Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

new items at the bottom, please
Seth:This is a very strange entry.

Janitor; What's bugging you about it? It seems to read pretty clearly, and the term — fridge logic — is actual writer-room jargon. The lead is a bit buried, I'll grant you.

Seth: I had to read through it a couple of times to get it and something just seems off about it. Its a completely ordinary entry it just gave me pause for a moment.

Wiki: Now this is the best trope ever.

Seth: I preferred "It hadn't bothered him during the show. It wasn't until he discovered he was running short of beer that it became an issue." to "It hadn't bothered him during the show. It wasn't until he actually got off the couch and went to the fridge that he realized that there was something fishy about it."

Tabby: Removed
  • Heroes episode ".07%": how did Mohinder travel through Manhattan, apparently in a cab no less, with a dead Peter, without the cab driver calling the cops?

...because there's an explanation already there in the show. It's Mohinder's cab.

  • A decent portion of the movie is made up of the creators of the show trying to keep Truman from leaving the set of the eponymous show, but this leaves one wondering why they didn't just tell him that his little island is the entire world.

...because they're trying to emulate small-town America. This seems pretty obvious, IMHO.

Shale: As for the other part of the entry: "All the people on the show (with the exception of Truman himself) are actors... so if his wife is an actor, isn't she basically being paid to have sex with him? On top of that, the director Christoff mentions his goal of "the first child born on television", so not only is she essentially a prostitute, she's also being paid to get pregnant..."

...and? With all the "pick a mate" reality shows on TV today, this doesn't seem remarkably taboo for now, much less 20 Minutes into the Future.

And, if we think about it, the Director already got his wish — in that Truman was the first child born on television (witness the ponderously-voiced introduction... "an audience of millions witnessed his birth."

Red Shoe: Should it be noted: I've seen two fairly different takes on this notion; to a writer, Fridge Logic means "Don't sweat it; as long as the viewer doesn't notice the problems until he gets to the fridge, it's okay.", whereas to a viewer, it often means "The show doesn't just have to make sense now; it's only good if it still makes sense when you stop and think about it at the fridge door later."

Fast Eddie: Certainly worth noting. The writer is out to protect the narrative flow, in the time he has, with the perspective he has. There are tons of readers, with tons of time to pick it apart afterward. Of course, if the writer can get tons of readers to spend massive amounts of time picking it apart, the writer wins.
Tanto: Three problems with the Harry Potter example:

  1. It's too long;
  2. It's entirely spoilered, and is thus essentially useless;
  3. It's Too Soon.

Moving it here for now:

  • Literary example: In Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, supposedly, the Elder Wand - one of the items that make up the titular trifecta - passes on its mastery to whoever defeats, disarms, or kills its former master in battle. Voldermort takes the wand believing that he is in control of it, thinking that Snape (whom he kills for the wand's mastery) gained the wand's loyalty by killing Dumbledore, when instead it passed to Draco after he disarmed Dumbledore right before Snape kills him; Harry then disarms Draco later, thus passing mastery on to him. HOWEVER, right after Harry gains mastery of the wand, Voldermort kills him in battle (oh, sure, there can be some argument about him coming back to life or how Voldermort only really succeeded in destroying the piece of his soul that he unwittingly trapped inside Harry when he tried to kill the lad as a baby, but he was still dead, complete with a choice of "moving on" or returning to finish Voldermort once and for all), so technically, Voldermort should have mastery of the wand, now, not Harry. So...why in the hell does everyone - including the wand itself - act like Harry's still its master?

Foxyshadis: There are a few instances of this _actually happening_ in TV shows, the hero/ine finally having a chance to think in the kitchen and suddenly realizing something just doesn't add up, presumably lampshades. One example that comes to mind is Ergo Proxy (though I'd have to rewatch to be sure), but I'm pretty sure I remember it being leaned on in detective movies as well.

