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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

If God Mode Sue is thought of as a bad trope that is highly subjective, used only to bash characters you don't like, how about removing examples from the page? That way the fanboys will not see the object of their desire as being villified and trolls cannot post here to get their hate on.

If no one objects then I will go ahead and delete the examples, given how claiming someone a God Mode Sue leads to flame\edit warz.

Decided to try and nip this problem in the bud and delete the examples. Please raise it here first if you want them back.

Can something be done about the edit Nazi who keeps coming in and wiping stuff they don't like?

Peteman: I agree with the "edit Nazi". People need to explain why "X" is a God-Mode Sue.

Even when you put up solid examples the bwaaing starts up over it not being good enough and the work's deleted.

  • Unknown Troper: As I'm apparently the "edit nazi" here, let me explain myself. Mary Sue is a Bad Writing Trope. As such, it is perilously easy and perilously tempting to add a character you don't like. Combine this with the fact that "Mary Sue" had been flanderized so horribly, and there's little to stop anyone from coming in and just listing a character they don't like. Therefore, sufficient justification should be required, especially since we're dealing with a trope that can be so readily used to bash characters. TV Tropes is not a place to bash characters, and requiring a strong justification keeps pointless bashing to a minimum.
    • I would contest i's a bad thing for a character to be regarded as a Sue. Case in point with Kim Possible...I am a huge Kim Possible fan, seriouly. Yet er characteristics scream Sue. In no way am I bashing the character in doing this. In point of fact I would counterclaim that caling a character you do not like a Sue is a bad writing trope rather than the trope itself.
  • Also, again, Mary Sue is a Subjective Trope. People are free to contest and remove a character being added here, if they provide sufficient reasoning. that's what the discussion page is for.
    • IF they provide sufficient reasoning. Sure, but examples have been deleted without any such justification. If you have sufficint reasoning to have an entry removed, aside from 'baaaaaaw a character I like is on here, I need a waaaaaahbulance' then give such justification. To do any less is unprofessional and lazy
      • Black King: I was the one who removed the Lara Croft and Kim possible Examples. Just because Kim possible knowns a lot of Kung-Fu does not mean she's a god mode sue, going by that logic, Batman is a G Od mode sue. Also, just because Laracroft is powerful, does not mean she's a god mode sue. She's a visdoe game character, so her having super-human abilities is expected. Mary-sue is not a subjective trope, there are a list of clear traits that define a mary-sue but a lot of people misinterperted those listed traits and add examples that don't fit. If being a mary-sie was subjective, then having these pages would be unneccessay and I could put any superpowered fictional character on this page.
      • Something a few people don't realise is that God Mode Sue is not a bad trope, it's a writing tool. Used badly, as it infamously is in Star Trek fics, then yes it is a bad trope. However Kim Possible uses this as the RuleofCool, given that she is portrayed as a positive role model her running in god mode is the point.

Batman does have Sue type qualities however in this case much of it is justified...as billionare Bruce Wayne he can afford all the shiny gadgets. Especially when not portrayed as running Waynecorp Batman trains like an olympian, if you went through the same intensity of training you could become Batman. Kim on the other hand, between school, cheerleading and a social life exactly where does she find the time to learn 16 styles of kung fu competently enough to save the world on a weekly basis?

Blackking:How does Batman master every style of martial arts by the time he was in his 20's when it takes years to master one style? Anyway, a god mode sue is not supposed to be a writing tool, I Ts bad writing trope. Ti doesn't have the word sue in it for no reason. Did you even read the title page description?

Don't be rude. It makes you look childish.

"God Mode Sue exists purely to show up how pathetically weak the rest of the world is, and how badly they need his or her help. If there's anybody else that is even capable of standing up for themselves, they may lose their abilities for some reason when the character comes into the equation, or become incompetent boobs, or both. They'll probably get captured or find something that they just can't handle. Then the God Mode Sue shows up, saves the day on his or her own at least twice as easily as they usually do when working as a team, and doesn't get his or her ass kicked at all. Then he or she stands around and wallows in their praise a bit.

God Mode Sue is so powerful because he or she often gets New Powers As The Plot Demands, and without any explanation or any of the normal limitations that a good writer will insert. In most balanced fiction, we generally know the hero's going to win, Downer Ending aside (Status Quo Is God, after all), but their abilities may fail them (or something like that) and so we watch to find out HOW they do it. God Mode Sue's powers never fail, nor is there any point where you think, "I KNOW the hero's gotta win, but how are they going to get out of this mess?" The plot and the fight is so blatantly biased towards the God Mod Sue that it becomes rather boring (and sometimes insulting).

[B]It's worthy to note that there is a correlation between Bad Ass and this trope. A proper Bad Ass will frequently break the Willing Suspension Of Disbelief, but they generally sell it through either Refuge In Audacity or just generally being convincing as something that could naturally come up with the character. However, they are still treated as normal characters by the plot and have to face potential repercussions to their actions like anybody else. God Mode Sue... doesn't. [/B]

God Mode Sue can overlap with pretty much anything, but generally doesn't overlap with Purity Sue (whose overwhelming specialness is its own superpower) or Sympathetic Sue. It can overlap with a Possession Sue if a writer wants to show what (they feel) a canon character can really do. If it overlaps with Villain Sue, then our heroes had better hope that he or she has a Heel Face Turn coming up, or else face Peril Rollover. "

That there bloded perfectly describes what kim actually is, a badass normal. Ti even justified why she can easily defeat most of her enemies in combat, because they're incompetent morons. Hell, some enemies are actually strong enough to take her on or defeat. She-go is a good example. Kim couldn't even take on Warmonga without the help of wade to outsmart her. She was even nearly defeated in the second movie and was defeated in the first one. She wasn't even the one to save the day in the grand finale. If she was a real god mode sue, she could have rapestomped the Lorwardian assault and make them look like a bunch of morons which they were anyway but they could easily defeat her if she took them on alone.

Okay, you give a solid reason to delete the entry. To just delete it without providing a cause on the other hand comes across as a fanboy who cannot stand their precious character being included as a trope that is flanderised as bad.

Your description doesn't even fit the definition of a god mode sue on the page. If a god mode sue is well written ,then it ain't a sue. There's a difference between a competent, powerful character and a god mode sue.

The problem with the mary sue pages isn't that people are addng characters they don't like , its that people are misunderstanding what an actual sue and flanderizating the concept of a mary sue. It was the same problem with the Mary Sue exemption page.

I'm not evening a kim possible fan, I'm just trying to make sure this page does not get flanderized.


