an uncensored view of Minmei from behind while she's showering - no extra steam or anything; the ep flashed back to *was* censored in the dub, though, I think), and so on...

  • Oh, and to top it off, you never have enough money for anything in the US version, because they reduced the encounter rate to one third the JP, and tripled the money and EXP gains. Despite sounding like it would, this doesn't lead to you having the same amount of money in both versions, and armors and weapons that were merely "very expensive" in the JP version are totally unobtainable in the US.

Huh? How is this possible? 1/3 the encounters with 3 times the experience and money each should lead to the same amount of money. How can it be otherwise?

Masami Phoenix: I'm not going to remove anything because I'm not 100% sure about this, but I'm pretty sure that Golion and Dairugger XV actually WERE in the same universe in their original forms (they were pitched along with a third robot Albegaz.) They even look the same, are colored the same, and both form very similar swords. Anybody have anything concrete one way or the other?

Roger: Possibly a reverse instance: The Green Hornet show was called The Kato Show when it was exported to Hong Kong. Unfortunately I've been unable to confirm that the translation/dubbing significantly changed the Kato-Hornet relationship, but it certainly sounds plausible.

arromdee: Does anyone know if the PS 1 game Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure was a gameplay Macekre? The game is easy. Ridiculously, ridiculously, easy. It also has an easy mode which, as far as I can figure, does nothing, and this strongly suggests that someone fouled up the port. Some people have suggested that it's easy because it's obviously supposed to be a kids' game, but I don't buy that; La Pucelle and Disgaea have equally cute character designs but certainly don't have kid game levels of difficulty.

Nezumi: To my knowledge, no. It's because it was specifically marketed towards girls, and that's what tends to happen to such games in Japan; in America, games for girls suck, in Japan, they're ridiculously easy.
Looney Toons: Removed this

  • As I recall that version was planned as a "remake" or "reimagining" long after the DiC version was produced.

as natter, and because it's documented — hell, stated right in the linked video — that the Saban "attempt" predated the DiC license.

Hespers: Actually the first three Japanese Digimon movies were released theatrically, usually as a double feature with another Toei movie. Also, Saban had nothing to do with the Toon Makers version of Sailor Moon, BTW. They had their own re-imagining of the franchise, but the live action stuff was all Toon Makers' idea. This was correct on the page, just an FYI.

arromdee: I hate to get all Wikipedia on you, but does anyone have a source for this?

  • When a new series was proposed nearly a decade later, the team behind it had to personally meet with the people behind Kamen Rider and answer questions on the legacy and meaning of the thirty-six year old franchise to make sure they wouldn't screw it up.

I'd think I'd have heard about this on R5 Central or something if this was true. I can't find a reference to this through Google.

fleb: I re-arranged the media so that anime and video games, being spectacularly lengthy, are listed last, so that people can get a better overview reading down from the top.

Looney Toons: Snipped this from the 4Kids example to prevent the birth of a flame war:

  • The first season of Pokemon wasn't so bad. At the beginning of the Jotho arc, things started going downhill...
    • What the hell is that supposed to mean? Their First movie dub is one of, if not the most infamous case of Macekre in the entire series.

If you want to argue, guys, do it here.

Cliché: Yeah, you're right. I just get the impression no one ever uses the talk page, so I put it there because I wanted clarification about how the former statement was relevant to the article.
That Other 1 Dude: Stop adding Dragon Quest IV. I don't care how much you hate the accents or wanted paty talk. That's not enough to qualify as a Macekre (especially since party talk was only added in the remake). Yes, the accents weren't all based off of ones in the original language, they were just there to provide some difference between the countries. Your also basically saying it qualifies as a Macekre because it's "a failed attempt at a woolseyism". First, that is massively debatable, second something only qualifies as a Macekre if it has a large number of changes that effect the story, not something as superficial as accents. You may think that it's a bad localization, but objectively speaking this does not and cannot qualify as a Macekre.

Nezumi: a) I didn't say it was because it was a failed Woolseyism that it was a Macekre, just that they were obviously trying for one, and failed.

b) If it has to be a significant change to the story, then a lot of things on the page aren't Macekres. Persona is a good example. The storyline is the same, it's just heavily Americanized and a side quest was dropped. Are you honestly going to tell me that Persona wasn't Macekred? Because that's hard to believe, and will probably piss off most of the Mega Ten fans on TV Tropes.