Tamfang: In Buffy 1.7 "Angel", Giles spends several hours studying up on The Three before Buffy has had an opportunity to tell him she encountered The Three. In 2.15 "Phases", Oz is shown waking up naked and bewildered after his second night as a werewolf, but apparently didn't notice his first.

Peteman: Here's one: in the South Park Episode "The Losing Edge", the team in the finals meets up with a team that are extremely good at being bad, going so far as to having players bat balls into the open gloves of their distracted opponents. If they're so good at being bad, how the hell did they get so far, unless their opponents kept on getting violent and attacking their opponents.

Cutting these, as this is what the beginnings of Thread Mode look like:
  • He doesn't wear them all the effing time. How would he be capable of certain bodily functions or of fathering his daughter if he did? He must change them sometime.
  • Alright, why don't you explain what the plotholes were then instead of laughing in an incredibly hollow fashion?

If I recall correctly, all examples were reverted back to the description prior to the Great Crash.

Cutting this, because it just plain ain't true. The TV series has never hinted at a multiple timelines answer.

Silent Hunter: Problem with The Incredibles entry: Jet engines can be run on the ground. You have to start them up.

Blork: What is the difference between the Fridge Logic examples and the It Just Bugs Me! section? It seems like everything in here could go there.

Lale: They all could. If you ask me, the Fridge Logic should be reserved when shows or parodies or fan "abridged series" reference or lampshade it. All actual Fridge Logic belongs in It Just Bugs Me!. It even says so in this entry.
Mr Death: Took out the Metroid entry because it's not Fridge Logic at all:

  • What the hell does Metroid's Samus Aran do in her spare time? We only ever see her Kicking Ass and Taking Names in her power suit, but she must do something on her days off. (The answer: Play Metroid. No Fourth Wall taken to a new level.)
    • Either that or train in Close Quarters Combat for the Smash Bros Tournament. (Although I wonder why she doesn't use said skills in an actual mission? Maybe said tournament takes place between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion?
      • Considering some of the Fanservicey ending portraits of Samus strutting along futuristic cities, she may well moonlight in the Galaxy's oldest profession. Metroids aren't dooming the world enough to pay the bills all the time, after all.

...You could say that about every single piece of fiction ever made.
Fast Eddie: pulled ....
a black man taking home a white woman?
... as the implication in the paragraph would be that one or both of those two would not be human. No, thanks.
Fast Eddie: natter
  • Not too big a case, but still: according to Triana of The Venture Bros., she's been terrified of her closet her entire life. However, she's only been living at the Venture Complex for about a year. Does that mean she keeps choosing the same side of the house that has the doorway to hell her entire life?
    • Actually, the scene you're thinking of implied that her dad keeps choosing her closets in particular to make a gateway to another world, and blanks her memories everytime she finds out.

Charred Knight: I have no idea what the first part is talking about but the reason so many people are needed is because the Philosopher's stone uses people souls for Equivalent Exchange. The more souls used the more powerful the stone.

  • And if a Philosopher's stone is equivalent to bringing someone back to life, why do so many people need to be killed to make one?

Document N: I didn't pay much attention to FmA, but my answer would be that alive to dead is downhill, while dead to alive is uphill.
Janitor: Moving this bit of natter over, re: Bt VS vampires and breath...

  • I guess presumably they were originally going to say that vampire don't really exist (no reflection after all) and their whole body and voice is mostly some weird magical projection made by a demon. Clearly was an abandoned plot point.

Janitor: More natter, likely caused by Rhetorical Question Blunder ...
  • How did V simulate a heavily-guarded prison for Evie all by himself, especially since she wasn't blindfolded when led around? Surely she must have noticed a stunning dearth of guards.
    • Considering V's a bit of a master of theatrical misdirection and stage illusion...he could probably pull it off. Hell, I've seen David Copperfield materialize a car ABOVE an audience member's head. The guy was under the cloth where the trick would have taken place and HE was taken by surprise. Never under estimate the power of suggestion

Janitor:Super-radical cut, here. All the "examples" were essentially It Just Bugs Me! natter, so I got bold and pulled 'em out.