Removed Saint of Killers - entry stated that he was there as he warped the rules of the Preacher universe by never running out of bullets and never missing. However, the Saint has the powers of the Angel of Death, and his guns are forged from said Angel's sword; he is explicitly said within the text to have these powers, so they don't warp the universe 'rules'. He's certainly hideously powerful, and even a god-moder, but he's more of a deus ex machina than a god-mode sue.

Ecliptor Calrissian: I was the one who put the Jenny entry back, but I didn't know there was discussion on it at the time. Rather than doing it again, I'll ask the rest of the tropers to make a decision on this (and ask Robert to abide by it if general consensus is - as it seems to be from what I've seen of the rest of the Doctor Who fandom - that Jenny is a Sue. If the community decides she's not so Sue, I'll abide by it as well.)

I didn't read about the episode before seeing it - not being a fan of spoilers, I never do. I consider her a Sue not as a pre-viewing judgment, but for the on-screen elements within the episode that are discussed in the entry. The text of the entry, minus the natter, is as follows:

  • Jenny from the Doctor Who episode "The Doctor's Daughter." Previously unknown daughter of main character? Check (created on the spot, though.) Ultra-competent, far above and beyond the rest of the cast? Check (there are even other characters of a similar origin, and they're nowhere near as good.) Heroic Sacrifice? Check, and insanely contrived (another character, deciding to shoot the Doctor with a flimsy motivation for doing so, stands there like an idiot just long enough for Jenny to walk around the Doctor and stand in front of him to Take The Bullet. The writer doesn't bother to come up with any reason for her to not simply regenerate.) Gets better without the side-effects of regeneration? Check. (Theoretically, because her creation plays by the same rules as regeneration, and so she effectively has a Healing Factor for a few hours.) In the end, she steals a spaceship out from under everyone's nose to travel the universe on her own.

It is because of these things, not the mere fact that she is the titular Doctor's Daughter, that every fandom discussion of her that I've seen calls her a card-carrying Mary Sue at the least vehement.

And as for her origin... many a Mary Sue in fanfiction is the Long Lost Awesomer Relative Of Awesome Character X. Whether long-lost or just created, the point is her appearance from left field. Sues tend to be surprise relatives of heroes, mentors, Ensemble Darkhorses, what-have-you. And many a Mary Sue has an origin that's a lot shinier than others... and being a clone with inborn mad fight skillz is certainly shinier than that of any member of the main cast. Jenny is a combination of the Surprise Relative Origin and the Shiny Origin, and that makes her more Sue, not less, in my opinion. Though admittedly, all the Redshirts from this episode were also clones with inborn mad fight skillz. (Just not as mad as hers.)

So, the million dollar question: Is Jenny from The Doctor's Daughter a Sue or not?

Robert: For convenience, I'll quote my rebuttal from below. Note too, I'm not the only person to have removed Jenny from this trope.

"Created on the spot is distinctly different from previously unknown. Ultra-competent, compared with the Doctor? Not even close (and aby clone of the Doctor's should be competent, by human standards) Heroic sacrifice? Commonplace for people inspired by the Doctor. Gets better without side-effects? Considering the three-way interaction of cloning, regeneration, and the terraforming device this is perfectly defensible. Stealing a spaceship which probably wasn't even guarded - pretty plausible.

The key point is the comparison with the Doctor. To be a god-mode sue in his universe, you have to outdo him, and that's no easy feat. If Jenny could shrug off death rays, permanently kill both the Master and Davros, time travel at will, or bring back Gallifrey, then she'd be a god-mode sue. As it is, she doesn't come close."

Further, Sues are not normally created on the spot, and all the non-regulars on Doctor Who come from out of left field. Jenny is better than the other clones because she's not human, but next to the Doctor she's nothing special, just another one-episode wonder. Many fans don't like the idea of the Doctor having a daughter (though is granddaughter is canon) so they determined to shoehorn her into the Mary Sue box, but she simply doesn't fit there.


Danel:
  • The title character of Dominic Deegan : Oracle for Hire starts out as just a seer with only precognition as his power. Fine. But over time, his precognitive abilities start to develop into him being such a master of the Xanatos Roulette that it gets a little hard to believe. This is ignoring other seemingly random abilities he has picked up as well, basically mutating him from a simple seer to some sort of godlike figure with an Omniscient Morality License. Worst part is that most of his friends get shades of this as well. "Super Greg", indeed...

This is weak and kind of vague. What "other seemingly random abilities"? And how does his friends also gaining comparable levels of power make it even worse? Wouldn't the main character being miles beyond everyone else be the worst thing?

DieHard: The whole "champion of balance" bit, plus a lot vaguely defined sorcery. To be fair, I stopped reading the webcomic around the "Urban Eddie" plot, but it did seem as though for a simple seer, he sure did have a lot of magical plot powers unrelated to precognition.

Rebochan: Pulled this one:

  • It may be different in the comics, but the 2008 film Iron Man Tony Stark qualifies. Fabulously wealthy, a genius, effortlessly charms everyone he meets, sleeps with whoever he wants, has Gwyneth Paltrow as his smitten assistant, and has an awesome robot superhero suit. Considering the way he treats his friends and employees, may be a bit of a Jerkass Stu as well.

Because the "plot bias" factor is missing. He isn't able to do things just because he's the main character, and a lot of bad things happen to him because of his Jerkass qualities. Then there's the fact that he has to keep his heart hooked up to a battery because he was more interested in designing things that blow up and getting laid than keeping watch over his weapons stockpiles.

Shay Guy: Just how old was the author of My Inner Life when she wrote her dream-diary-whatsit? And how long ago was that? I've been wondering since I started reading an MST if she hasn't since acknowledged that, yes, bad prose is still bad prose, along with the essential narcissism of the premise, and the fact that anything marked as a story should be judged on its merits as such. I can easily imagine LQ growing out of her Link-crush, finding some other interests, maybe reading some good Zelda fanfic...then, years later, stumbling across it again and realizing for the first time just how objectively bad her "story" is.

Then again, maybe I'm just an irrepressible optimist. :/

Kalle: When I first heard about it in 2002, it was said that she was twenty-three. I could be wrong, however...
Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Cut this and moved it here. This looks more Jerkass Stu than God-Mode Sue: God-Mode Sue requires demonstration of greater ability, not just greater ego.

  • Danny Chase from the Teen Titans was a Teen Superspy with telekinetic abilities who was too cool for a costume or a codename who never tired of telling the older (and more popular) characters how brilliant he was (or how stupid they were having costumes and codenames). He quickly became The Wesley of the team.