That Other 1 Dude: For the sake of this page "plot changes" includes heavy censorship (especially of death). Anyway, it appears that Persona didn't just alter names and the way someone talks, but also changed the characters themselves and went as far as changing their race/nationality.

Technically speaking that still might not be a Macekre but a rather bad case of Americanitis since it may or may not have affected the plot. You should probably ask someone that actually played and can speak civily about what was changed without impulsively start ranting at the very notion that it's not a "Macekre".

Also not that Tropes Are Not Bad: a localization not counting as a Macekre doesn't mean it's not bad and being a Macekre doesn't automatically make something bad. The annoying thing is that a Woolseyism is entirely subjective: both Samurai Pizza Cats and The Magic Roundabout are listed under "Macekre" (they have no basis on the original story, which the writers didn't even have translated for them), "Woolseyism" (they're considered better written than the original), and "Gag Dub" (the writing has no basis on the original, but is written in a humorous way, even though they were both comedies in the first place).

Still, Dragon Quest IV could only possibly count based on the removal of a game feature, definitely not because of a choice in Accent Adaptation (there were some accents in the original) you don't find to be good. That's simply far to minor, even if you do think that makes it hard to find out what some of them are saying. Said game feature removal is still nothing compared to the other "gameplay macekres" listed as it's mostly just a cosmetic feature (on a related note, doesn't Dummied Out count things removed in localization?)

Nezumi: a) As defined in the entry, Macekre is "The act of editing or altering scripts during the translation process in order to render them allegedly more 'accessible' to a new audience." The first time you removed it, I considered that it might not qualify... but I checked the definition, and by the definition TV Tropes uses, it is a Macekre. Editing the script to add Fantasy Counterpart Cultures that didn't exist in the JP version is a Macekre by that definition. Not a huge one, but still a Macekre. And, not having played the game, you may not realize that this goes beyond Accent Adaptation. This isn't just about equating the Japanese accents with ones Americans would recognize. This is about fabricating Fantasy Counterpart Cultures out of whole cloth. m/Santeem, a country that was originally just another of the Western medieval kingdoms of Dragon Quest, is now suddenly named Zamoksva, with everyone speaking English with badly-done, near-incomprehensible Eastern European accents, and the Rebellious Princess who's the lead character of Chapter 2 now being a Tsarevna. That goes a fair bit beyond Accent Adaptation.

b) Yes, but Dummied Out quite specifically only covers things that have some trace of their existence still left in the game code, and Square Enix removed absolutely everything relating to the Party Conversations.

That Other 1 Dude: There is no such thing as a "small" Macekre, and the necessity for it to make a game more accessible seems pretty presumtious. Anyway, I know that it's not always Accent Adaptation, and probably only has a small basis on some of the original. Think of this: the Paper Mario games translation are listed under Woolseyism noting that is completely replaces parts of the original script. So objectively speaking that would make the translation of the Paper Mario series a Macekre. And for that matter about half the crap listed under Woolseyism (including Final Fantasy VI). The problem is partially that somethings are randomly expected to be more faithful than others. For instance, people always complain when names are changed in anime dubs, but rarely when they're change in video games (people go insane about Zoro becoming Zolo, but no one ever calls a Goomba a Kuriboh). The same things goes for scripts. Really, I can guarantee you that no one would care about changes in the translation for the DS version of Dragon Quest IV if they weren't also changes from the previous translation. Yes, the articles really need rewrites/reorganization like with all the Mary Sue pages. Also, we need more than two people talking about this. Let's just be honest completely honest: there is absolutely no formal or subjective definition of a Macekre and whether or not a localisation is listed here verges entirely on whether or not people likes it.

