Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Working Title: Backlashed Away: From YKTTW

Name selected for Added Alliterative Appeal.
But, I like Disco.

Ununnilium: Me too, but you have to admit that this is the general perception of it.

Ununnilium: Took Beanie Babies out; they still have a solid if small fanbase, and you can buy them in many places, including my local grocery store. Replaced with pogs, which seemed to completely disappear when their day in the sun was over.

Circeus: Maintaining a fanbase elsewhere (or a small fanbase period IMHO) doesn't mean Deader Than Disco doesn't apply; it just means Germans Love David Hasselhoff is also appliable. Disco actually remained alive in Europe, and strongly influenced later European electronic music styles.

Ununnilium: Even so, I don't think they count. They don't make the kinds of jokes about Beanie Babies that they do about disco — or about pogs.

Document N: Maybe because they're completely forgotten?

  • Final Fantasy VII, just Final Fantasy VII. If you see anyone who "admits" to liking the game now you are still almost guaranteed to see some sort of slam towards it in the process, if you don't you've witnessed some sort of miracle (as this troper will freely admit to loving the game I guess you could say you just did).

No. There are lots of people who whole-heartedly love FF7 and aren't afraid to say it. It's still one of the most popular Final Fantasy games — heck, just look at the Compilation. They don't make stuff like that if it isn't popular.

Mman: I thought that was pretty much what this was about; there are a lot of people who still love something, yet the amount of trolls etc for it has reached such critical mass you could easily think otherwise.

Ununnilium: Nope. It's when something popular eventually gets such a backlash that it gets knocked out of the general public's "things that are good" category permanently.

Mman: Yeah, guess I interpreted it wrong then, considering the inevitable remake will probably be lapped up to the point where it will probably break a record or two.

Tanto: On a similar note, I don't think Chrono Cross belongs here either. Most of the criticisms of it are that it isn't as good as Chrono Trigger (or that it screws up Trigger's plot too much), but I don't think anyone legitimately believes it's an awful game, and it's far from forgotten.

Rebochan: I don't know about that - for starters, while Chrono Trigger has been given worldwide releases in both its SNES and PS 1 port forms, Chrono Cross was released only in Japan and North America, and was regarded as a flop commercially. Recently they announced a Chrono Trigger DS port. Very few people even realized there was a sequel, let alone ever played it. But even people far too young to have played Chrono Trigger when it was new still wanted a piece of the DS version so they could see what all the hype was about.

Also you have to admit that Chrono Cross has a very weak plot. While that might not have been such a problem had it been its own entity, being a sequel to Chrono Trigger really hurt it because it wasn't even remotely close to Chrono Trigger, bordering on Sequel In Name Only. At the time of release, it was praised anyway for its gameplay mechanics and technical achievements, as well as being a fun game in its own right, but today it's only remember as a bad sequel to one of the greatest games of all time because its faults are a lot more apparent. I think it belongs here because it fits the trope to a T - once popular and marvelled over, now largely forgotten or derided.

Dalantia: So which is it? Either it was popular and outstanding, and slipped into obscurity (which means that it's -obscure-, not hated, like this trope seems to imply), or it flopped and was unexposed, with a small fanbase then, and a small fanbase now?

Me, I don't understand what all the excitement about Chrono Trigger was about anyway. I tried it. It was at best an okay game. I preferred Cross, both plotwise and mechanically. *shrug* I understand that I'm in the minority, but ultimately...

Ronfar: I added the Chrono Cross example, and, indeed, it doesn't have a Hatedom, as far as I know. It's just mostly forgotten, in spite of getting absurdly high review scores of the kind reserved for "best game ever" candidates, including a rare perfect 10 from Game Spot. It was hyped, then forgotten.
Rebochan: I put up a Disco Demolition Night image. Figured this trope wasn't complete without it.

Cliché: To the newest entry in purgatory, I merely added my comments as a reply.

  • No-one takes the Pokémon animes seriously at all nowadays (which isn't helped by the fact that they're Strictly Formula to a fault), which for many extend to the games: Admitting you like the games will prompt simple discussion with most people, like most things; admitting you like anything else Pokemon related, well... You know how people treat lepers, right?

k9feline: Removed the lenghty Titanic subentry because I feel it's only partially true at best:

  • And it's not even just limited to the film itself. Leonardo DiCaprio only just recently escaped constant ridicule for his role. The careers of Kate Winslet and Billy Zane, however, pretty much went dead in the water following the film's backlash (the latter appeared in a friggin' Uwe Boll movie). The song "My Heart Will Go On", already incredibly overplayed on the radio at the time, is now popularly regarded as one of the most irritating songs ever. Celine Dion never quite recovered from the backlash, eventually taking the route of every other celebrity that outlived their usefulness: a Las Vegas stage show. James Cameron did not make any more films for a decade, occupying himself mostly with TV shows and documentaries.