Jim: I'm calling this into question: Battlestar Galactica: Starbuck almost exemplifies one of these. The greatest pilot in the fleet. Trained in interrogation (this came out of nowhere). Has a “Special Destiny”, according to a Cylon. Is loved or lusted after by every major male character on the show. Her husband knows she’s cheating on him, but still loves her. Threatens the President and gets away with it. Let’s replace “Mary Sue” with “Kara Thrace” and be done with it..

Needlessly snarky. Factually incorrect, in that of the huge cast, she's caught between two guys. Ignores the fact that canonically, Starbuck is a massively flawed, broken character, who fights because she's good for nothing else, and has admitted as much herself, while still being seemingly helpless to stop herself doing really awful shit, a mark of serious depression and personality disorder.

Also, whoever added it had that pointed out to them by several other tropers, and simply erased those qualifications on the entry. I disapprove of editing without dialogue, especially in such a high-handed manner.

Ninjacrat: Uh, I erased the 'pointing out' because it was a pretty huge Conversation in the Main Page. I didn't alter the example because I haven't watched Battlestar Galactica, but if it's entirely inaccurate then you should just delete it yourself.

Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Kara Thrace's continued existence indicates she's probably some sort of Sue, but she didn't appear to be this kind. Moved her to Tsundere Sue for the time being, as that variety allows for her being psychologically messed up.


I pulled the example of River Tam, as she doesn't fit the description of the God Mode Sue at the top of the page. There's only a few instances of her actually kicking ass, and its generally in a believable, well-explained manner. She doesn't dominate the plot or overshadow the characters in the series, and she only plays the primary supporting role in the movie. Plus, her insanity is a pretty major flaw that kind of kills Sue-ness.


Rebochan: Pulled Jenny from The Doctor's Daughter. Someone is determined to make her into a Sue despite the fact that her only possible Sue trait is being a female and a relative of the Doctor. She *doesn't* have skills that make her far and above the best character and far more powerful than everyone else, because she's constantly relying on the Doctor and Donna. The story is not focused on her, but focused on the Doctor and the concept of suddenly having a Time Lord clone tagging along with him and his incredibly complicated emotions surrounding Time Lords in general. She isn't even instantly adored and worshipped by everyone in the cast - the Doctor is practically repulsed by her because she's not really a Time Lord and he knows she's just a genetic clone. Donna is just willing to give anyone a chance and she is always looking for ways to get the Doctor past all his emotional baggage. Plus, she died from a perfectly ordinary bullet and they still spent more time focusing on the Doctor himself than on Jenny's death. He *always* takes the deaths of innocents personally when he deems himself in charge of their welfare.

I'm only so annoyed with this character always being shoe-horned into Sue tropes because from the second the episode title came out, she was declared a Sue because people wanted to hate her preemptively.
  • Pulled it again. Plus it was gathering a hell of a lot of natter.

Robert: Pulled Jenny again. Entry was:

  • Jenny from the Doctor Who episode "The Doctor's Daughter." Previously unknown daughter of main character? Check (created on the spot, though.) Ultra-competent, far above and beyond the rest of the cast? Check (there are even other characters of a similar origin, and they're nowhere near as good.) Heroic Sacrifice? Check, and insanely contrived (another character, deciding to shoot the Doctor with a flimsy motivation for doing so, stands there like an idiot just long enough for Jenny to walk around the Doctor and stand in front of him to Take The Bullet. The writer doesn't bother to come up with any reason for her to not simply regenerate.) Gets better without the side-effects of regeneration? Check. (Theoretically, because her creation plays by the same rules as regeneration, and so she effectively has a Healing Factor for a few hours.) In the end, she steals a spaceship out from under everyone's nose to travel the universe on her own. This troper wonders if the writer didn't accidentally grab his daughter's Self-Insert Fic instead of his own script on the way to work that day.

Created on the spot is distinctly different from previously unknown. Ultra-competent, compared with the Doctor? Not even close (and aby clone of the Doctor's should be competent, by human standards) Heroic sacrifice? Commonplace for people inspired by the Doctor. Gets better without side-effects? Considering the three-way interaction of cloning, regeneration, and the terraforming device this is perfectly defensible. Stealing a spaceship which probably wasn't even guarded - pretty plausible.

The key point is the comparison with the Doctor. To be a god-mode sue in his universe, you have to outdo him, and that's no easy feat. If Jenny could shrug off death rays, permanently kill both the Master and Davros, time travel at will, or bring back Gallifrey, then she'd be a god-mode sue. As it is, she doesn't come close.
Sir Psycho Sexy:

I think we should remove Naruto. If he's a Gary Stu, than every other Shounen protagonist is one too. Anyone agree with me before I make the edit?

Drow Lord: If you don't remove it soon, I will.

Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: I put it there—I'll take it out. Here, in case someone changes his mind:
  • Naruto Uzumaki: Redeems half a dozen angsty bad guys just by beating them up, and sometimes not even doing that? Check. Was supposedly hated by the entire village his entire life, but they seem to forget about it as soon as the story starts? That too. Gains new powers or upgrades to an old power at the drop of a hat? Yup. Wins all the time except for the one time he needed to lose in order to keep the manga going? Got that too. Constantly spouts the themes of the series? You bet. As far as the plot and his general speshulness go, Naruto's up there.

Rebochan: And I pulled the natter-tastic and horrifically inaccurate submission of Alouette, who is again not a Mary Sue because she is portrayed as having flaws that make her border on Knight Templar - and she's called on it. Also, just because a character is, say, the avatar of a God, does not immediately upgrade them to Sue-status and thus turn their entire personality into a list of Sue traits.

I realize this split of Mary Sue tropes was supposed to make it easier to manage, but it seems to have the opposite effect of creating a Sueplosion - every single character or series that someone doesn't like is now going to be declared a Sue/Stu without regards to whether it even fits the trope.

Ethereal Mutation: This is what the Canon Sue article used to be like, but due to there being a really vague, subjective definition, it was less of an objective argument so much as it was just an argument over Popularity Power. At least now, you have to "sell it" (so to speak) within a (relatively) objective definition. The sad reality is that no matter what, people are going to bring in their complaints no matter what and the best that can be done is to just kill off bad examples as they pop up.
Cassius335: Pulled Doggie Krueger: The man's been fighting for decades, if not centuries, of course he's that good. Nor is he unbeatable.


Nornagest: Can someone more familiar with the novels than me revise the Drizzt example? He's definitely a God-Mode Sue from what I remember, but doing a bunch of over-the-top things isn't enough to prove it; we need to show that there's enough blatant Author Favoritism going on to break the suspension of disbelief. Out of the story's context, disconnected examples prove nothing.


Ethereal Mutation: Tek Jansen is already in Parody Sue where he belongs. Please stop adding him.