PANTS: For real? If you have objections to specific entries, then give the people who have taken time to write up these examples some consideration and take some time to point out your objections. Removing the whole thing is just too much; its downright lazy, and kinda assy. I am putting it all back, if you got a problem take it point by point.

Janitor: How many separate times can a person write that we don't want natter before having to admit that no one is getting it? The people doing the nattering are the inconsiderate ones.

PANTS: Yes the natter is inconsiderate, but the point is that every single example is not natter. Furthermore, if you strike down all the entries, they will come back, only stronger. Do you plan on coming through here and giving the page an enema every few months? I know the natter is annoying, but you can't delete everyone's entries to purge the natter. Its rude to the people who have put in good examples, and it doesn't specifically discourage the natter itself. Because everyone will decide that of course MY entry wasn't natter, right? It was all those other posts. Finally, what is the purpose of this wiki. Do you really want to cancel class for the semester because certain students keep talking during your lecture? It just seems at cross purposes with what we are trying to do here.

Charred Knight: Janitor can I ask you a question? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU? That's not bold, thats a dictatorship. You just decided that you didn't like Fridge Logic and decided to delete the whole thing to prove a point. The problem is that you didn't prove a point, you just look like a complete douchebag because of it. If you want Fride Logic deleted put it up on YKTTW and see what happens. Just don't decide your are the leader of TVtropes and only your opinion matters.
  • In the season one finale of Heroes, when Peter was having his Super-Power Meltdown and was at risk of vaporizing New York City, why didn't he just fly away? Why did Nathan have to fly in and do it? Fan Wank tries to justify it by saying he was "too unstable" and "couldn't think clearly." Word of God tells fans point-blank that "you weren't supposed to think about that. Just enjoy Nathan's heroics." It's as if creator Tim Kring was saying "Dammit, viewers are supposed to be morons!"

Ophicius: It's actually mentioned on the show ("Four Months Ago") that Peter was using all of his concentration to not explode, and so couldn't risk trying to fly away on his own. I always thought that piece of dialogue was a bit forced - I'm sure the writers put it in specifically to stop people asking this question!

cg12345: Sorry to gripe, but why was the Iron Man section nuked?

  • The Variety review for the Iron Man film offers this point, given that the suit can fly from America to Afghanistan and back: "Only the snide will wonder why he doesn't stop off in Iraq on the way home to put things in order there."
    • "The snide" (read: the reviewers) Did Not Do The Research. It's one thing to break a stalemate in a very small operational area. It's quite another to go mess around with the strategic dynamics of a whole country, basically blasting all of CENTCOM's working data to scrap. It would've done more harm than good. Also, IM was on a limited mission, the goal of which was the destruction of the Stark Weaponry, and he did.
  • Another moment of Fridge Logic: Tony's press conference, where he announces that he's shutting down Stark Industries' Weapons Research division. Stark Industries is a weapons research company. Where is his income coming from now? And didn't he just put thousands of people out of work and use their pensions to dick around in his masion making power suits? Obadiah's concerns seem slightly more reasonable if you think about it.
    • When he makes this press conference, despite his best efforts at appearing otherwise, Tony's clearly suffering from his experiences and isn't in the right frame of mind, and Pepper later calls on him on the obsessiveness of his single-minded quest. For all that it's a ploy of Stane's to oust Tony, Tony probably is suffering from PTSD.

Janitor: Pulling still more natter from this article...

  • Tobias from Arrested Development has a box of cutoff jeans, a pair of which, due to neurosis, he always wears - always. So...if he can't take them off, even in the shower... why does he have more than one pair?
    • This isn't necessarily true. It's only stated that he can never be naked, not that he specifically has to always wear the cut-off jeans. He could be wearing something else when he takes one pair off and puts another on.
      • Logically, he would be naked while changing clothes.
      • Not if he changed it piece by piece - he could be wearing a shirt without any shorts but not be naked. Arguing semantics based around nudity...really, is there a better use for the internet?

