Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Sniffnoy: Isn't this just Author's Saving Throw?

Willy Four Eyes: Hmm...good point. Probably should add these examples to that page, and then Cut List this one. *shrug* Time to go to work again.

Cassius335: Hold on... Might be worth making a distiction between retcons (Author's Saving Throw) and when stuff has just been flat out ignored. The first is "Well, actually this is what happened", the secong is "That didn't happen". No explanation, just "that didn't happen".

Willy Four Eyes: The Power Rangers SPD example could certainly be classified as an Author's Saving Throw. I'll fix it in the morning, I guess.

Charred Knight: To clarify, Hal Jordan being possessed by Parralax,and Batgirl being on mind control drugs, are Author Saving Throw, Greg Weisman saying that only the first two episodes(the ones he had a hand in) of Gargoyles: The Goliath Chronicles count towards the canon are Canon Discontinuity. One is where something still happens their is now a reason for it, the other never happens.

Sniffnoy: Ah, I see. I'm getting the idea that something like Un Canon would be a better title; Canon Discontinuity sounds a lot like Author's Saving Throw.

Cassius335: Un Canon, Non Canon, Dis Canon... yeah, something along those lines.

Cassius335: Hey, Wily? Why'd you remove those examples?

  • Then there's Wolverine's origin tale which contradicted a lot of previously suggested tales of his youth. Also divided fans due to a rug-pull after the second issue, where it turns out that the kid whose dad, Logan, looks a lot like Wolverine turns out not to be the young Wolverine. "Wolvie" is in fact the weedy little rich kid he hung around with.
    • This editor approves of this story however, as it creates a more dynamic arc of how the person Wolverine became was created. It also features a moment where, after being called by his real name, James Howlett, he snaps, shouting about how he's not that person anymore.
    • It's easy to understand why this rubbed so many fans the wrong way. After all, they had to invent a completely new narrative device to pull it off; they called it a "plot twist". It seems to have caught on, though.
    • It's been established that Wolverine has had many false memories implanted by the Weapon X program, and most of those previous origin stories contradicted each other...
  • Interestingly, many fans prefer Marvels approach and willing embrace of Canon Discontinuity, which is compared to DC's recent often confusing adherence to its continuity potholes.

This isn't actually this trope; Origin is still in canon.

Also, Conversation in the Main Page:
  • Of course, then there's the pronouncement that all the 3D Castlevania games have been tossed out as well, a group which Lament of Innocence sits in the middle of. If you're not confused yet, you're doing better than this editor.
  • This troper guesses that the 'all 3D Castlevanias' declaration was made before LOI was created. Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness are both solidly considered Canon.
  • This editor vaguely remembers reading somewhere that the very fact that the Legends protagonist was female played into the decision, the creators feeling that only men should be Belmont heroes.
  • This troper also remembers several rumours about Castlevania creator Koji Igarashi not liking strong females in his games and how this influenced the whole retcon thing.

  • The ultimate Spidey example has to be the recent One More Day, wiping out about 20 years of Spider-man comics at a stroke (and severely confusing the canonicity of anything Spidey has guest starred in).

That's not this trope either; it's a Cosmic Retcon. (And certainly, the past 20 years weren't in anybody's Dis Continuity box except maybe Joe Quesada.)

  • One More Day. Which isn't being ignored—yet—but has reset Spider-Man continuity so he never married Mary Jane, which at least in fine details renders at least twenty years of continuity inaccurate. Among other things, Spidey's unmasking during Civil War, which Marvel assured readers would stand for years, is now suddenly undone. All because Marvel Editor In Chief Joe Quesada thinks Spider-Man being married makes Peter Parker too "old".

As mentioned above, this isn't Canon Discontinuity, it's an explicit Cosmic Retcon.

Later: Pulling it out, again:

I'd suggest a new alternate to this, the "Jose Chung Episode": episodes of a TV show which seem to explicitly jump outside continuity to have fun being ridiculous. The X-Files had several episodes like this, most notably guest-starring Charles Nelson Reilly, who as the author Jose Chung also popped into Millenium.

Another example, arguably, is Star Trek IV. :)

Ununnilium: "Dis Continuity comes from a professionally published guidebook to Doctor Who, written by fans-turned-pro, including Paul Cornell." Wait, what? Are you saying that's where the term comes from? Because as far as I know, according to Dis Continuity Discussion, Looney Toons made it up.