Ethereal Mutation: Merged the Shirayuki Berii into the Purity Sue entry. To my understanding, everybody hates her more because she derailed the other characters, not because she's powerful to the point of distraction.

Jisu: Nope, it's both. Put her back and left her in Purity Sue too.

Ethereal Mutation: The whole reason that there's a one character per type limit is because without it, everybody would try to Entry Pimp the hell out of the characters they hate ("I hate Dominic Deegan. Everybody not Obviously Evil™ loves him for no reason... Purity Sue. He can kill trained seer assassins and is the Champion of Balance... God-Mode Sue. He's kind of a dick... Jerkass Stu. He whines a lot about being Cursed with Awesome... Sympathetic Sue. He's obviously an Author Stand-In for a relationship with his perfect girlfriend, Luna... Relationship Sue. He has some flaws that don't really matter... Anti-Sue. He fixes everything around him effortlessly... Fixer Sue. He's kind of mean at times... Villain Sue. He's been the butt of the joke a few times... Parody Sue, but I'll make it sound bad. What else... I guess he's a bit of a Tsundere, so he's obviously a rare male exception for Tsundere Sue in spite of the presence of the Jerkass Stu article.")


Rebochan: Pulled Orlandu. He's not a Sue because plotwise, he's not nearly as powerful as his actual Game Breaker abilities and stats are. For crying out loud, you have to save him from being executed. All the while the player is wondering why he's not just grinding everything into pulp around him.


Nerem: Pulled Kira, as it was full of anti-fanwank with a good deal of inaccuracies and misunderstandings. Such as calling him by his title of 'Ultimate Coordinator' as a sign of suedom, despite it being the term for a Coordinator who was born without any defects and is of the exact specification that was requested of his DNA. Also, the example of him being 20 ZAFT soldiers in minutes is not only not unusual to him, but to pretty much every main character in SEED Destiny. Not to mention he just got an extremely powerful new Mobile Suit, and just seconds earlier, he got totally trashed in the weaker one he was using. His 'spotlight stealing' was a result of executive meddling pulling him OUT of the spotlight that he was intended, and putting his villainous rival in his place as a marketing scheme to draw in younger kids, with the rationale that they need a fresh young face for it. It didn't work.

Charred Knight: What the fuck are you talking about? Shinn was supposed to be an exploration of what it means to have power, and whether or not could he overcome his rage over his parents. When Kira was shoehorned back in due to the fact that he was more popular, they derailed Shinn completely, from an angsty child soldier, to a psychotic nutcase who hears voices in his head.


karpad: while I suck and am relatively new at editing here (as in I genuinely have no idea how to upload images to the wiki), I feel that the image on this page needs some attending. see here: Golgo bio How is that NOT possibly the best fucking example one could imagine? I enjoy the hell out of Golgo 13, but goddamn if every story isn't "introduce new, impossibly badass Sue, only to have him outshined by the Hax skills of Suier Sue, Duke Togo."

Ethereal Mutation: Waaaaaaaaay too large. I went ahead and changed it to a link to fix the page.


Ethereal Mutation: I changed the picture. The old one was rather large and low quality. If somebody can find a better quality picture of it, they can change it back. Here's the old picture.

Redkun: Is that better?

Ethereal Mutation: Quite a bit better. Not sure if the stuff around the midsection are compression artifacts or if the costume is really just that bad, but this is a lot less blurry and works better with the article.

Redkun: It's an insanely shiny costume.


Bob: Would John Galt of Atlas Shrugged fame count as a God Mode Stu? Quick Recap: Created as Ayn Rands vision of the perfect man, basically objectivism incarnate, creates a Lost World in the middle of a valley in Colorado powered by his super-engine... wins over the probable Author Avatar Mary Sue, and brings down civilization with a single, three hour, 50 page long, uninterupted radio address. Yay or Nay?

Ethereal Mutation: He's currently listed under Relationship Sue, since outside of his usage as Rand's mouthpiece and plot enabler (most likely due to her assumption that men are taken more seriously), he pretty much exists to just be the perfect beloved of Rand's blatant Author Avatar Purity Sue of Dagny.
Vampire Buddha wishes it to become known that he hates natter:

** Ahem...you must use her full title. Her Royal Highness Lieutenant Marrissa Amber Flores Picard Gordan, Princess and Heir to the throne of Essex, Chief of Security USS Enterprise, Fighter Commander, and Coordinating Officer for all Kids Crews in Starfleet.
** Of course, it bears mentioning that her actual appearance in the show (Season 5 episode "Disaster") was as a painfully shy kid who gained some confidence through her experiences. Somehow, in transition to fanfiction, the effects became amplified...
** Actually, this troper even enjoyed the un-MSTed version, under the So Bad, It's Good category. Of course, this troper isn't really a Trekkie...

*** This troper thought Shinji was pretty well treated in Neon Exodus Evangelion... once he finally showed up. Then again, this troper liked Neon Exodus.
*** And the only one to, I hope. Though that doesn't forgive his initial appearance one bit.

** It's just as easy for a bad writer to make him a Knight Templar, though. Yeah, not a lot of writers get Superman...
*** It's actually pretty easy to understand Superman. Y'see, all you need to know is that he's from the streets.

**Unlikely. He predates fanfiction terms. He just is that badass. In fact, a Canadian blogger rates characters on a Rex the Wonderdog scale. 1 rex is the maximum. Only Rex earns it.

** You spoke too soon. She's just saved the entire world in Giant-Sized Astonishing X-Men #1, with a Heroic Sacrifice.
*** Which ups the score to one time in six years, with the caveat that she won't be doing it again any time in the foreseeable future (though this being Marvel, she'll be back.)
  • Twice if you count Danger. Or possibly three times. And Ord was, effectively, beaten by her minions after beating everyone except her.
    ** Come to think of it, this accusation is leveled at female characters written by Chris Claremont quite frequently. Aside from Shadowcat, the most commonly accused are Storm and Sage, but Claremazon is a fairly common term of derision in several circles.

** Yeah, being married to the guy making movies about your character will do this kind of stuff for you. When you tell a guy he's not getting a "mouth hug" if you don't get to kill the Big Bad, some guys will indeed head to the word processor and justify a lead pipe killing something a crater-bomb was needed for previously.

*** 'Never failed at all'? Were it not for the intervention of John Clark, there are at least three separate instances where Jack Ryan's career would have died in flames. One instance also would have taken his marriage and probable sanity with it.
*** ...Which leads to the uncomfortable realisation that one Self-insert was required to save another Self-insert on multiple occasions, but I digress. Besides, "would have", not "did".
*** So, if he's a God-Mode Sue when he triumphs by himself, and also is one when he needs the help of his friends just to survive... then what protagonist isn't a Sue by that definition? There's also that y'all are claiming that two characters who are literally complete opposites in almost every respect are both self-inserts for the same author, which would require him to have been born mirror twins.

