Troperville

Tools

What's Happening

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Working Title: Forced To Keep Going: From YKTTW


Master_Prichter: I heard that's what happened with The Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy. Can anyonne confirm?
  • Arutema: I've heard he wanted to go back to TV/radio after the 3rd book, but can't find confirmation from anything official-looking enough.

Lord Seth: How exactly are they "forced" to keep going? True, I'm sure they have contracts, but once they're up, they can call it quits if they really want to. How exactly are they FORCED to keep it going?

Ununnilium: "Once they're up" is part of it. These things generally last either a set number of years or a set number of works. Another is the "you won't work in this town again" thing. As well, not all of these are "forced", but even "heavy persuasion" can have this effect.

Sikon: I disagree about The Matrix and Pirates of the Caribbean.

That Other 1 Dude: I have to agree. We already have an article about sequels of supposedly inferior quality. This page is about a franchise being dragged on longer than it's creator wishes it would. I'm sure the Wachowski Brothers didn't want the series to end with one film that didn't get anywhere, and I doubt the makers of Pirates of the Caribbean had any objections. They sure as hell aren't Self Explanatory

Ununnilium: Indeed, a lot of these are really vague on the "original creator didn't want to continue but was forced to" point. If they don't have it, they shouldn't be in here. Cutting especially egregious examples, nearly all of which are Sequelitis instead:
  • According to many readers, Redwall fell into this category at some point, although the exact time of franchise living death is disputed. At some point the One Sided Battle, Plot Armor, and Only Smart People May Pass overuse pulled the series down. Political Correctness Gone Mad also involved removing any and all references to religion, including trying to change a church to a random house. Despite the fact that churchmice lived there. All this, and yet the series is still centered around an abbey.
  • The Wheel of Time was originally intended to be a trilogy, but its success prompted the author and publisher to keep going for about nine more books, a prequel, and a Universe Guide. The quality has been undeniably falling since around book six, though some fans put the crappiness earlier.
  • The Xanth series (as of this edit: 29 novels and counting). Like Redwall, the actual point of decay is disputed. Some say everything after the original trilogy. Some (this editor included) say it's when the puns officially took over - or at least when Piers Anthony started openly soliciting them from his readers. Others say it was post Demons Don't Dream (Which was based on the Xanth PC game) which was a marked departure from formula that Anthony did nothing with (save a couple of later cameos by the game characters in two other books). Still others say it was when the Adult Conspiracy went from throwaway gag to plot-shaping law. EVERYONE agrees, however, that Xanth has gone on at least a dozen books too long.
    • This troper feels that it would be criminal to not mention another good indication of when the series had finally gone to pot: when the characters would stop and recount the entire story to date to any new character they met, no matter how brief the meeting was going to be or if the character had even asked. Consider that Anthony has repeatedly mentioned having a word count he has to meet for the novels, and the reason for this becomes fairly obvious.
    • This troper is more convinced that when it became ever more obvious that he was pretty much doing find/replace on the same damn plot. Boy, girl, quest, happily ever after.
  • The Sword of Truth novels are a good candidate for this. While it was never specifically stated for how long Terry Goodkind wanted it to continue, it's obvious to anyone reading past the first book that it should have ended long before it did.
  • Mega Man in general, but particularly the Mega Man X series, which was written to end with Mega Man X5. Capcom milked the franchise for four more games, contradicting the set up of the direct sequel series Mega Man Zero.
    • This, ironically, from the same Capcom that almost forcibly ended the series with the very first game way back on the NES.
    • Your Mileage May Vary here; in this troper's experience, the sentiment that Mega Man has run dry usually comes from people who don't actually like the games that much, but just know how many there are.
  • And speaking of Capcom, Street Fighter. Just...Street Fighter. And Street Fighter Alpha. And so on....
    • In fact just about every property Capcom thinks they can spin a new successful franchise out of. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney may be heading down this direction.
  • Final Fantasy avoids this only because Final Fantasy games have little or no connection to each other and mean basically "This game is part of Square's main franchise" and "Cid and the Chocobos will be showing up in a minute."
  • Arguably, the Crash Bandicoot franchise. The first four games were consistently good, but then the original developers decided to moved on and create Jak and Daxter on the PS2, and left the Crash franchise for the publisher to pass around to different developers, with sometimes less than stellar results.
  • Resident Evil suffered from this back when it still tried to be Survival Horror. After so many years of accidents in 1998, it jumped 6 years into the future with a generic Save The President's daughter story that's very, very loosely connected to the series, but didn't really explain anything about what happened during the jump. Resident Evil 5 seems to be continuing this direction.
  • Sonic the Hedgehog, see Sonic Syndrome.

Charred Knight: Megaman X is an example. The original creator wanted to end it, and even included a setup, move on to Megaman Zero instead, but Capcom kept it going.

Night Stalker: What about when a franchise is forced to continue, a pale shadow of it's original self, after the death of the original creator? That would seem to fit this trope too.

Ununnilium:
  • In fact, Bond, James Bond even died at the end of the book series.
    • This troper is confused by the above comment, as the book series is still ongoing in the hands of various writers who took over after the author died, and Bond is obviously still alive in them. Also, he'd say that the last Pierce Brosnan movie, Die Another Day, did not fall into this trap as Pierce Brosnan was still committed to the role at the time. However, Connery's last Bond film, Diamonds Are Forever (and to a lesser extent Moore's finale, A View to a Kill) are definite examples.

