Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Working Title: Oh, like you\'d really kill the LCP: From YKTTW
The Stray: I'm in favor of an Example Sectionectomy, but I, too, feel the trope is a valid reader/viewer response.

Earnest: Well, I'll say this in favor of not Cut Listing the trope. I don't think it's a subtrope or specific form of The Un-Twist, which is "The "too obvious" explanation turns out to be right." I'd almost say it's like comparing apples and oranges. Their only point of similarity is that the "obvious" happens in both. While in LYWRDI (heh, that is not a pretty acronym) it's obvious to the genre savvy that a given character facing death is unlikely to die, it's the fulfillment of this expectation that further validates the viewer expectation/reaction. If LYWRDI were to be a subtrope of the untwist, wouldn't the threatened character actually die?

I admit I may have a wrong understanding of the untwist, it is a much deeper trope than it first lets on. That said, I think this is a legitimate viewer reaction.

Prfnoff: I'd support an Example Sectionectomy, but not cutting (this phrase and variations are used by fans often enough). Too many of the non-aversions fit under Disney Death and Our Hero Is Dead.

thatother1dude: The Un-Twist is more or less "the thing that seems obvious actually happens" (or "I Knew It!, but used as a complaint") and it counts for any plot twist someone predicts, which includes characters not dying. There's always going to be someone who thinks a character survived an apparent death, so at least some people will always be right. The issue with both articles is that the standards for "obvious" is something you should never assume someone else agrees with you one. Going through this, I have to say quite a few of these examples were people who were a minority, or even just full of crap themselves. And as prfnoff said, we have other tropes for fake death which are pretty much the same except without the "but it was obvious this would happen" addendum. However, I'm fine with just the Example Sectionectomy though, as like The Un-Twist it can still maintain functionality as a Pot Hole.

Charred Knight: Cut it, this is just as bad as The Un-Twist. "I KNEW IT! I KNEW IT ALL ALONG! LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT HOW AWESOME I AM!". Also a ton of examples are flat out wrong. I mean Nunnaly? Most people thought Nunnaly was dead.
Fanra: It's not the same but do we have something where the Protagonist is threatened in the media and you know he can't die, at least not until the end, if at all.

Earnest: Threatened how? As in "the trailer has him die/near death"? Also, why was the Kingdom Hearts example cut?
Bob: I don't think that the The Dark Knight is an example. All the scenes suggested are incredibly tense and could have gone either way and saying "don't be stupid, of course they weren't going to do it" reeks of smug superiority.

In fact, the whole article is like that. Except for all the "They really did it" examples. I think the article needs cleanup and a rewrite.

Danel: Yeah, I totally agree - this is a pretty awful trope. I'm not sure why it's here - it appears to be a mix of smug superiority and "Wow, this show is awesome, Anyone Can Die"...

Spectrum: I think it's a good trope. I for one have Seen It a Million Times, so I find it noteworthy. It's already tagged as "subjective", so what do you expect?
Cambdoranononononono: The Monstrous Regiment example, because unless it's about something I forgot other than everyone being a girl, it's not an example of this trope. I get the impression that it's a case where the phrase in the title could apply but the actual trope does not.

Deadpool Fan: Based on recent information, I have added an extra tid bit to the Batman section. Honestly, I wonder why some people take so long to keep up with a DC event's finale.

Does the Doctor Who episode 'The Doctor's Daughter' count? After the general shoots Jenny dead, the Doctor gets angry and puts a gun to the general's head. The 'yeah right' in this case came not from the writer's willingness (or lack thereof) to go through with it, but from the BBC's ability to show it.
Cambdoranononononono: Removing the second Tales of Symphonia example. I think perhaps it's a sign of a flaw in the trope description. It technically might fit the description, but for it to work we would have to accept any time a major character is placed in danger, which, in an action-oriented game/show/movie/book/etc., is pretty much constantly. (Every time someone gets into a fight, goes to jail, put into an 'inescapable' death trap.) Any thoughts on that? We could leave all the examples like this in and chalk it up to subjectivity (again), but that renders the trope itself nearly meaningless. (Hey, remember that time when someone tried to kill Batman, but failed?)
  • Also earlier in the game, when Raine and Genis are discovered as half-elves by soldiers and taken off to be executed. Never mind that they're the only healer and magic-user you have, and so there's no way they'll actually die.

Luc: Given that consensus was to nuke the examples section from orbit, I have done so.
  • I understand clear-cutting examples if they have grown wild and wrong or whatever, but why "no examples please?" Surely some accurate seed examples at least would help generate proper examples and be helpful to people stumbling across the trope.