*** This Troper was never aware that he was Roddenberry's Author Avatar, but the fact that Wil hated the role is somewhat legendary in trek fandom. In fact, he was screwed by the producers a few times — for example, asking to be let go to do a movie, only to be forced to cancel the movie deal under the impression that he was going to get a bigger part on the show and then written out of the show out of spite.
** What about Captain James Tiberius Kirk in Star Trek: The Original Series? He can beat any man in a fist fight (except Spock, but including Super Soldier Khan), and bed any Green-Skinned Space Babe. After Spock tells him what he should logically do, and Bones tells him what human compassion requires, it's always Captain Kirk who decides to Take a Third Option. Even though Spock is clearly competent enough to be a starship captain, he's content to be Kirk's assistant.
*** Episode "The Galileo Seven" explored the idea of Spock in command. His logic-over-psychology approach makes him a distinctly uninspiring, critical leader.
  • Well, having a bridge officer be more competent than the captain is common enough in Trekdom, the primary example being Riker.
    *** This troper would argue that Picard was by far the more competent officer, but Riker, being flawed, got the better character episodes. (Think about it. Aside from "Best Of Both Worlds", what does Riker do, aside from "Shields up!", "Red Alert!", straighten his uniform, and attempt to glower menacingly.)
    *** Well he had a really bitchin' beard. This troper grew up with TNG, and remembers thinking, "Dude, I want a beard like that when I grow up."

**It's implied, however, that he drowned himself.
*** Like hell it is. They Never Found the Body.

** Rule of thumb for Sixth Rangers: their power is inversely proportional to the number of episodes since their debut. Just give it time and the Go-Ongers will soon overtake them.
***Yeah, just ask Magi Shine/Solaris Knight how that goes.

** As a kid watching this I picked up that this incarnation of Sonic is basically a speedster Bugs Bunny, complete with the knack for ridiculous disguises and (I think) occasional cross-dressing.

Also, a couple of other things...

* If Drizzt Do'Urden isn't a God-Mode Sue, he's close. He has: defeated a being with all the experience and ferocity of the best warrior in the Underdark and the toughness of being undead; gone toe-to-toe with the chosen of a god and won; and killed a six-armed demon general in a straight fight.
** Uh, in the first instance, he didn't win; said undead supreme warrior was his father who Drizzt was handily able to hold off, unwilling strike harder, until his own soul reasserted itself and then committed suicide. In the second case, he won only because of the mechanations of Lolth and Errtu and the timely use of an antimagic crystal. In the third case, he won because Bruenor flanked the marilith and made an opening for him.
*** Wrong chosen of a god. I was talking about Obould.
***Yeah, that? He went "toe-to-toe" with him at the end of "The Two Swords" for as long as it took to realize that Obould was, in fact, effectively invincible. Said fight ended with Drizzt running the hell away, and Obould dusting himself off after falling into a chasm. Then casually biting the throat out of a Drow priestess who'd got him into the mess in the first place.
** Drizzt while very competent has nothing on other characters in Forgotten Realms. Including Jarlaxle of the same series who always one-ups everyone, has a seemingly infinite number of tricks, and generally frolics through the chaos he creates with nary a scratch. Oh yeah and he can maybe fight as well as if not better then Drizzt and Entreri.
*** Then there's Cadderly in Passage to Dawn casually summoning up major demons, and treating them rather like his personal bitches.
*** Does it strike anyone as curious that all these characters are created and/or written by RA Salvatore?

There's a whole lot of natter here, but the main reason I pulled it is because I have no idea who this Drizzt fellow is. If somebody more knowledgeable wants to put him back in and say what work of fiction he's from, go ahead.

* Since the game itself isn't out yet and this troper hasn't read the novelization, this is merely speculation, but Darth Vader's apprentice in Star Wars: The Force Unleashed seems to qualify based on the available information. He's supposedly only an "apprentice", yet his feats of Force mastery are far beyond anything that has been shown in the movies or most of the Expanded Universe. Even Yoda and Mace Windu in the notably over-the-top "Clone Wars" cartoon never came close to this guy. In the teaser trailer for the game, he's shown Force-pulling a Star Destroyer to the ground.

Only actual examples, please.

Joysweeper: Sure, it's Natter. But I really liked this bit, and it finally got me to start watching these, so I'd like to keep it here. Does Marvel/DC have a page yet?
  • It's just as easy for a bad writer to make him a Knight Templar, though. Yeah, not a lot of writers get Superman...
    • I'd say Marvel: After Hours got the explanation right.
      Lex Luthor: ... you're an overpowered, unrelatable demigod that no one believes in.
      Pause as his words sink in.
      Spiderman: I believe in you.
      Massive show of support from other heroes. Stan Lee steps up.
      Stan Lee: ...Everyone, hero or not, would love to be able to do more, be better, to always know right from wrong, and have the strength to make sure that right always wins. ...The reason my characters are so relatable is that they're all trying to be like you.

Ethereal Mutation: I put the James Bond example back. Villain Balls, Idiot Plots, and incredibly convenient Chekhovs Guns are the hallmark of the Mary Sue. They represent obvious authorial intrusion in order to facilitate the plot in favor of the character. Just because it's external to the character doesn't mean that they aren't definite Mary Sue qualifiers.


Tal9922: This-
  • Krasus and Rhonin from Richard Knaak's Warcraft books. When he was commissioned to write a trilogy on an important historical event, he turned the story into a time travel mess-up just so he could have his two favourite characters in there, witnessing it. When Knaak got to write the manga, he made Krasus a mentor character to the heroes, even though the events had absolutely nothing to do with him.

Am I the only one that likes Knaak's books and characters? The world was nearly destroyed because Krasus and Rhonin got dragged there, which added to the thrill of waiting to see what happened in the end, seeing as things were no longer set in stone. Not to mention that even if the time travel plot was as messy as you claim (which I firmly enforce it wasn't), Rhonin and Krasus were hardly "God Mode" there. Heck, Krasus was downright useless, fighting-wise, for long periods of time there. Rhonin, while indeed becoming stronger, was off the spotlight for far, far, too long to be considered a Sue of any kind. Regarding the Manga, Krasus was hardly the Mentor, but he did mastermind some of the events there. If anything, that made him cooler in my eyes. Removing it.