Hey! Maybe we could have Discussion pages, where this sort of thing could go on!

Kevin: I miss the long list of Fridge Logic stuff in the article. :(

Janitor: The stuff right above your message?

So, I'm confused. What was the point of moving everything here from the real article?

Charred Knight: Premiere Janitor has named himself the Lord of Tv Tropes, and has decided that only his opinion matters.

  • 1) Herself.
    2) It was Gus who did the naming, I'm pretty sure.
    3) If memory serves, this decision was already made once last year, but was wiped out by The Great Crash.

Charred Knight: I don't know any female dictators so I don't know what to call Janitor now. Premiere is fine. I made a YKTTW for this issue myself. Let's see what happens, and if we should delete this page or not. Mr Death: You know, mentioning that the guy who runs the place sanctioned it would have cleared things up a bit. Just saying, next time you cut out something that big, mention explicitly "The guy who runs this place said to do this," and people won't complain as much.

Shoebox: Seems like there's a significant - and easily monitorable - difference between 'this is an obvious plothole' and 'this is something this one particular troper can't figure out'. I'd support that...but just up and removing basically the entire article because it's too hard (or something) to sort it out is in fact wholly disrespectful to the folks who constructed it.

Cassius335: I agree. TV Tropes is not Wikipedia. Ok, trim the excess, but to throw out all the examples is madness.

PANTS: I made my opinions about this know upthread. But yeah, lets sort it out on YKTTW. And to be honest, I don't care what the person who started the site thinks, they do not own this content, and thank heavens there is no DRM here. So why are the examples not back already.

6_Qubed: I've come onto the Fridge Logic site looking for examples of honest to blimey fridge logic, only to find that some self-appointed janitor has decided in his/her/it's INFINITE WISDOM to take them all down from the front page. Umm, Janitor? FUCK YOU. FUCK YOU RIGHT THE FUCK TO HELL. What's the point of an examples section if there are no examples? Hey, THERE'S some fucking fridge logic for you! Oh, wait, I figured it out before I even got up. YOU'RE JUST A GODDAMNED TOOL. Here's the trope that defines your sorry ass; “Stop Having Fun” Guy. Please die. Or go away. Whichever's easier on you.

EDIT: Hehehehe... After coming back in to edit, of all things, my name, I decided to go ahead and, uh, "edit" all of Janitor's comments. OH, SWEET DELICIOUS IRONY, THY NAME IS QUBE!!!

That's right, ladies... I am delicious.

Walter Flagg: I reverted Qubed's changes to their previous message, and would just like to mention to those who don't realize, Janitor is one of the founders of this site. At least I think she is. In any case, I've got plenty of free time, and will continue to revert any changes Qubed may make until either he gives up, or I am proved wrong in my idea that Janitor is one of the founders. Also, for anyone who hasn't realized it yet, all or most of the examples are some 200 lines from here. So stop your bitching, the page isn't gone, it's just being slowly transferred to it's proper location. EDIT: Oh, and Qubed, it's not ironic that you changed her comments. Irony would be if you just deleted them.

Charred Knight: Than edit the proper location to BE FOR FRIDGE LOGIC, AND NOT A GLORIFIED FORUM. It Just Bugs Me! are simply forums for questions about shows, and hardly have any actual Fridge Logic in them. I made a topic about this but its gone where I compared It Just Bugs Me! to the Hello Kitty Shoulder Messager that was sold in America as a dildo (most likely because I said some inappropiate words for minor). Both where intended for something they where not used for. If I want to see Fridge Logic I have to dig through several pages for it. We basically have an entire page dedicated to people arguing about the Avatar Finale. If people would actually look for themselves, they would see that It Just Bugs Me! is an even worse mess than Discontinuity was before me, and a few others did some massive cleaning, and better defining. It Just Bugs Me! needs to be cleaned, to be better defined, so it can be used for its proper case. Also in hind sight most series don't actually need an entire page dedicated to Fridge Logic, it was a horrible idea, and the person who made it should feel ashamed for being stupid.

