This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
New items go at the bottom
Scotty Quick: Hey, is there any reason to say that Devin Grayson picked that name herself? I mean, geez, she picked it long before even hearing of Batman, let alone Dick Grayson.
Some Guy: Removed the third paragraph. I can't figure out what point it was trying to make. "Men only get raped by women because society makes them too scared to hurt women"? Did our society eliminate all violence against women while I wasn't paying attention? I mean, sure, I get the point, and it's a contributing factor, but it sounded like men could easily solve the problem of rape if only they weren't so scared of hurting their rapists. Not to mention the fact that this spurious attitude doesn't show up in the examples at all- almost all of them involve women who rape men in such a way that they can't resist.
Anonymous: I just wanted to add that the Rush Hour XXX example made me giggle like crazy because "This would not fly if the genders were switched" was the second thing I thought while reading it. The first thing I thought is not meant for polite conversation. Also, another good Hentai example would be Secret Plot, where half the time the male characters are being coerced or otherwise taken advantage of by the teachers, especially the Wholesome Crossdresser in Secret Plot Deep.
Chocolatepot: I know this is more informal than Wikipedia, of course, and I love it that way, but is the comment at the end of the hentai thread really necessary? It doesn't contain any examples, just lets us know that a troper likes that trope. Okay.
Caswin: I'm inclined to agree on this one. Too Much Information.
- This (male) troper actually maintains a collection of this material. It's something of a deliberately acquired fetish; I dislike fantasies that have me hurting someone else, and the premise virtually guarantees that the female(s) will have some measure of actual characterization.
FurrySaint: Any chance of getting the examples sorted out into genres? There's enough different ones to do that now, I think.
Johnny E: Anyone else think this needs a snappier title?
Runespoor: cutting this:
- Nightwing Issue #93 in which Tarantula had shot and supposedly killed a villain that threatened Nightwing then went to find the rather shaken hero, and proceeded to have sex with him, even though he was whispering "No" and "Get away from me", they were still treated like an item until near the run of Devin Grayson's run. Several readers disagreed with the unspoken idea that it was sex to help pull Dick together and treated it like outright rape, or at the least taking advantage of someone who is not completely in his right mind.
- Well, considering that Devin Grayson (yes, she picked the name herself) is basically what happens when you let the worst sort of fan actually work in the industry, and that it's pretty obvious who Tarantula is supposed to be, then you understand why the phrase "Devin Grayson raped Nightwing" has multiple meanings.
- Just how pervasive this trope is shows in the fact that Gail Simone, the woman who helped bring the whole Stuffed into the Fridge thing as heinous into the public consciousness, is apparently good friends with Devin Grayson and will show up on internet forums to defend her. Double Standard much?
- According to Ms Grayson, it wasn't rape, it was "unconsentual sex". Apparently there is a difference.
Seriously, check the relevant issues. At the end of issue 93, Dick is thinking "It doesn't stop. It's never going to stop." And then, in the following issues he's a wreck. He can barely stand, barely fight, and half the time when he's speaking it makes no sense.
Now, Tarantula herself completely doesn't realize that she has raped him, but Dick's state clearly shows that no, it's not okay. (For the record: how anyone can think that Tarantula is an Author Avatar is beyond me. She's a villain. A Well-Intentioned Extremist at the very best, a Knight Templar, and frankly she's more than a little sociopathic.)
Runespoor7: Okay, I don't want to start an edit war, but please check the issues. Rann, you say Nigthwing and Tarantuale are dating afterwards, but they're not. Tarantula has practically abducted him and they're on a run to nowhere which only ends when Dick receives an urgent call from Bruce asking him back to Gotham, and that's the first time since the rape that he reacts somewhat normally.
I'd post scans if I could figure out how and my computer didn't keep on trying to commit suicide every time I attempt to upload a picture. Check the issues. Dick's last thoughts at the end of issue #93 are "It's never gonna stop... never gonna stop... never..." In the next issue, he's downright delirious. It can't possibly be clearer that what happened is not okay.
Runespoor7: I've put together 20 scans from the 3 issues leading up to and following the rape. Issues #94 and #95 form the arc titled Road to nowhere. Here.
Nornagest: Cut the following:
- (This is because female sexual aggression and dominance, is a common male fantasy— which, unlike male-on-female rape, is also psychologically denied as a possible reality; and many ignore that fact that fantasy, unlike reality, is always under the control of the fantasizer, and therefore they tend to confuse fantasy with reality.)
Close to incoherent and comes off as something akin to a Justifying Edit. The actual content is covered elsewhere.
Also this:
...which seems to be the orphaned punchline to a joke. I've no idea what it was doing in the middle of the examples.
Restored Nightwings latest rape as even though there were some consiquences aftererds the fact he continued to work with her and that she was not punished deffinetly speek to this troop
Removed:
- Note that in an even later episode, Quagmire rapes Marge Simpson— but who ends up liking it so much, that she does it later with him in her bedroom— and when caught by the rest of the Simpson family, Quagmire ends up shooting every one of them dead— even baby Maggie. "Giggity giggity giggity!"
Because it's a man raping a woman and thus not this trope, fitting Rape Is Love or Its Not Rape If You Enjoyed It. It also makes me want to murder Seth Mc Farlane, but that's beside the point.
Morgantuous Thef: Does anyone else find some of these trope examples to be depreciating of actual rape, and thus of the ironically depreciating of the trope itself? I mean, the Doctor Who example where the Doctor's hand is forced into a cloning machine being compared with the EXTREMELY more violent and traumatizing act of rape? Come on. And this seems to be a common example listed on this page, and they certainly don't belong here. This isn't to say that some of these examples don't fit this trope, and belong here (they absolutely do), but I think ones in which DNA is stolen through means other than forced sexual acts belong under another trope entirely. Stealing of DNA is often treated as a symbolic rape, as the connection between transmission of DNA and sexual activity is obvious, but it is not rape in many of the examples listed here (especially the Sci-Fi ones which rely on less invasive and traumatizing events/technologies to obtain that DNA). For this reason I think a number of the trope examples are directly at odds with the stated topic of this trope. Perhaps we can create a new trope associated with the stealing of DNA through other means to remedy this (as it seems to be a common enough trope to have its own page), but those things certainly don't belong on this page.
Also, as a post script, I'm unsure if this is where I should be bringing up this issue, but it seemed that the discussion page would be the best place to do so, but if I am erroneous in this conclusion, please let me know.
{Peteman}}: Wasn't this cutlisted for Rape as Comedy?
Black Humor: Yes. And someone cut it. Months after it was supposed to be cut and over the objections of the discussion page that it was a different trope.
Citizen: So... alright then. Fine by me. I'll just put my old image back on here, then.
You mean the Louise and Saito one? It's there, but Janitor keeps deleting the image. Without any explanation. I can understand the Edit Wars in other pages like Deadpan Snarker, but this? Nothing happened, yet Janitor doesn't want any images on the page.
Janitor: We don't want images depicting rape of any kind.
Poody: "...compare the treatment of a man waking up in bed with an ugly woman after a night of getting drunk with the treatment of a woman who sleeps with a man (attractive or otherwise) in a similar situation." Shorten to Coyote Ugly.
