This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
- Note: The trope title was changed between the conclusion of the discussion and the present time.
Paul A: I'm not keen about this "This could be the conclusion to a story or the set up" business, which seems to me to be mashing two different things together. The discussion was only about episodes that end with everyone but the regulars dead.
Seth: If the phrasing bothers you then you can change it. The basic set up for this trope is that everyone except the main characters die. It can be used in both situations. The Red Dwarf way where it sets up the series premise or the Doctor Who way where it is used as an excuse to emote or as a source of tragedy before the ending. It is a Narrative Device, a tool not a whole plot in of itself.
Paul A: It's not the phrasing I object to, it's the idea behind it. "The story that starts with everyone but the regulars dying" and "The story that ends with everyone but the regulars dead" are, in my view, two separate things and trying to present them together is only going to lead to confusion.
Robert: I agree. In one case the regulars have to live with the death of everyone they knew; in the other the dead are strangers and the cast move on to the next adventure with barely a second glance. This is two different tropes.
Seth: I have expanded the entry a little. I really think as a plot point/device this can stand as a single lumped trope though.
If you do want a split then the two tropes would be:
1- Everyone they know or are friends with have died and the main characters are forced to adjust. Everybody's Dead, Dave
2- A group of travelers/adventurers fail a group. They all die but the main characters walk away unscathed to adventure again. Too Bad Your All Dead?
1 would be Hitchikers, Red Dwarf and Hellsing. 2 would be Doctor who and maybe Odysseus (That one might fit both tropes). The Xenosaga example isn't either of these tropes.
Paul A: And that Xenosaga example seems more like Mike Nelson, Destroyer of Worlds. It certainly isn't Everybody's Dead, Dave if only half of them are dead.
Paul A: And if everyone but the regulars gets killed at the start of Hellsing, who are they fighting for the rest of the series?
Seth: This trope doesnt mean end of all life/end of world. Only that of a group of people be it five million or ten. Only the main character survives.
Silent Hunter: Nice to see someone's put this into effect. I forgot about it. Sorry. Possible suggestion for the opposite of this: Just This Once Everybody Lives.
Paul A: It's been implemented as Everybody Lives.
Silent Hunter: Yeah, I implemented it.
Kilyle: Does this include most horror/thriller films (where by the end of the tale everyone but the main couple is dead), or is that a different trope? I recall a group trying to escape a futuristic prison that implanted them with explosive devices that would kill them if they crossed a certain area, and about halfway through the cast I realized that everyone but the main two were going to die. I decided at that point that I hated this kind of film, because it gets you attached to quirky characters (always more interesting than the protagonist) and you know they're never gonna make it out.
Oh, and someone please add a line about the short-lived sitcom Whoops (not sure on official spelling).
Removed on the grounds that it's actually a Kill Em All:
- At the end of Mostly Harmless, most of the main characters and all possible Earths are completely obliterated from all possible timelines. Permanently.
Nevrmore: "The trope title comes from Red Dwarf"??? Seriously? Is this guy being serious??
HAL 9000 weeps for you.
Bring The Noise: Hal never put in the effort Holly did to get the message across...
Also, cut:
- This is how Homer's The Odyssey ends: not only has Odysseus' entire Ithacan fleet gotten themselves killed over the course of poem, but every eligible bachelor in Ithaca who was trying to marry Penelope is slaughtered, as are all of Penelope's maids (who slept with the suitors.) The town of Ithaca actually rises against King Odysseus saying that he killed two generations of their sons. But at least Odysseus and Penelope are together.
Duplication
Fast Eddie Removed hotlinked image and cut down openiing quote. Please see Administrative Policy.
The text of Hamlet is very explicit that Fortinbras arrived to pay his respects after returning from fighting the Poles. There is nothing in the text about Fortinbras conquering Denmark. Some directors, Branagh probably being the best known, have re-interpreted the story with Fortinbras as conqueror, but that's not how Shakespeare wrote it. Incidentally, I vastly prefer it the way Shakespeare wrote it, because it renders the whole play rather pointless if Fortinbras was going to show and kill everyone in five minutes anyway.