Tanto: It wasn't the original idea. It Just Bugs Me! was originally one page, but it had to be split up because it was destroying the server. (If you think wading through it is difficult now, try it that way.)

The problem with It Just Bugs Me! is that it has no limitations; inherently, it's just "whatever someone wants to talk about". (Same problem with all the Subjective Tropes, really, but we've been over that...) Cleaning it up is a fine idea, but where do you start? The idea for the page boils down to "random discussion", and if you delete some stuff but leave others, people are going to bitch.

Frankly, I think we need more articles where we say: "Hell with it — there are too many examples to count, and everyone's got a different one. No examples on this page." Dis Continuity, in particular, seems like it could use that treatment, as could all the Crowning Moments.

Fast Eddie: If we could get a better handle on why people are resistant to taking this sort of discussion to the forums, it would be helpful. IJBM was the thing that made us think it would be a good idea to install the forum software in the first place. I think the fact that discussion occurs in these entries is evidence that people want a place where discussion can take place.

Charred Knight: If it was for Fridge Logic, just dump the crap that has nothing to do with Fridge Logic. If it wasn't for Fridge Logic than bring the examples back. We don't need a forum for each individual show. We shouldn't make it any harder than it already is. Also I have been behind the deletion for Discontinuity, and CMOA for a while now. In fact I keep trying to break CMOA by trying to pit one fandom against another fandom until the inevitable penis measuring begans, it hasn't worked yet.

Fast Eddie Not at all sure that strategy makes any sense. Curing trouble doesn't come from making trouble. Seems like you could just stay away from these "subjective" tropes, because they don't suit you.

Charred Knight: The fact that over a month ago I posted "don't post Fridge Logic on It Just Bugs Me! since nobody else" and only a few days ago it was deleted. A FUCKING MONTH! I expected it to be gone a week! That tells me that no one reads itthis page, the only use for this page is so that when we pot hole the damn thing its turns up blue. The reason people don't use the forums much is that its an extra two minutes to sign up for them. Its much easier to make complaints in Discussion.

Charred Knight: I also deleted all the examples from the Discussion, I have no idea why Janitor put them here, it took up way to much room. I consider this thing closed. Its a horrible page so why I keep thinking about it I don't know, I think its because I liked the idea, only for Janitor to ruin the whole thing up for no reason (in my opinion of course).

Fast Eddie: flexes in defence of Janitor Then relaxes. Yeah, no reason to keep all that junk. She was probably keeping that stuff for diplomatic reasons. That's the word, right? "Diplomatic?" It's a word off in that part of the English dictionary that is strange to me.

Charred Knight: Please calm down, its just my opinion that Janitor ruined this page, its nothing personal, its just an opinion. I consider lying to someone to be ruder than insulting someone, for an example I hate when someone tells me that they think I did a good job when I know I fucked up. I was outvoted, and I accept that. I see why she did kept the examples but the fact remains that it should have been deleted months ago instead of clogging up the Discussion page. I edited my previous entry to make it less insulting to Janitor.

Kilyle: This much anger... yow. (considers) I think we need multiple places for discussion of topics that clearly pick up a lot of discussion. The forums serve in some capacity, but they don't cover everything; in particular, it's easy to scan one page but difficult to hunt through a giant forum discussion page by page trying to find that example you know is there. Also, the wiki pages have a certain level of organization that pure discussion lacks - and, believe it or not, even a level of "nah, my comment doesn't need to be here" that the forums don't have. The wiki pages offer a distinctly different reading experience.

So for Fridge Logic and It Just Bugs Me! and the Crowning Moments and such, I am so in favor of just plain pages, like the rest of the wiki, that allow people to add points just like the rest of the wiki. If you guys still want to say they're distinct from the more objective sides of the wiki, go ahead and put them in a separate area, like It Just Bugs Me! already is. I think it's a useful, even vital mission of this site to point out to writers those elements, those moments, that make the audience really take notice, good or bad. That's what the Crowning Moments pages do. A writer can look through and see the moments that really stand out for the audience even years after they saw the movie or read the book, and therefore that writer can try to make similar elements that attract similar attention from the audience. And avoid those things that end up in Fridge Logic and It Just Bugs Me. I'd say, push these pages off to their own little homes somewhere on the wiki, and then quit worrying about trying to police them so much. They're obviously a whole 'nother creature, compared to the objective tropes.