Also, pulling out:
  • This editor opines they would probably put on their life size Dalek costume and slap RTD on the back with their plungers. Most considered the half-human thing a Dork Age moment best ignored and forgotten. Besides, which Who fans have gotten used to many deviations from established Canon even if you ignore the Expanded Universe. The aforementioned Paul Cornell, now a professional Doctor Who script writer, has argued that Doctor Who doesn't even have a Canon.

Because, first, it seems to miss the point (yes, there are fans who didn't like the half-human thing, but there are fans who did), and second, the last two sentences don't have anything to do with the trope.

Later: Pulling out the Paul Cornell thing. Also, changing the description of the Terminator entry back. The first one doesn't qualify for this.

Sikon: As probably the only person on this wiki who watched Terminator 3 and liked it and finds it to make perfect sense time travel-wise, I should note that it's a case of Alternate Continuity, not Canon Discontinuity. The upcoming Terminator 4 doesn't ignore T3: it takes place in the post-apocalyptic future during the war with Skynet. So T3 vs TSCC is a branching of the franchise, if you will.

Added: It is, in fact, already mentioned in Alternate Continuity, so I'm taking it out of this article.

Ununnilium: Fair enough!

Later: Re-cutting:
  • Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles ignores the third movie completely. It keeps Sarah's cancer as a plot device, but the actual events have been contradicted.
    • To be fair, a key element of the series is Time Travel, including changing timelines.

  • Star Trek: Voyager. Threshold. Mutant baby salamanders. INFINITE WARP TEN. So bad that even the writer thought it was terrible. You do the math.

It's already in there.

  • Oh for fark's sake, this editor is sure he was joking to freak out the squares. But that's neither here nor there.

Indeed it isn't.

  • X-Men did this in 2004, after the end of writer Grant Morrison's run on New X-Men which culminated in something that looked like a bad fan fiction. Editor-in-Chief Joe Quesada even overruled his 'Dead Stay Dead' rule so the writers could fix some of the Wall Bangers.

This was just a plain old Retcon. (Not to mention it was neither the first nor last time the "Dead Stay Dead" rule was tossed out the window.)
Lale: Since the status of TGD has been confirmed in the Avatar show discussion...
And to think I used to get lectured for arbitrary cuts...

That Other 1 Dude: No it has not. Just admiting an episode is bad does not qualify it as a Canon Discontinuity. They didn't Retcon it out of existence, so it's not an example.

Charred Knight: Lale call a dectective, you are clearly missing your sense of humor, and need to find it.

Gloating Swine: Once The Ember Island Players has aired, it might be worth adding this to this page and noting that a joke is being made about retcons and discontinuity, but I think we should keep it on ice until the episode has been aired and we're not working from a snippet.

  • Superhero comics getting multiple adaptations in separate continuities is nothing new. The Incredible Hulk may have set a record by disregarding one that came just five years earlier, though.

Actually, from what I've heard, it leaves the question open as to wether it's set in the same continuity.
  • Shale: I was under the impression it gives a conflicting origin story. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

Shale: The Metal Gear example confuses me mightily. Snake's Revenge is non-canon, obviously. But the first Solid game included complete summaries of the first two canon games, brought back Grey Fox as a major character with an origin tied up completely in the plot of second MSX game, had Liquid make frequent referenes to Big Boss's Outer Heaven project, had Vulcan Raven as a former Outer Heaven soldier, etc. How is that "the barest of continuity nods"?

Ununnilium: Indeed. Cutting that part.


This is an Alternate Continuity, so it doesn't count as this.

  • Said fans seem to ignore that she, herself, was a Retcon. "First Belmont to fight Dracula", anyone?

Cassius335: Removed...

  • The real retcon, however, is when Doctor-Donna starts "burning out" due to her newly-acquired Time Lord half, and the Doctor explicitly states that this is why there has never been and can never be a human or half-human Time Lord.

... because a) that's not quite what he said (or what Doctor-Donna was) and b) the continued existence of Doctor 10b flaty contradicts this.

SynjoDeonecros: In that case, I removed...

  • The Series 4 finale Journey's End appears to have retconned the "half-human" revelation. When Donna winds up using the Doctor's regeneration energy to create a second Doctor, they both gained halves of each other and Donna and this second Doctor are both referred to explicitly as half-human, half-Time Lord.