Rebochan: I seriously question the inclusion of both the Elder Scrolls and Persona3's main characters. In the case of the Elder Scrolls, its an example of giving you hundreds upon hundreds of options, leaving your character a blank slate to mold into whatever they want, and giving the player the choice of being able to take all of them if they're good enough. The entry really just reads like a list of Sue traits without any explanation of why it makes the player a Sue, but any protagonist in an open-ended RPG with hundreds of choices and open-ended options will have those traits (see Fallout, Fable, etc.) and will be able to do things like become the Hero of (Insert Country Here), save the world, ascend to a higher plane of existence, etc. Also, wouldn't the fact that you have to level up and learn how to actually do any of these things defeat the God-Mode Sue aspects? Plus the fact the enemies level with you so they're supposed to always be challenging. It's not a cakewalk to Godhood. And at the end of the day, no matter how great a hero/god you are, setting townspeople on fire will still get you arrested, so there goes another Sue trait. And really, having people sing your praises because you, say, built up your reputation by doing hundreds of good deeds or a few significant events already disqualifies one from Mary Sue hood because you had to A) work up to that and B) Actually earn their respect. Even the natter called this out. So did a few entries on the topic of Western RPGs that are all repeating the same thing. Actually, open-ended games like that hand you a blank slate character and then require that you level up, build your reputation, and actually have to work for everything you get. A God-Mode Sue does not need to work for this, he's already awesome in a can. And assuming you actually reach a point where you can stomp over everything, its not because you're just that awesome, its because you spent hours upon hours building a character that could do that (unless there's a Gamebreaker in there that ruins the fun). Going from Level 1 to being capable of defeating the most powerful boss in the game is the entire point of an RPG (western and JRPG, actually).

As for Persona3, the Main Character's abilities are based on how strong his relationships are with other people, so its mandatory that he be able to make as many friends as possible. And as noted in the natter, it is nearly impossible to link up to every single person in the game without a guide. In the case of Aigis, while the Hero is the person she cares about the most, her humanity is not entirely the Hero's - everyone at the dorm worked to make her fit in with humans and encourage her emotions. You can't say that was entirely because of a godlike Sue hero. Switching Personas does not make the other party members useless and I seriously question whether the person who said that actually played the game for very long, because planning your party is the difference between life and death. Does every single game with an automated party also need to be added to this list because the main character will always be the strongest by default? Also, the main character collecting Personas is a holdover from the earlier games where all of your characters could do this. It only makes sense that if the system was switched over to one that automated the other party members that the Main Character would have to be flexible because otherwise you could get stuck with a party with a huge elemental weakness and no ability to defend against them. In a game where you can and *will* die if your opponent can start chaining spells against you. Finally, for Messiah, so what? Should we start copying down every character from The Messiah page and adding them here? What pushes that particular hero into ridiculous Sue status? And don't forget that it's also meant to be an obvious contrast between the self-sacrificing Hero and the selfish, murderous Takaya, who has been passing himself off as a messiah for the final few hours of the game. Also, his ultimate power sacrifices his soul to protect humanity from itself. And it would appear that nobody outside the party (including any friends or girlfriends) even remembers the main character as a result, so its not like your hero ends the game with a harem of beautiful women at his beck and call and the adoration of millions. Heroic Sacrifice yes, but we are not listing every single person from that page either, are we? And I don't know where the "man crushes" comment came from. Apparently social links with anyone is romantic to that troper, because that's the only justification.

And its not like he even inherently has that power - all of the character's Persona abilities and that one in particular all stem from something Aigis did to him. If she'd done it to any other Persona user, that person would have the same abilities as well.

Oh yes, and the Battle with the Ultimate Opponent? It's an optional boss and it is the hardest fight in the game. The biggest reason its hard as hell is because you have to fight by yourself with no one supporting you, which means you have to make sure you can actually support yourself one turn at a time. Presumably a God-Mode Sue would just steamroll the boss in one or two rounds?

TL;DR - I'm pulling these entries for not fitting the trope and because they're still gathering justified natter and will keep doing so because they're not examples of this trope.

Rebochan: Since when are mythological characters Mary Sues? Or for that matter, the stars of epic poems, who by the nature of the genre always had ridiculous power levels, legions of fans and adoration, and unbelievabley flat characterizations?
Rebochan: Took out the Bible example, listed as a subversion. The example given is in fact an Averted Trope, but the lack of God Mode Sues isn't generally something worth noting on this page in the first place.


Nornagest: Cut from the John Galt entry —

...can get a woman to love him by raping her...

Galt's first night with Dagny Taggart was a little bizarre for unrelated reasons, but obviously consensual. You're thinking of Howard Roark from The Fountainhead. As far as that goes, Word of God on Roark is that "if it was rape, it was rape by engraved invitation"; I'm not inclined to believe Ms. Rand on that one, but it does point to some rather squicky Author Appeal on her part.


Unknown Troper: Axed the entry for the Ultramarines Chapter Master. Not only does it not include any examples befitting God Mode Sue-ness, it also overlapped with Purity Sue and contained inappropriate language. Besides, calling anyone in 40K a Sue is really stretching it.

Be: Read the new Codex then tell me that with a straight face. And this isn't the Other Wiki, inappropriate language isn't grounds for termination.


Prfnoff: Beginning a general purge of Canon Sue examples. Here are the ones from God-Mode Sue:

Canon
    Stuff 
Be: Do I have to be the one to fight you on this? Are you bloody insane? What the hell are you doing this for? Does anybody but you want it done? Will I ever get an answer for these questions? The answer to that last one is "probably not". Stop poncing about with the Sue examples, it is so pointless even my hair is hurting from it.

Rebochan: Good, I'm not the only person wondering what the hell is going on here. There's been no discussion on this topic whatsoever, so you don't get to remove all of that content with no consensus.
  • Rebochan: I have restored all of the Canon Sue examples because they were removed without warning or discussion. Please discuss this topic on the Canon Sue Discussion page so there will be consensus.

Decide the fate of the examples here.
Rebochan: The fate of the examples has been decided - they are staying but with much stricter standards. As part of the cleanup process, I pulled any entries that had started gathering justifying edits, and a few that seemed questionable. If you want a contested Sue entry included on the page, justify why here so there can be consensus. If you think a Sue entry on the page now should not be there, cut it, put on discussion, and we'll debate it. End of edit wars. Anyone that only becomes a Sue with a bad writer is pulled - if there's debate about that, discuss it here as well.

I also cut a few that are describing the wrong trope and they have since been exported to the correct trope pages.

Also, if you only put someone's name and nothing else...your entry gets pulled. This isn't a list. You have to Justify Your Sue.

    First Culling 

Rebochan: More clean up. Debated examples are below, and this time with my reasoning process. Please feel free to argue if you feel they should remain on the page.

