Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Working Title: Grappling Hook Pistol Expansion: From YKTTW

Rissa: After it got a Made of Win I had a go at reorganising the categories to fit the timing of the Batman Running Gag. This is why they're not in alphabetical order now.

fleb: Good one. I might tweak it a little.

Japanese Teeth: ARG. Caphi removed the Batman joke. If I remember correctly a number of people contributed too it, and I'm pretty sure it got a number of Made of Win points. Is there any way of just reverting the page without having to edit each line individually? *EDIT* I put the joke back.

Mr Death: Can I just add a "Screw you, Caphi" to this? I contributed to the joke a couple of times, and I'm a little pissed someone just went ahead and blanded up the page for no gorram reason. This whole place is just for fun, and the running gags are a part of that.

And as a sidenote, I totally didn't realize when I added it that the last listing (with a link to every incarnation of the Bat) was in chronological order.

[Later Edit]: And he did it again! Keep your grubby mitts off the page, Caphi. Take your no-fun BS over to Wikipedia.

Caphi: Apparently I missed the discussion about cluttering up the page with gratuitous Department of Redundancy Department links being inherently funny. I remember doing this dance with the Gurren-Lagann fanboys on This Is a Drill too, for that matter. Repetition isn't a punchline, and Department of Redundancy Department doesn't justify itself by Rule of Funny in itself. In other words, you have no other joke. It's sad.

Besides, since when was "grappling hook" any more synonymous with Batman than the utility belt, the Batmobile, gay jokes, or Bat Shark/Female Villain Repellent, anyway?

Mr Death: As I mentioned in the latest edit, having them on all the categories is the point of the joke. If you take half of them away (and they're as legitimate as any of the others if they exist), then that ruins the joke. If you had a joke that ran on the Rule of Three, and you took out the second one, that would ruin it. Why are you making such a stink about something that would (and does) pass unnoticed on other pages? Should we go to Da Editor and arbitrarily take out half the entries on Perry White too?

The rule of the wiki seems to be based on consensus. We've got at least two people here who like the joke (not counting the others who've contributed to it over time), and one person who wants to nix it because s/he (just covering my bases) doesn't like it.

Caphi: I know it's on other pages. I'll get to those. This is not my first time protesting a "running gag" - I fixed similar wankery over Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann on This Is a Drill a while ago - but I haven't the time to do multiple at once.

Note the quotes; it's not a gag. A running gag is not based merely on repetition, but on timing and expectations. Tell a joke a few times. Leave it. When it's forgotten, bring it back. Then leave it. Bring it back with a clever twist. Establish expectations, then subvert them at the proper time and leave the viewer laughing. But repetition alone constitutes an annoyance, not a punchline. You don't have anything that can be called a "joke".

And uh, I like how I've been strawmanned into a person who "arbitrarily" nixes entries. As I've explained, I left in entries that have something to say in themselves, and removed entries with no content other than MOAR BATMAN. If I actually had my way, Batman would be occupying his proper place in the Comic Books heading. But apparently the Caphi that exists in your head wanders the wiki, cutting out swaths of text out of sheer bloody-mindedness.

Eponymous Kid: Am I the only one who's actually with Caphi here? Look, guys, just because "lol Made Of Win" doesn't mean it's the best thing evar that should never ever be changed. Lots of MO Ws actually only called attention to obvious flaws in reasoning/natter, which were then summarily removed on the grounds of "We are not Wikipedia, but we're also not fucking retarded." And note how you're only getting upset because it was a "joke" that you yourselves contributed to(even though anybody could've done it because it's the same fucking sentences over and over). Get over yourselves. Caphi's trying to make the entry better and less annoying. it's not more bland and it certainly isn't fun-draining (it's kind of a mundane topic, to tell the truth, it's stupid to expect amusement from... grappling hooks).

Caphi: Incidentally, insofar as there's a "joke" here, the punchline is basically "hay look, Batman has had some adaptations". SUCH LULZ. Normally, if any of the adaptations have a twist on the trope or something interesting to say, we put them under the original. I'm already being too soft. P.S. Thanks for bringing Da Editor to my attention, it's in serious need of fixing. I'll get to it as soon as this crap ends.

Mr Death: I wasn't just mad because I contributed. The first edit removed all of them with the only reason given being "No." which came off to me as very condescending, like, "No, don't be so goddamn stupid." If something I and others have enjoyed is going to be yanked out, I'd expect more reason offered than a single word that implies that its removal should be entirely obvious. As to the "arbitrarily" note, I said that because you took out ones seemingly at random as far as I could tell. They're legitimate examples, insofar as they all use the device the page is about, and I think the fact there's a Batman Manga, or that JL Heroes has him use it differently is a novel use.

To explain the "fun draining," that was a reaction to the first edit, which to me came off as someone seeing that there was a joke, saying, "No, this cannot be allowed," and nixing the whole thing. Refine the joke, work with us, sure, but your first step was to unilaterally come in and chuck something that had been constructed by several tropers with no explanation, so all we were left with was an implied holier-than-thou attitude to it.

Caphi: Have you not been listening? I didn't see a joke and nix it. I saw an unfunny, annoying noise cluttering up the wiki, and nixed it. You don't HAVE A JOKE. You have repetition. BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN does not constitute a running gag in exactly the same way that "I know a song that gets on everybody's nerves" does not constitute a running gag. Pointing out that Batman has been adapted into a film series, a TV series, and yes, even a manga doesn't qualify as a joke, either. It qualifies as a "no kidding", and you do not need to co-opt an entire page for the purpose of pointing out the many incarnations of Batman. We know. Stop being annoying.

And speaking of unfunny things, I find it ironic that all the links are (of course!) to Overused Running Gag, which is about gags that have run their due course, but are still used anyway because the writers/editors are wanking. In short, it's one of those exceptions to Tropes Are Not Bad, and to lampshade hang it also does not qualify as a punchline.

In case you missed it, I'm not trying to turn a funny page boring. That's not what I do. I'm trying to turn a stupid page readable.

Mr Death: I was just explaining my original reaction. I'll concede for the sake of this not going on forever, but I have to ask, was it that distracting to have Batman in every category? Was it really making the page unreadable? Sure, it wasn't laugh-out-loud funny, but was it such a horrible thing that it had to be excised and made into a big deal?

Caphi: Ask yourselves that question first. There was some pretty strong language (for the PG crowd, anyway) tossed at me before I even came to the discussion page.

Latw PIAT: Well I think it's funny, many of those are nontheless legitimate examples and should therefore not have been deleted either way, and whether people were angry at you and used bad language really has no bearing on whether we should run the joke.

Broken Chaos: Hey, guys - I think Batman used one of these. Maybe we should add him...

Real Slim Shadowen: I added him in ways that were more than just "Batman", and only in those categories where I was aware of the media in question. (I assume Batman has featured in some webcomics, but aside from "MY PARENTS ARE DEAAAAAAAAAAAAD" I can't remember any specific examples. Simlarly, I'm quite certain there has been Batmanime aside from Gotham Knight, which I didn't add because I'm not quite sure if it counted.)