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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Working Title: Dark Is Not Evil: From YKTTW

A Eshtaer: From Childhood's End, would Karellen's species looking like classical demons count?

Clevomon: The Pokemon and Digimon information (especially the Digimon stuff) seems to be referring more to the anime than the video game. Should they be moved? (Kay, I get this is nitpicky, so anyone who's annoyed, just feel free to ignore me).

Scrounge: Do we have a corresponding trope for "light" qualities being associated with bad guys?

Silverlocke980: Scrounge, we will have one as soon as I can figure out how to get it on the sight. I'm titling it, tentatively, " Don't Screw with the Light". First example? Warhammer 40K Imperium. Second example? Mithos from Tales of Symphonia. Third Example?....
...Well, you get the idea. :) Feel free to give me a hand!

Unknown Troper: See Anti-Villain; more specifically, Knight Templar.


The image caption on this page says that Midna from The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess is "Not only good, but the love interest." That is very debatable.


Moogi: I just want to say that whomever wrote the Edge Chronicles example on this page is wonderful. If said editor is female, I shall marry her. I've been meaning to add examples from those books on this site for ages.


The Defenestrator: "slightly dimwitted spoiler" indeed.


Man Without A Body: Someone tells me that there is a Caligari short story that predates the film. I'm pretty sure this is untrue. It's an original screenplay by Hans Janowitz and Carl Meyer. Although it is true that the original screenplay did not have this Twist Ending.

  • Those who say they're evil include Blizzard, in objective statements. Don't think they fit the trope at all.

Nezumi: Erm... I know we don't usually require sources, but I really want to see the one for this, as it seems to go against how Blizzard has handled the Forsaken in-game... and even World of Warcraft in general — Always Chaotic Evil seems to otherwise be restricted to non-PC races, or non-PC factions of PC races.


Nornagest: Excised

*** 4E doesn't count. This is the edition that explicitly writes "You can't play an evil character, your party won't like you if you do" into the character creation rules. If that's not a game collapsing into self-parody, I'm not sure what is.
*** Yes it does. The other side is still evil, and oh yeah, you actually can play an evil campagin. Wizards just realized that most campagins are going to be good and/or unaligned, and an evil character just doesn't mesh well.
*** Besides, aren't you forgetting Rule Zero?

...for hopefully obvious reasons.

Also cut

** Dubious at best. It is called 'dark' because it has yet to be directly measured, and thus its properties remain completely unknown.
*** And you can't see it. It was humor, go with it.
*** This troper generally views it as being the lumniferous aether of our time. But that is a different story.
*** This troper would like to point out that luminiferous aether was never actually measured, unlike dark matter.
*** Might as well give a ShoutOut to Dark Energy. Keep those galaxies spinnin'!

for being unnecessary and unfunny.

Moved the Nattersaurus rex in the goth example over to Troper Tales.


Caswin: Deleting the example on Shego. Apart from the fact that she "enjoys beating people up," she (off the top of my head) steals for kicks, rarely hesitates to help Drakken for any reason other than boredom, once took over the world and turned it into an oppressive, brainwashed dystopia, and has shouted at a defeated enemy that "I - am - EVIL! Have I made myself clear?"... she's evil.


Comartemis: Anyone mind if I delete the commentary under the Hayate Yagami example? It's quite out-of-context and smells to me like someone Complaining About Heroes They Don't Like, trying to paint the characters as being much more morally grey/black than they actually are.