Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Smapti: I cut the V For Vendetta example; while Sutler IS titled "High Chancellor", and he IS evil, he doesn't fit the trope as he is the head of state himself and not an aide. If the monarchy still exists in the film universe, the viewer is not made aware of it. Additionally, in the book the equivalent character's title was simply "The Leader", and the monarchy was very much extinct.

ralphmerridew: How does the chancellor from R. L. Asprin's Myth series classify? Averted? He competed with the general for influence over the King, but neither of them ever acted (to my memory) evilly
Jolanda: If the etymology of Chancellor is to blame for the perception, then the same should apply to "minister", which means "servant" in Latin...
thatother1dude: does anyone remember the name of the guy from 8-Bit Theater that parodied this concept to a ridiculous degree?

Jordan: I'm curious what the origin of this trope is, in that I really don't hink that the wazir/vizzier in the actually Arabian Nights were generally evil. Haman in the Purim story is a perfect match, but I'm not sure whehter or not that example influenced the trope.

Robert: Removed the British Shadow Chancellor, who is neither a chancellor nor evil. The shadow chancellor, who is appointed by the leader of the opposition, can sit on the opposition front bench and gets to make the first reply to the Chancellor's Commons speeches, but he holds no real political power. A modern British evil chancellor-equivalent would be either the deputy prime minister or, more likely, the cabinet secretary (Sir Humphrey's final position).
Celinra: Should this be here? Regarding Jafar from Disney's Aladdin, someone said:
We went over this already. His portrayal in the Disneyfication of the story is a combination of Historical Villain Upgrade and Did Not Do The Research. seems to me that, regardless of his original portrayal, his Disney version does fit the trope, so this is irrelevant.
Grimace: Who is that in the page image? It links to Star Wars, but maybe a page quote for the less SW-savvy of us?
  • Narvi: It's Chancellor Palpatine. I'd have gone with a promotional image from the prequels myself.

Lady Jafaria: Took Saladin out. Anyone who thinks he was an evil vizier can GTFO. I know from evil viziers, and he wasn't one.
Could it be, that this trope is totally overflooded with examples that do not _in_the_least_ fit to the description "second guy in a nation is a baddie" and instead fix themselves on the "chancellor" bit of any given characters name or title? Palpatine itself e.g. should be the perfect example for "president evil" as he simply IS the head of state and there even is a scene in the third prequel movie where they discover that their head of state is the big bad overlord and see the problem with this. I can not recognize for which person Mr Palpatine would be the second-in-command and trying to overthrow him, can you?