arromdee: I haven't heard a whole lot of people seriously complaining about name changes in Pokemon anime. And there are plenty of anime series which have name changes and are not called Macekres; I've never yet heard of anyone call Ronin Warriors one, for instance.
Prfnoff: Nuked most of the "gameplay Macekre" section, as it mostly fits under Difficulty by Region. Some of the examples were moved to the latter trope. Here's the section as it was:
  • Due to their uniquely interactive nature, video games can suffer a gameplay, rather than story Macekre. Although ones where the game is made easier are most publicized, ones that make the game harder tend to actually be far, far worse.
    • The US version of 7th Saga is legendary for being obscenely hard and featuring insane level-grinding. The JP version wasn't nearly as bad — they reduced the average stat gains per level for player characters in the US. This also added an Unwinnable situation, as they didn't tone down the stat gains your rivals get as bosses based on your level, so leveling up too much can literally make them too powerful to beat.
      • There's a loophole you can take advantage of here. Your rivals' stats are based only on your main character's level. Therefore, you can get around their stat gains by only leveling your companion and making him or her fight the rivals instead.
    • Contra: Hard Corps originally, and unusually for the series, had a 3-hit life bar in the JP version. To bring it in line with the other games, for the US, they removed this, but changed nothing else. The already very difficult game is nearly impossible to beat in its US version because of this.
      • The European localization of Hard Corps is a more straight example of a Macekre. Not only did it replace all of the humanoid character with robots, it also turned the plot of the game into a barely coherent mess, by replacing references to the enemy being a terrorist organization with some nonsense about "Alien Rebels", as well as downplaying the role of a character so he was no longer a traitor.
    • In the Japanese version of Castlevania III, known as Akumajou Densetsu, different enemies deal different amounts of damage, and that damage is fixed from stage to stage; Goddamned Bats will deal the same damage whether you're on Block 1 or Block 9. In the North American version, this is gone, and replaced with the more simple damage mechanic of the original Castlevania; that is, all enemies take off the same amount of damage, and damage taken goes up with later levels. On top of that, because the North American version lacks a special chip that gave the Japanese version an enhanced soundtrack, the soundtrack in this version has reduced quality. Listen to this clip, followed by this one.
    • The American Version of Devil May Cry 3 was considered very hard and unforgiving to most people who played. Small wonder, as the Japanese Hard mode became the American Normal mode! The Special Edition release fixed that, but kept the sliding scale of difficulty by adding Very Hard mode before Dante Must Die.
    • The American version of Streets of Rage 3 undergoes both gameplay and story Macekres. The American version's Easy mode is the Japanese version's Normal mode, American Normal is Japanese Hard, and so on. On top of that, enemies in the American version do more damage at higher difficulties. Also, the main characters get recolored for the purpose of having "gender-neutral" colors, female enemies have more clothing, and the story is completely rewritten, changing the plot from one revolving around nuclear weapons to one about robotic duplicates of city officials.
    • Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde for the NES had one of its two methods of healing removed, as it was an apparent prostitution reference — you'd enter a house with a woman in the window, and receive some coins in addition to healing. Unlike the above examples, this game has few redeeming qualities, and being made considerably less beatable didn't help at all.
    • Working Designs, ironically enough, botched a few games they tried altering during localization. The first Exile game had been criticized as "too hard" in Japan, so they tried toning it down a little... making the game a cakewalk in the process. The reverse happened with its sequel, where it was basically made pretty close to unwinnable. Lunar: Eternal Blue had a save system that forced the use of the Skill Point equivalent added, which was obtrusive in that it basically turned saving your game into a luxury. Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete had one puzzle translated so poorly that they had to publish the solution to it on the website. Finally, there was Silhouette Mirage... where to even begin? They made all the best items way too expensive, turned Spirit into a consumable resource, and redesigned whole branches of levels.
      • In spite of their many screw ups, Working Designs still introduced many positive changes in their modification of games. The removal of a number of Giant Space Flea from Nowhere from the Lunar series is an example.
      • There's still a lot of Internet Backdraft related to Working Designs about whether or not their scripts fall under this or Woolseyism. They were notorious for slipping in an ungodly amount of pop culture references, as well as playing fast and loose with the dialogue in the games, which made keeping track of changes in the various Lunar ports difficult just because the player never knew whether a change was added for the new version or just added to the English version. On the other hand, this notoriety is also what made their games appealing. The Clinton joke in the original Lunar: Eternal Blue is legendary, to the point where many mourned its loss when the PS 1 version came out and they had updated it to something more relevant.
    • Due to sensitivities towards Nazis in the media in their countries, German and French versions of the game I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream have the character Nimdok and his entire chapter in the game removed. This makes the game's final chapter where all the characters are necessary unwinnable.
    • Because of the series' controversial nature, Fire Emblem Path of Radiance's Harder Than Hard Maniac mode was removed and replaced with EASY MODE. Then again, the 255% crit chance forge bug was removed, and upper-tier enemies can crit a lot more.
      • Mostly averted in the tenth game, though the requirement to have a Master Crown to promote Tier 2 characters was lifted. And don't forget the addition of the controversial "battle saves".
    • Hm, I wonder what would happen if the already Nintendo Hard Ninja Gaiden III did not allow American players to use passwords to continue like in the original and gave the player limited continues on top of Fake Difficulty?
    • In the US version of The Adventures of Bayou Billy, anything in the driving segments kills you in one hit. The Japanese version just takes a chunk of life away. And this is one example.