...because it didn't "retcon" anything; Doctor-Donna and Other Ten being called "half-human, half-Time Lord" means nothing, since "half/part something" is the standard generic term when describing a hybrid creature. The Doctor's statement to Donna, though, expressly made it clear that, until then, there has never been a half-human Time Lord, thus being the retcon of the Doctor's origins, not the existence of the other two "Doctors".

Cassius335: No, there's never been a ...what was it?... "Human/Time Lord meta-crisis", because a "Meta-crisis" is unstable and will burn up. 10b, OTOH, IS a Human/Time Lord hybrid and he seems to be just fine.

Shale: Pulled another iteration of the above.
Darmok: Cut
  • StargateSG-1. In the first season episode 1969, a wormhole turns around and exits in the past or future at the same position through a temporary replica of the gate when it intersects a solar flare. In future seasons, its spin-off StargateAtlantis and DVD movie Continuum wormholes exit in the past or future at the intended receiving gate."

Not only does this not explain itself terribly clearly, but the events of 1969 are explicitly mentioned in the season 4 episode Window of Opportunity.

Nornagest: Cut this:

* The Baldur's Gate series make a few missteps against the canon lore of the Forgotten Realms setting. For example, Viconia De Vir is a drow elf from Menzoberranzan, arguably the most famous drow city. However, House De Vir in Menzoberranzan was annihilated at least 60 years before the game is set, which means Viconia must have spent more than half a century on the surface. Oh, and the Matron of House De Vir was killed by Zaknafein Do'Urden, not Viconia's brother Valas. See R.A. Salvatore's book Homeland for details.

That's not Dis Continuity, it's just a continuity error. Salvatore's books are so bowel-looseningly bad that I'd be very happy if it was Canon Discontinuity, but the presence of Drizzt in both Baldur's Gate games suggests otherwise.

Real Slim Shadowen: More to the point, it's not even necessarily a continuity error. At no point did Viconia say when she committed her "sin". In fact, fanon goes that it was her act which got DeVir in shit. It's entirely possible she just wandered around for a few decades and bumped into the PC during the events of the first game.

Ramenth: A large portion of the fanbase likes the PC/Viconia pairing, and can't fathom making her a realistic elf-age. They tend to stick her at 40 or maybe, say, 70, instead of where the game lore itself implies her to be, which is closer to 200.
Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Cut this and put it here. If it's still, inexplicably, canon, it's not Canon Discontinuity.
  • Marvel Comics put out a mini-series starring the popular character Blink, which was intended to whet readers' appetites for the upcoming book Exiles in which she starred. The mini-series was a godawful mess in which Blink was somehow trapped in the Negative Zone— and became romantically involved with Annihilus— of all people! Yeah, that Annihilus— the lead villain in Annihilation Wave. Oh, both she and Annihilus had Laser-Guided Amnesia, too. The story ended happily, with Blink and Annihilus getting their memories back and going their separate ways. Exiles lasted 100 issues— and Annihilus didn't turn up even once. Nor was the Negative Zone ever mentioned.
    • It is, however, mentioned in Blink's entry in The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, so it's still considered canon.

Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: I have heard that Steve Moffat does think that the Eighth Doctor said that he was half-human. I'll presume that the powers that be at Doctor Who agree with Ten(b) about the Doctor actually being half-human, so it'll be interesting to see if, and how, this is dealt with. Eight had amnesia like crazy in both the TV Movie and the Expanded Universe, but this goes a little beyond that.
  • The [[Warcraft Warcraftverse]], arguably. The arguably comes from the plot/lore having always been very loose to the point this troper challenges anyone to name a single Warcraft game, expansion, other material that did not retcon something.
Danel: What?
Prfnoff: Now that Discontinuity has been split by medium (which actually happened quite a while ago), I have the nagging thought that this ought to be merged back into the pages, with canonical examples set off in the same manner as the Mary Sue pages. What do you say?

banjo2E: According to Sonic the Hedgehog, Adventure 2 counts as this. But I've never heard anything about this; indeed, I'm fairly sure it is canon, although possibly normal Discontinuity depending on who you talk to. Clarify please?time=1231357190
Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Cut this and put it here. If we ever get to the future that Season 9 of Bleach is set in the natural way, it may suddenly prove to be relevant canon.

  • The first episode of season 10 of Bleach seems to have discontinued all of season 9. Season 9, as you might have guessed, was a filler.