Conversation in the Main Page.


Caswin: Confused about the "religion" one. Last I checked, religions are generally made to last. How are most religions "technically" Franchise Zombies?

nobody: Remove it, then. Most likely just one troper's Take That.

nobody: About this
  • The creator of the comic, Akira Toriyama, wanted to stop at several points (originally around the Frieza arc), but his editor wanted to take advantage of its extraordinary success worldwide and told him to keep going.

It wasn't up to the editor to decide anything. The popularity of Dragonball at that point was far bigger than just the publishing department of Shounen Jump. According to the Japanese wiki, major companies like Fuji television and Bandai all had to be consulted before any major changes were made to the series, it was that big a cash cow.

"...I can't help wondering if this is some kind of cry for help. 'Please!' go the Devil May Cry team, 'Please stop buying these games so we can do something else! We have totally run out of ideas! I spent the last six months rendering the glisten playing off the greasy exposed breasts of some athletic hip-cocking slut and now I want to kill myself!'"
Ben 'Yahtzee' Croshaw, on Devil May Cry 4

Luc: I've readded the above quote; if there's any objection (besides the whole "It's Yahtzee, it therefore sucks" thing) to it's being the opening quote, I'd like to hear it.

Ununnilium: It's Yahtzee, therefore it's overexposed? But I suppose it's at least appropriate. I don't really get the current quote, though.

Roland: One of the biggest problems with that quote is simple: it doesn't apply to the game it describes in any respect. Almost every reviewer aside from Yahtzee (whose criticisms really boiled down to "I hate the backtracking," "too much combat"" (in a Devil May Cry game?!), "incoherent story" (not really) and "the heroes look too girly" (which they really don't), all very subjective save the first one. lavished praise on Devil May Cry 4- the standard grade was 8.5-9 and the only problems generally criticized were the backtracking. The quote we use should really be actually, you know, applicable beyond a particular, funny but extremely biased reviewer who is blatantly a case of Accentuate the Negative towards...well...everything that isn't his favorite genre.

Insanity Prelude: I like Zero Punctuation, don't get me wrong, but... Roland's right, it may be a good description of a Franchise Zombie but applying it to something that's clearly not kind of muddles the point. And yeah, too much combat in a DMC game? Isn't kicking lots of ass in totally awesome ways kind of the point? :)

... Now that I think about it, Dante's probably the least girly-looking White-Haired Pretty Boy I can think of.

Twin Bird: Did either of you watch the review?! He said nothing about "too much combat." Exact quote: "the combat is all I can recommmend." Not that it's an appropriate page quote, but...what? I don't recall anything about incoherent story, either...just backtracking and Narm, including the androgyny. Really, sometimes I almost get the feeling This Wiki has it out for Yahtzee...

None of this has any relevance whatsoever. Carry on.

Ununnilium: Real Life
  • Happens on TV shows with actors; become a well-known and liked character and you'll be playing them for years.
    • Of course, when it happens to actors, it's generally known as Typecasting.

Exactly.
That Other 1 Dude: Removed
  • Alan Moore now fights every adaptation tooth and nail to avoid his works ending up this way, and because he feels no one has ever adapted his work faithfully.
    • Solid Snake wrote a Watchmen screenplay Moore lavished praise on. Las Vegas is probably taking bets on how long that will last.
    • Moore apparently liked the Justice League episode adapted from his comic "For The Man Who Has Everything", but the only real change there was the removal of Robin.
      • And, you know, changing the whole feeling and the Aesop. Nothing major.

That really doesn't have anything to do with this trope. Though I didn't know that David Hayter was a writer.
Trogga: Is this really a Subjective Trope?

Kizor: Not in the least. Whether or not something is a Franchise Zombie does not depend on individual tropers' interpretations, nor is it even affected. Removed. Please voice your opinions on this matter on this page, since I get the feeling that tropers are talking past each other on the whole subjectivity thing.

Luc: I've added in a paragraph explaining that this can be subjective, in the cases where the line between this and a Cash Cow Franchise blur together.
Grev: Star Trek TOS is most decidedly not an example of this trope. In fact, anything that the executives want to cancel is not an example of this trope. The Trek franchise as a whole may be an example, but not TOS.
That Other 1 Dude: OK, people are once again just using this page to describe what they think are franchises that should have ended instead of ones where the creator wanted to ended but wasn't allowed. I feel like I need to write another one of those disclaimer that are BOLD AND IN CAPS.
Ganondorfdude11:67.159.41.120, stop cutlisting this. There is dispute over the "true" definition of this trope, but it isn't just "pointless complaining" as you seem to think it is.
Ninja Vitis: The entry for Urusei Yatsura seems completely wrong and probably doesn't belong here (though I confess to not having all the facts to hand). As I recall, Takahashi never had any intention or desire to bring UY to an and. She did, however, want to do Ranma 1/2 more, and she (successfully) put UY aside to do so, with the condition that if Ranma failed, she'd resume UY. Ranma succeeded and UY ended, or more accurately, stopped with no ending. I don't recall a single thing in any of the movies about "encouraging the fans to let it go" (other than the last 2 movies being really, really bad). In fact, the message from the movies is that "they'll carry on like this forever."