     The Second Culling 

I also pulled the entire Real Life section because real people cannot by Mary Sues...because they actually exist. If they're claiming things they haven't done, they're a great fit for Small Name, Big Ego, but this page is only for fictional characters.
Rebochan: Culled this:

  • The titular character of Detective Conan. Conan/Shinichi a spoiled rich kid and a super genius capable of solving several hundred manga chapters' worth of murders all on his lonesome. He has super-shoes, super suspenders, a rocket-powered skateboard, a voice-changer bow tie, radio tracker glasses, and whatever other toys are convenient to the story. He can drive a speedboat, pilot a plane, pilot a helicopter, is a crack shot, a soccer star, is multilingual, and plays the violin spectacularly. Whatever other skills he manifests over the course of the series, you can be sure he learned them quickly and easily — in Hawaii.

It doesn't sound like a Sue, just a main character. A main character on a show that had to stay fresh for over a decade.
Rebochan: Culled the following:

  • Son Goku. Super Saiya 1, Super Saiya 2, Super Saiya 3, Super Saiya Insert Number Here Even Though It Was Supposed To Be Impossible. Even when someone else (e.g. Piccolo) kills the Big Bad, it's because Goku lent him power. Even when he's dead, it's his spirit that spurs on whoever is taking up the role of ass-kicker to victory.

I'm not a huge fan of DBZ, but I am aware of a lot of the plot simply through cultural osmosis. And that is that everybody's power level fluctuates to whatever they need it to be to forward the plot. And Goku still died at the hands of someone stronger than him and someone else had to finish the job. I'm also really wary of including examples of main characters from a major franchise with a large Hatedom on principle.

Cassy: I think Son Goku fits in spite of this, as he's ridiculously, ridiculously overpowered and always ends up winning at the end of the day (well, or his "mini-me" Son Gohan does -he's even more ridiculously overpowered but not as interested in fighting). And he's mainly remembered by fans and non-fans alike for being a virtuoso ass-kicker of Superman-like proportions. At the very least, I think it should be put back with the qualification "Many view Son Goku as this because..." (and yes, I've actually watched the show.)

Uglyguy: I have to strongly disagrre with that. Yes, Goku is absurdly powerful but that alone done doesn't constitute a God-Mode Sue. In fact, your statement that Goku always wins is incorrect. The opponents he has lost are as follows: Jackie Chun (Master Roshi), Tao Pai Pai, Tenshinhan, Tambourine, Piccolo Daimao, Mr. Popo, Raditz, Cell, General Rilldo and Baby Vegeta. Of all that list, the only characters he hasn't had a comeback against (or at least seen to) are: Jackie Chun (Master Roshi) and Mr. Popo (this includes Cell, going by the manga). That alone should dispell any idea of Goku being a God-Mode Sue. Even the transformations he uses are not completel inaccessible to other characters (although Vegeta needed the Bruits Waves to turn Super Saiyan 4).

A God-Mode Sue should be character written to be so talented at what he does, he makes everyone, including the most challenging of villains look pathetic. Goku doesn't do that. Even when he shows a new transformation, he has been shown to have a genuine challenge with his opponent and even tire, perhaps even die (as with Raditz and Cell). So no, Goku isn't a God-Mode Sue, because under that definition, you'll have to describe Superman, Batman, Tenchi and especially The Doctor as this trope.

TurkishDelight: Added back in Darth Revan in the video game section. I'm not really trying for an edit war, but if you don't think the guy belongs there, at least have the decency to explain why here before you delete it.

Unknown Troper: Revan was removed because the description of him does nothing to define him as a Sue beyond basically calling him a badass and charismatic character. In a setting with Luke Skywalker, Thrawn, Palpatine, and Mace frickin' Windu, Revan only stands out because he is that time-frame's equivilant of these characters. Yes, the characters all remark about him in reverence or fear; they do the same thing for Exar Kun in the same timeframe, and later for Palpatine, for Thrawn, and for Luke Skywalker. Larger-than-life historical figures tend to have that effect, especially in a setting that regularly delivers superhuman demigods that play the role of epic heroes. Having reverence or fear for a powerful individual who shakes an entire galaxy in recent memory is entirely reasonable, unless you want to call actual historical figures in the real world who had equivilant levels of effect on the real world Mary Sues, too. Following the logic that everyone being afraid of or reverent toward an individual means that they're a Mary Sue means that Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, and, yes, Adolf Hitler were all Mary Sues.


The Sasuke example in Canon seems much more like a bashing rant from a hater then a real example. Tell me, who nearly got killed twice by KillerBee, had to be bailed out by his team, and is slowly going blind? Plus, the timeskip? I clearly remember something about Jiraiya wanting to protect him from the Akatsuki... I would reword it to be, y'know, accurate, but I fear lurker's opinion only counts for moo.


Removed Kira Yamato. He was beaten by Shinn, which the entry tried to skirt around by tentatively saying it was referring to Kira in Strike Freedom only, but the Strike Freedom had comparatively little screentime and this is tantamount to saying that a person that wins one battle is a god moder when that's the only battle they've actually had. Furthermore, he was having difficulty in his fight with Rey until Rey lost it, and the point of the God Mode Sue is that they have no difficulty prevailing in all circumstances as per the trope description.


Farseer Lolotea: Who else thinks Med'an (the half-human, quarter-orc, quarter-draenei son of Garona Halforcen and Medivh from the World Of Warcraft Comic) is a canon example? He's already a mage and a shaman; now, in the most recent issue, he aspires to be a paladin after meeting his great-uncle, who's a draenei vindicator. (It's rather a pity about all of that; he's as close to being a sympathetic character as the writers seem to be able to manage.)
  • Screw it, I'm just adding him.

P Miller 1: Joshua, God-Mode Sue or Not?


Unknown Troper: I'm going to have to agree with Mr. Death here on Harry Dresden not being a GMS, especially for the reasons that keep being brought up. His supposed skill with women being a GMS trait is ridiculous and idiotic; aside from that not even being an indicator for GMS, of the women who have actively propositioned him, a grand total of one did it entirely of her free will (Susan). Of the others, Murphy admits she cares about him but never gets close, and Luccio is mind-controlled. Maeve is irrelevant, as she's a Faerie Queen whose base nature demands she appeal to and manipulate everyone around her, Lara Raith is a freaking White Courth vampire who feeds off and enslaves people via sex, Tessa s a psychopath who offered sex as a means to her ends, and Lash is trying to corrupt Harry into slavery. And he is cruel to Molly, because Molly is an idiot who has already once been tempted by Black Magic, and if she backslides both he and Molly will be executed. being a rough teacher is justified in that case, and unless you want to accuse every military drill instructor in the world of being a Sue because they are rough on their students because they will be going into life-or-death situations, that doesn't count. Always getting in the last word - unless we're going to put everyone under Deadpan Snarker on this list, this is retarded. And that bit about Thomas constantly getting beaten up being some kind of nerd fantasy: what kind of fucked-up relationship must you have with your relations to have them getting beaten up be your fantasy? I am a proud and loud geek, but I have never had any fantasies about my family members getting beaten up.