It might be fully true of Billy Zane, and maybe James Cameron, but if you look at the post-Titanic filmographies of Leo and Kate, it doesn't look like their careers have really suffered (compare the post Star Wars careers of Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher). In Kate's case, at least two of her post-Titanic films have been box office hits (Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Holiday) and nearly all of her films have been critically acclaimed leading to multiple acting nominations and awards, three of the noms being Oscars. Say what you will about Oscar Bait, but if after doing a certain movie, you go on to receive 3 more Oscar acting nominations within the next decade, and you hold the record for most acting Oscar nominations before reaching the age of 30, then your career is NOT "dead in the water." As for Celine Dion, well, if this troper remembers corretly, Celine has always had a passionate, highly vocal Hatedom that just seem to loathe every little thing about her. It's less a case of "Titanic backlash ruined Celine Dion" and more of a case of "Celine Dion is one of the reasons for the backlash". I don't think this entry should be restored without some modification.

  • The Ultimate version of Venom has so far avoided this, partly because he hasn't been overexposed, but mostly because in a recent issue he parodied Forrest Gump by sitting on a bench in the park, telling different passersby his story...which instantly Crosses the Line Twice once you realize why it's never the same person listening to him twice.
Does that last part have its own trope page? It makes up the main premise of Neil Gaiman's I, Cthulhu, and borderline examples show up briefly in Revelation Space and in issue 8 of the comic The Sword. —Document N

Grimace: Took this out regarding 4X games -

  • Real-Time Strategy isn't dead, but Civilization-type 4X games (those where you are building a society rather than a field base) have hit a dead end in general. The dissolution of Ensemble Studios (Age of Empires) just made it apparent.

While true that they may not be as popular as they once were, DTD-items are stuff that people wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, nor admit to ever touching. Civ4 was pretty popular, is still played by a lot of people, quite a few people are eagerly awaiting the next installment, Galactic Civilizations 2 was great etc etc. Their popularity may have peeked in the 90s, but 4X is hardly dead.
BritBllt: Removing the Pokemon example...
  • Perhaps the most incredulous example would be the Pokémon anime. People were once acting like it gave them a million dollars, three puppies, and a girlfriend. Now people think it stole a million dollars from them, killed their puppies, and ate their girlfriend.
    • Although it should be noted that while the anime, movies, and trading card game have all become Deader Than Disco, the video games (the core format for the franchise) still sell very, very well.
...because, well, it's still on the air! I think the Small Reference Pools effect might be coming into play here: that entry describes how a lot of long-time fans feel, but that doesn't account for newer fans who are just now jumping into the franchise. At any rate, calling something Deader Than Disco while it's still being produced only waters down the trope. This same thing comes up with a few other entries, and it might be worthwhile to go through and sort out what's really dead, and what's just wishful thinking at this point.
I removed the bit about Michael Jackson's work on Sonic 3, I know we aren't serious about citations here, but there's really nothing to it beyond speculation. If someone's insistent on its reinsertion, at least point out that there is nothing official that backs up the idea.
The Red Red Kroovy: Moved the following to Popularity Polynomial, since it has recovered from being Deader Than Disco.

  • One could have said this about film musicals not that long ago, but they seem to be making a comeback. It started in 2002 with the Oscar-winning film of Chicago (though the genre had already gotten a breath of life with 2001's Moulin Rouge!), and continuing into the present with the likes of Dreamgirls, Hairspray and Mamma Mia!!. Disney even managed to make a highly successful franchise out of High School Musical, to the point where the third film was upgraded to a theatrical release. Proof that this can be a Cyclic Trope.

BritBllt: Removing this one...

  • Looney Tunes are apparently believed to be this by Warner Brothers despite their still having plenty of fans who are not ashamed to admit they like the old cartoons. Warner Brothers no longer airs them regularly. Apparently the studio thinks they are no longer relevant, which was what caused the creation of things like Loonatics Unleashed. Or would rather push their Hanna-Barbera holdings. But people still know the characters, so they're not quite this trope even if they might not be as popular as they once were.

Talk about your Square Peg, Round Trope...

Removed this:

  • Numerous fighters in MMA have gone from poster boy to laughingstock alarming fast. Few falls have been more meteoric than Chuck Liddell, who went from the face of the UFC in 2007 to Dancing With the Stars in 2009. Ouch.
    • I see you Chuck Liddell and raise you Kimbo Slice. Went from "the next big thing" to the punchline of MMA in, literally, 14 seconds. Ouch.
    • Liddell doesn't really belong here, as his fall is really no different than a dizzying number of fighters who, as they say in the world of combat sports, "got old overnight". Liddell had been in a ton of wars before he started losing routinely, and people don't remember that he was already 38 when his downslide happened. Not everyone ages as freakishly well as a Randy Couture or Bernard Hopkins, and sadly, the toll of fights and taking punches caught up to him rather suddenly when his typically dependable chin finally just cracked.

Liddell is still a popular guy and is monetizing his fame like many retired athletes do, by hawking his image. He's also apparently returing for a season the The Ultimate Fighter, so rumors of his demise seem exaggerated. As for Kimbo, he was always a freakshow and never seen as "the next big thing." Furthermore, his season of The Ultimate Fighter got the biggest ratings ever, so people are still apparently interested in him.