An in-media example: Nodwick's parody of Highlander, after Yaeger steals immortality (with a magic item), he goes to take the "jackpot" and when the two remaining immortals team up on the "usurper", his large spiked shoulder pads which he always wears, block their attempts to decapitate him, and one of them says: "Now why did none of us ever thinkto wear something like that?"

Ronnie: I very nearly had a moment of this in a piece of art I was working on. Every time you see Danielle in the DP canon, she has her hair tied in a ponytail. In a pic I was drawing for a story that takes place mere moments after she emerged from the cloning tank, I started doing that out of habit, and then went, "Wait a minute... Her hair wouldn't be naturally like that!" and went with the hair being down.
Medinoc: Just to note it was referenced in this The B-Movie Comic rant, as an "icebox moment".
Trisar: Does the sudden realization that, in the movie version of Matilda, Matilda's parents were fleeing the FBI by running away to Guam (a US territory) count as Fridge Logic, What An Idiot, or Did Not Do The Research?
Adrenfreak: This is as bad as what someone did to the Squick page. Why exactly are you people worried about wasting the electronic paper of the wiki? I never thought I'd have to do the same thing here I do at Wikipedia when I find an article I like that explains things or leads me to interesting things - Save it off in my "Rescued Wiki Pages". This site is about examples and leading people to new media based on those examples. If that wasn't the original point of the site.... time to start over?
The Great Matt: I once witnessed my mom experiencing Fridge Logic from the movie The Day the Earth Stood Still (the Keanu Reeves remake). "Why would the aliens take away our electricity, food, and shelter in an attempt to restart the population? Humankind started with just a few people (depending on what you believe in theologically). We wouldn't survive without electricity, food, and shelter because we have a huge population with little resources."
Robin Zimm: Removed from the Quotes page:

Faye, now that we're underwater, there's something I want to get off my chest. I am a huge fan of boy bands. I have not said this before, and even though I may deny it in the future, or even in the past, I say now and forever that I love all boy bands. All of them. I can never take this back.

vic5014: I remember leaving the theater after watching Let the Right One In (the Swedish vampire movie) thinking that it was a great film, largely because its like the anti-Twilight. it wasn't until I read a review for another foreign-language vampire film (Thirst, if you care), that I realized it was a deliberate deconstruction of vampire movies in general and the teen vampire movie genre in particular and that my reaction was exactly what the film was hoping for.

Dr Hommonculus: Is this article fridge logic for asking for no examples, but including them in the description?

Janitor: Yes. We figured out after the initial the entry that so many examples deserved their own home.

There's no advertising section, and I definitely spotted a bit of Fridge Logic in one ad. Serious too. There's this series of Sprite commercials, you may remember? "Image is nothing, thirst is everything. Obey your thirst." Sure i'm not gonna be one of those fools who's been taken in by all those celebrity endorsements and other image tricks, I'll go buy some Sprite instead. Wait a minute... They are trying to get me to prove I'm not fooled by image tricks by ignoring all of the other ones and buying Sprite instead. Isn't that also an image trick? Screw that, I'll just buy whatever the heck i want, which sure isn't Sprite at this time.

Pteryx: Fast Eddie, why'd you remove the image? How did it not illustrate the trope?

Fast Eddie: By not doing so. How do you think it did illustrate the trope?

Pteryx: By showing an example of something that Fridge Logic dictates really ought to happen.

Reginald Likes Little Grills: This page is not a trope. It's a page about a phenomenom that occurs when you stupid things seriously! Then why is it Here, on the normal trope wiki? The wiki which is meant for TROPES?