Unknown Troper: Pulled the following due to an Edit War between millinniummany3k and Black King. Hash out the disagreement here on the discussion page, instead of engaging in a pointless edit conflict. Also, millinniumm3k, please stop accusing someone whose edits you disagree with as being vandalism. That definition only applies to overtly destructive and disruptive edits. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're vandals.

  • Lara Croft of Tomb Raider would have to be going neck and neck with Kim Possible in this catagory about now. Less so in the reboot if we were to ignore the games up to Legend, where over the trilogy she is shown as a badass normal instead of suffering from Barbie Doll syndrome and portrayed to be able to do anything. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing as both are portrayed (or at least interpreted) as all powerful positive role models.

  • Kim Possible has very few flaw portrayed, yet her apparently knowing 16 styles of kung fu is just the beginning of her of accomplishments. A short list includes going up the amazon, down a volcano, dog sledding in the arctic, swimming the English Channel, scaling Mount Everest, and in the same episode she claims these things she pilots a spaceship. When one of the show's taglines is "She can do anything", this trope is in full force. Like the Lara Croft example above, being a Sue isn't necissarily a bad thing. Given that Kim is a positive role model for girls, having a godly level of badassery is pretty much the point.


  • Ranchanthalas: Princess Vejitina is definitely a God-Mode Sue. Consider:
  • Vejitina is the Long Lost Sibling of Prince Vegeta. Most Mary Sue DBZ characters are mysterious Saiyan survivors, and this one is no exception. Bonus Sue points for being a princess.
  • Vejitina is a half-breed Saiyan, to boot. Halfie Saiyans have traditionally been stronger than purebloods in the DBZ cosmology and this literary device is a transparent ploy to give the author an excuse for her God-Mode Sue to surpass Vegeta in strength.
  • In her early teens Vejitina gains the ability to transform into a non-canonical Saiyan transformation stronger than Super Saiyan. Keep in mind at this time that while this is happening, Vegeta is doing grunt work for Frieza and Goku is living peacefully on Earth with Chi-Chi in the years between DB and DBZ.
  • She goes on to 'cut a swathe of wanton destruction across the galaxy the likes of which not even Frieza had attempted.' And we're supposed to believe this is the hero!
  • Beats up on Vegeta when the Saiyan Prince arrives on Earth, usurping the role of Goku. Bonus points for calling her brother a 'bitch' for working for Frieza (which all the Saiyans had been forced to do).
  • After some clashes with minor villains, Frieza returns to Earth, per the canon. However, Vejitina usurps the role of Trunks, killing Frieza effortlessly to the shock and awe of the Z Senshi.
  • Most glaringly, usurps the role of Goku a second time by becoming the official protector of the Earth following the death of Frieza. No explanation is given for Goku's abdication, nor for his sudden absence (he never appears again).

  • Ranchanthalas: If we're going to be putting up God Mode Sues and so on, I don't think Fanworks should be allowed to count. For one thing, they are not canon and have no bearing on whatever they may be a part of and for another, if you have such an issue with them, 9 times out of 10 there's a way to make it known to the author/artist themselves rather than writing it here where it's only seen if someone looks for it. For another, RPG profiles shouldn't count because it's an RPG run by individuals who play in that particular universe, but have no way to account for some canon characters other than trying to play them all themselves... which is nearly impossible. That and I have to agree with Unknown Trooper: this is meant for actual canon God Mode Sues, not just characters they happen to not like... or the people behind said characters that they don't like that they simply use as an excuse to be jerks.
    • See above for a solid example of the bwaaing in question. Fanfic writers can be notoriously thin-skinned and respond to any criticism of their work with hysterical ranting. In lieu of avoiding a frenzy of edit wars by vain fanfic writers I have to agree that this page remain devoid of examples.
    • Ranchanthalas: Being fanwork, and of an alternate universe continuity where things have been changed to work around absentee characters due to no one to play them, it has no bearing on the trope at all. Not only that, but no other fanwork has been listed here but mine and I know why you're doing it. Pretty petty.
      • Fanwork is not sacrosanct from criticism, as exploration of the various other Mary Sue examples will reveal, or even the content of the God-Mode Sue entry prior to all examples being deleted. Also, please attempt to keep your discourse professional. TV Tropes is a catalogue of tropes, not a proving ground for vendettas.

Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Um, Mary Sues in general were recognized in Fan Fic before they were recognized in professional fic. This is a type of Mary Sue. Therefore, this is a Fan Fic trope. So we can't exclude Fan Work. We can't make a comprehensive list of Fan Work (only the "egregrious" entries), but we can't simply say "no fanwork" either.

Alara J Rogers: Can we remove Wesley Crusher? He may well be a Mary Sue but he is not a God Mode Sue. The only rule of the Star Trek universe that he breaks is the one that says that teenagers don't belong on the bridge; he saves the ship three times, twice from disasters he himself created, which is hardly the fannishly popular notion that he saves it constantly; and he exists on the same ship as Data. And Geordi "my VISOR can do absolutely anything" La Forge. And Jean-Luc "did I mention that I'm an expert on Shakespeare? And history? And horseback riding? And fencing? In fact is there anything aside from putting up with kids that I can't do?" Picard. As for evolving into a superbeing, it was hardly surprising considering how often men his mother dated turned into, or turned out to be, superbeings. I thought that to be God-Mode Sue you have to dramatically overshadow everyone else in the story, and the only character who comes close to doing that on TNG is Data. Wesley Crusher's not even in the same ballpark as Data. His only Sue qualifications come from his age and his status as a self-insert; otherwise he's a completely normal Trek character and well within the acceptable range of abilities for characters in that universe. (This is a franchise where two different teenagers, and a little boy who looked like an adult, all turned out to be omnipotent beings, after all.)

Unknown Troper: Agreed and pulled.


Crowbar: So, what's with The Irate Gamer entry? Copied in full:

  • The Irate Gamer, seriously, The Irate Gamer, he almost never gets hurt or killed in any of his episodes, not even a small injury!

Doesn't he review games? I'll admit, I've only seen his Yo Noid! review, so I don't know if this trope is more prevalent in his other stuff, but surely reviewing old games shouldn't immediately result in heaps of combat?


Silver2195: Removed more bad examples. Antimony Carver is not a Sue because she has actual flaws.