HeartBurn Kid: Editing out some stuff that doesn't fit the definition of Macekre (some Natter, some not, all unfitting):

  • (Persona) Oh, and to top it off, you never have enough money for anything in the US version, because they reduced the encounter rate to one third the JP, and tripled the money and EXP gains. Despite sounding like it would, this doesn't lead to you having the same amount of money in both versions, and armors and weapons that were merely "very expensive" in the JP version are totally unobtainable in the US.

  • Actually, the reason for the cut down release of Ace Combat 3 was mostly financial, translating all of the content would have been more expensive than they expected to make by releasing it, so they did a cheap version.
    • That does not excuse the removal of (competent) wingmen and the mission tree. If they had been financial problems, then they shouldn't have done this in the first place.
    • No, the real reason for the Ace Combat 3 cutdown was because the Japanese fanbase didn't like the anime cutscenes (considering that said fanbase births many an anime), according to this review on GameFAQs:

  • Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde for the NES had one of its two methods of healing removed, as it was an apparent prostitution reference — you'd enter a house with a woman in the window, and receive some coins in addition to healing. This game has few redeeming qualities, and being made considerably less beatable didn't help at all.

  • Due to sensitivities towards Nazis in the media in their countries, German and French versions of the game I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream have the character Nimdok and his entire chapter in the game removed. This makes the game's final chapter where all the characters are necessary unwinnable.

  • All the children in Fallout were removed from the game for its European release. Well, not quite — their graphics were removed, so if you click in the right location you'll find yourself chatting with a patch of empty air.

  • Star Fox Assault has some quite notable differences in the briefing videos, especially for Krystal.

  • The US version of Konami's Thundercross had all the JP version's special weapons removed, as well as the autofire of the vulcan cannon, and replaced with lame smartbombs called "Lil' Babies". On top of that, they rearranged the levels in a terrible way. What band of blind idiots was assigned to localize this?

  • Super Double Dragon was not quite a disaster, but very unfinished-feeling due to being rushed out the door before the more complete Japanese version, Return of Double Dragon, which had different and better music(the Double Dragon Theme and City Slum musics are played where they're supposed to be), a longer and harder final mission, more powerful super-moves(the cyclone kick juggles enemies instead of just knocking them down), better-implemented weapon physics(eg. you can re-catch boomerangs), and finally an adjustable difficulty level.

  • Fans of Konami's Rhythm Games were excited over Beat'n Groovy, an American, Xbox Live Arcade version of the almost-entirely Japan-only Pop'n Music series. But, when the game was released, it turned out to be a complete pile of crap, for a number of reasons: the game is 5-button only (due to the game using the Xbox 360 controller instead of a proprietary one like the PS2 installations of Pop'n), the controls translate poorly to the 360 con (the shoddy 360 D-pad does not help at all), there are only 9 songs, with the hardest song still being very easy compared to what the Japanese installations have to offer, the lively, colorful characters get replaced with more generic ones, and the online features are poorly implemented. Pop'n fans and non-fans alike agree that this game is probably on par with Yaris for the title of worst XBLA game ever.
    • Your Mileage May Vary on the controls translating poorly; they're set up nearly identically to how the PS2 version plays without the custom controller. Then again, spot on about the 360's atrocious D-pad being the biggest hindrance. If you can find an alternate controller, it removes the worst technical problem— but there's only so much a new pad can do...

  • Rhapsody DS was going to be a fairly big deal for fans of the original; NIS America promised new content in the previews and on the back of the case. Turns out that because they couldn't get the original voice actors back, the new content would have been inconsistent with the rest of the game... so they instead cut out all of the songs' English vocals, and then cut the extra content anyway. Literally every vocal clip was eliminated, including one of the funniest gags in the game (the "Old Maid!" bit). Fans were not pleased.

