Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

YYZ: Seems to me we have the makings of another trope here - has anyone ever seen any examples where the hero and villain know each other in real life, but are unaware of the Secret Identity factor? You know, as if the voice wouldn't give it away in a matter of seconds....

Looney Toons: While I haven't actually seen it, I believe that in the Tenchi Muyo! Spin-Off Magical Girl Pretty Sammy, Pretty Sammy and her enemy Pixy Misa are actually Sasami and her best friend. On a less-intimate level of acquaintance, the villains from the "Doom Tree" arc of Sailor Moon were schoolmates of most of the Senshi. I know there are others, but they refuse to come to mind.

Burai: Hmm. I'd considered adding Diamondback/Cap as an example the other day, but talked myself out of it because it was never really an unspoken romantic tone she started explicitly chasing him pretty much since her introduction which takes it out of the (as currently written) bounds of this Trope.

Basically, it seems like either the example doesn't work or the trope description needs to be expanded.

Binaroid: YYZ, one of the central tropes in Dokkoida?! is that the heroes' and villains' Secret Identities all live in the same apartment and don't know who each other are.

Bruce and Selina actually fit this variant themselves in some continuities, at least initially (most notably, Batman Returns). ISTR hearing about a comic book that reversed it, a female lawyer and a male cop who are both superheroes start a costumed romance, but can't stand each other in the real world.
BT The P: The expectation for this to occur in any mixed-gender hero/villain pair is very strong in the minds of the audience. Does anyone else think that's why Slash Fic between same-sex nemeses is so popular?

Seven Seals: You said "nemeses"! Tish, that's French! (Sorry.)

It's my experience that Slash Fic between rivals is popular period, even if the straight rivals in the same show are not having a relationship (implied or otherwise). You're right that this may be a bigger trope where any sort of romantic interaction between rivals is just cool, regardless of sexual orientation, but if that's the case I don't think the expectation for straight pairs is the main influence.

Mabus: Sounds likely....Consider the number of times Sherlock Holmes and Irene Adler have been paired since Arthur Conan Doyle wrote a throw-away line about "that woman who outsmarted me once". If shippers have been doing it that long, it's probably a long-standing trope.
Kilyle: Does the Stainless Steel Rat count here? His rival is a serial killer, and there is a definite connection between them early on... but they're only enemies for one book before they get married, and for that matter Jim diGriz isn't exactly a hero (though he IS the protagonist). Oh, and although they did sorta lobotomize his soon-to-be-wife, she's still a leashed killer at heart, despite being on his side.
Reiver: Does the Evil Inc example really need spoilering? I mean, isn't that sort of half the premise of the comic?
Mitchell Tf: HOW CAN WITCHBLADE AND "THE DARKNESS" Hosts get together! Won't he DIE if he breeds? Or did he?

Mipp: It's all explained in the story. What, you want me to give away every single plot twist?
Haven: Hope the page quote works without Jenn's ^^ expression (which really sell it). For my part, I read it and laughed, a lot, and then thought of this entry.
Lale: Yeah, being seduced by The Vamp doesn't count.

  • Bruce Wayne has been seduced into falling in love with Poison Ivy at least once, but it was more a case of mind-control then actual love.

Dausuul: I think this trope should be restricted to when it's both canonical and explicit - the characters are actually romantically involved, or at least express a romantic interest. Allowing "subtext" to count means this trope is just Foe Yay; anyone can find romantic subtext in anything if they're looking for it. (As a demonstration, I refer you to the example that suggests a Jayne Cobb/Simon Tam pairing... yeah.)