Swish: Cut this:

  • In season one of Stargate SG-1, an episode titled "Hathor" features a Goa'uld giving birth to other Goa'uld (later ignored with the introduction of Goa'uld queens) and a device which turns humans into Jaffa (giving them the pouch to house an infant Goa'uld). This is at odds with the previously established and later confirmed notion that the Jaffa are a separate sub-species of Human.
    • Hathor was a Goa'uld queen. And the device that turned O'Neill into a Jaffa is not necessarily in conflict with them being a subspecies. Also, there is no doubt as to the canonocity of this episode, the events are referenced several times later in the series.

The entire premise is false. Hathor is one of eight known Goa'uld Queens. Therefore completely capable of giving birth to other Goa'uld. And yes, Jaffa are established as a subset of Humans. However, the device does not turn humans to Jaffa, it only gives them a symbiote pouch. Because Jaffa were once humans (they all came from the same source, ancient Egypt until 3000 BC), it isn't hard to conceive that Humans can hold a symbiote pouch.

Furthermore, the events of (Season 1 episode) "Hathor" are referenced in Season 8, "Citizen Joe." And in said episode point out how silly the episode in general is. But pointing it out as silly is NOT disavowing it from canon. One would say that actually Affirms its place in Cannon...
Zeke: Modified:
  • The fourth season of Heroes has taken great pains to basically ignore all the character swerves of season two and three.
First of all, don't drink the Kool-Aid: the show has had only three seasons, even if it calls the current one two "volumes". Second, Caitlin's story is the only one that really qualifies for this trope. Other plotlines may not have been addressed as much as we'd like, or the way we'd like, but they haven't been ignored either.
BritBllt: Tentatively removing this entry...
  • This stretches from TV to film with Star Trek: The Next Generation. In the finale All Good Things, Worf and Troi are about to be married. By the time Deep Space 9 is starting to get good, Worf and Dax have a relationship, and by ST Nemesis, Troi and Riker are getting married. Little if anything is heard about what happened between Worf and Troi, nor is it ever mentioned on DS 9.
    • Of course, there is a full year between All Good Things and Generations, and eight more years before Nemesis. Relationships have a tendency of rising and falling, so no discontinuity is necessary to explain Troi breaking up with Worf and her marriage to Riker. More interesting is that they were on-and-off dating for nearly TWO DECADES!
...because, as said, there were several years of off-camera time between Worf and Troi being a couple (as far as I remember, they weren't about to get married - All Good Things just marked their relationship getting more serious), and Worf arriving on Deep Space 9, and then another year before anything started with Dax. There's no Canon Discontinuity here, his relationship with Troi just came to an end offscreen.

BritBllt: Removing this one for now, though I could be wrong about it...

It's been awhile since I saw Voyager, but it seems like the EMH was making a point about Barclay's mental history and reliability (all those disorders are mental illnesses though, to be fair to Barclay, transporter psychosis was a misdiagnosis). So it's not necessarily Canon Discontinuity to not bring up BPS, since it wouldn't have had any bearing on the EMH's point. Still, if I'm remembering the scene wrong, feel free to add it back in!

triassicranger: Is Leisure Suit Larry 4 an example of this, or rather is it an example of Four Is Death?

Cysma: I propose that this trope be called Canon Banned just for pun!

Triassicranger: About the second Voyager example (about Janice Lester saying women can't be starship captains) isn't that more to do with her being cuckoo-brained rather than Canon Discontinuity?

Triassicranger: Cut from page. If an entry is untrue, then don't keep it:

  • In the first episode of Chad Vader, clearly meant as a one-off parody, Chad has Darth's ability to choke people by pointing at them, and doesn't hesitate to use it. In later episodes, Chad is repeatedly humiliated by his nemesis Clint and feels ashamed because there's nothing he can do about it. The choking trick has apparently been retconned out of existence in order make Chad less powerful and more sympathetic.
    • Actually, he does still have it. He just doesn't use it too often.
Surely in Diamonds are Forever Bond is chasing Blofeld at the beginning because he murdered his wife.
Doktor von Eurotrash: I live in the UK, and I've never heard that the second verse of God Save the Queen is left out. The sixth verse is regularly left out, since it's belligerent towards the Scots (and refers to a very specific military situation at the time, as well, leaving it irrelevant today). Sure that's not the one you're thinking of?