Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

The Death of the Author launched as Death of the Author: From YKTTW

Working Title: Death Of The Author: From YKTTW

Wild-card: I believe we should switch the name of this and Author Existence Failure. While the names would definatly still be a little bit misleading, it wouldn't be as misleading for new Tropers. Before anybdoy says anything, yes I do know new tropers, and I know they are confused by the name. I would also be confused if I had not see the You Know That Thing Where post that we have a link to above.

Rothul: I disagree, Death of the Author, as a legitimate literary term, originating in the Roland Barthes essay of the same name, is well-known and switching the term will only provoke more confusion.

Wild-card: I understand that. But even though it is a liteary term doesn't mean it is exactly well known. I know multiple people who cite confusion of this. I know I probably won't be able to get the name changed directly. But I think a Re-direct would atleast prove very usefull. Pardon the pun but a more Direct Redirect, (I.E.: "Ignoring The Author", "What you say doesn't count", (Hopefully better yet still direct titles then what I am able to come up with here). I think it more likely should be Better Then Canon as it seems to suit the opinion of this trope better, but I think just a simpler less confusing redirect would help stop this confusion and debate.
  • Insofar: It is well known, and it is one of the most widespread literary theories at that. Anyone who's ever taken any kind of lit class would know it.

Tanto: General wiki policy is to use an existing term if one exists. I don't really see the problem here.

Wild-card: It is a very msileading, practically unknown, and like I said up there, just because it is an acedemic term doesn't mean we should use it like this. Afterall, most of our trope names are named because they sound good and are fun and stuff. Throwing a misleading title in just because it happens to be known by the english community doesn't mean everybody knows about it.

Things like Gretzky Has the Ball atleast make as it's about sports, even if you don't know what it is you can tell it's about sports. This title just says, "The author dies". Also, since when does this wiki use acedemic terms to describe Tropes we find in the media. Isn't this entire wiki Just for Fun? At the very least a redirect is neccesary.

Rothul: Whether or not the term is well-known is subjective. As you said, it is well known by the English community to provide for the very situation the trope discusses, and to say it's not appropriate seems as wrong as to say Chekhov's Gun should be renamed to something else, or for that matter e.g. that Sonic Syndrome should be renamed as it is something that only makes sense to video game players. Viewers aren't morons, as they say. As for the fact that it's an academic term, how do we lose anything by having a page for this genuine literary concept, or gain anything by pretending it doesn't exist? Any slight confusion it might cause is balanced for the sake of informativeness and completeness.

Bob: I disapproved of the name in the YKTTW. I changed my mind after discovering that it is the actual name of the literary concept.

Wild-card: I don't like the name, and I know people are apparently really against the idea of not ading a literary term because it is a literary term, (Even though this trope applies to all media. As pointed out in the You Know That Thing Where page and replies of it)so I don't see why this page has to be named so misinformed and I can't seem to find any trope name where we apply an acedemic term to it. I'm against it because it Suffer Newbies Poorly.

I realize I'm not going to get the name changed no matter how much I disagree with it. But all I'm asking for is a more obviously named redirect.

Tokuiten: I'm tempted to strike the part about Tolkien. Why? Because Tolkien would've been happy if Death of the Author were universally accepted. The concept of allegory is incompatible with Death of the Author, since it relies on the author's intent; if everyone believed in Death of the Author, allegory wouldn't exist as a literary concept, and everything would have applicability. Death of the Author does not mean people can assign intent to an author over the author's objections; it means that the author's intent, real or perceived, has no effect on analysis of the story, and allegory is an author's intent (though not Tolkien's). In short, Death of the Author is Watsonian, and allegory is Doylist. I'm waiting before I strike it, however, as I'd like to get some feedback before I do.

Why do people on this wiki continue to quote Umberto Eco? He's not exactly the greatest author out there.