That Other 1 Dude: Let's actually talk about this:
  • Not too many people know that, but the original version of Groove Adventure Rave (Rave Master) doesn't suck. The dub failed in everything possible: for starters, the dub script is really bad, and it overwhelms Digimon in terms of Lull Destruction. The dub background music, composed by Glenn Scott Lacey, is a bland mix of random orchestral and guitar sounds that makes 4Kids' composers geniuses by comparison. The content is censored by all means — alcohol becomes Cola, and, most egregiously, in the repeated instances of Casinos they were renamed "Arcades", although being pretty obviously Casinos. The content is not only censored, but censored in the most ridiculous way — in one of the first episodes, a villain kills one of his henchmen to show how evil he is. In the dub, after slashing the mook in the back, the villain exclaims, loud and clear: "Don't worry, I didn't hit his vital spots!", and until the end of the episode, the dub added random shots of the mook's face to assure us viewers that he was still alive.

OK, you're calling it a Macekre on three grounds
  1. The scripts suck
  2. It's a case of Never Say "Die"
  3. There's different music
  4. There's Lull Destruction

OK, first of all let's not have the paragraph turn into an enormous rant that just becomes "my example is worse that your's". Besides the music and what you are claiming are bad dialogue, this seems more like Bowdlerised than anything else.
OK from now on, we have to write why an anime is a Macekre in the Anime's page description.
Erm... was there an actual consensus or discussion on removing the examples from Macekre? I didn't see one, but I don't follow the wiki that closely. I don't mind them being removed or relocated to somewhere more appropriate... but I do mind unilateral action on this level.

Starscream: someone is on an anti-fun crusade and is trying to turn us into Wikipedia-lite

Civanfan: Agreed. As far as I can tell, I don't see anything where it was discussed. I do see that an attempt to restore the examples was nuked by the same person who seems to have decided to remove them all by his lonesome, however. Does anybody agree that it should be restored?

Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: I don't, though I would've a year ago. It appears that Macekre is a darkly-tinged word (it is supposed to evoke "massacre.") The objective substance of Macekre - that is, what a Macekre is - has been moved to Cut-and-Paste Translation; the current Macekre article is about the anime communities' hatred of such translations. This has turned Macekre into a Useful Notes - type of article, and that sort of article doesn't need examples. I still feel sad about it, though, and suspect that a lot of trope lists are gonna have to be rewritten sooner or later.

Civanfan: Although part of me sees the Cut-and-Paste Translation page as unnecessary, I guess I see the reasoning behind a more neutral viewpoint, and I'm glad that the examples were relocated rather than wiped out. Still, I think I ought to add a note on the Macekre page about just where all the examples that were there went. Embarrassingly enough, I skimmed over the sentence at the top without even noticing the link to Cut-and-Paste Translation.
Here's LE Xicon 712's definition of a Macekre:

  • First off, a Macekre is an Anime translated and edited for a foreign market. It is named such because Carl Macek took Japanese animation and edited it for American audiences. Also, the translations were marketed to little kids, because they believe all animation is for little kids. A translation of any other foreign medium (including Tokusatsu, despite it's Japanese roots) is a Cut-and-Paste Translation. The term Macekre is only applied to anime.
  • These are the signs of a Macekre:
    • The edited show is broadcast to a different demographic that the original version wasn't intended for (like showing Shonen with blood on Saturday morning cartoons)
    • The show's plot is edited to make it more marketable and kid-friendly.
    • There are cultural edits to make the show more culturably adjustable. For example:
      • Character's names are changed to familiar sounding names. Names can also be changed if their names are too risque-sounding.
      • Character's nationalities are changed (sometimes to make the show more diverse).
      • The setting may be changed (usually from Japan to America), or the setting is never mentioned if it's too Japanese. If the theme is supposed to be exotic, it stays the same.
      • Now here's my opinion on text edits: Changing the text to a legible font is alright if there is a letter or important written message involved, but if the text is pointlessly removed (like if it was there for decoration), it's not alright. Al Kahn is infamous for removing all legible and foreign letters, because he believes children don't like to read anymore.
    • Scenes are edited to hide violence or adult content.
    • Scenes are rearranged from the original to cover up edited scenes.
    • Genders are changed to hide homosexuality and sometimes just so little kids aren't confused on what gender that person is.
    • Episode order is changed (but this is more due to Executive Meddling), or episodes are removed completely (too controversial for kids or too much stuff to edit).
    • And the most important sign, there are many Plot Holes and Inconsistencies due to editing.

In other words, the anime's foreign adaptation does not portray the same things that the original did.