Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Consider adding Xenosaga to the video games portion of this page. I'm not that knowledgeable about it myself (hence my resistance to add this myself), but supposedly in the first volume of the game, a scene in which a man stabs a robot loli in the chest with his hand in order to get some data from her is changed to him "hovering" his hand above her to get the information. In the second game, the same man ends up blowing his head off with a gun, only to have the gun edited out. The gunshot sound effect stays. His head does not.


Brickie: *reads page*. Oh, is that why they renamed Avatar over here? It's been bugging me for ages, that has. Not that I've ever seen it but it's mentioned on practically every trope going...

They've actually cut out of a WB cartoon a scene of Bugs taking sleeping pills in order to torment Elmer in the hunter's dreams. What's funny is that as a wee lass I used to act out that very cartoon with a variety of props and would even mime taking the pills. PERHAPS THEY WERE RIGHT?


Yoshi348: On a more serious note, I've noticed that the definition on this pag points Bowdlerization as specifically editing in order to make things less offensive, while at other times on other pages people seem to take it as any sort of silly anime editing, including stuff like turning sushi into hamburgers or something. But that doesn't fit with the current definition, because I don't think anybody seriously thinks sushi is offensive (unless you're some sort of militant vegetarian or something, but then a hamburger would be just as offensive).

Should we expand the definition here, or limit the definition elsewhere? Given where the name comes from, I'm more inclined to go with the latter, but let's get some consensus here.

Gus: 'Bowdlerise' has a firm meaning — editing to relieve a perhaps spurious offense. If editing is done for other reasons, it is a different thing, and should not be mislabeled. $0.02

Ununnilium: Perhaps, then, we need another trope for editing for other purposes? Perhaps one specifically about cultural changes - Victory Cabbage?

Thomas the Rhymer: I agree. Don't malapropise bowdlerise. I'm not sure what Victory Cabbage means. Localisation (or Localise, to fit convention) would do the job.

Kizor: Victory Cabbage was what they called sauerkraut in the States during WWI. Like Freedom Fries, only with some actual justification.

Duckluck: I'm pretty sure it was "Liberty Cabbage," actually. "Freedom Fries" might be a better contemporary example, although it still doesn't seem destinct enough. Maybe "Rice Ball Doughnuts?" Hmm, I'm not sure if we really need a page like that.

Ununnilium: "Freedom Fries" is something two or three people in DC were doing for about a week, while "Victory Cabbage" (or Liberty Cabbage, both were used) was a much more widespread thing in its day. Plus, the former evokes the politics of today, and that's something we really don't need.

Ununnilium: So is somebody going to make Victory Cabbage?

Seth: I like Freedom Fries.

Silent Hunter: I don't mind. I'm pretty sure that the Freedom Fries thing continued for a couple of years in the Congressional canteen. It recently got changed back.

Morgan Wick: I don't like the "Victory Cabbage"-"Freedom Fries" type names at all. If we're talking about "cultural changes," neither one of those are cultural changes, in fact they're a lot closer to boulderization. How about Culture Specific Editing or Fill In The Cultural Equivalent or just Cultural Equivalent?

Dark Sasami: We've always referred to this as Cultural Translation. The scene that sticks out most in my mind is one of the "Ryoga is lost" bits from the Viz dub of Ranma , in which he asks whether this is Nerima, and a confused farmer drawls, "Naw, this here's Shikoku!"

Morgan Wick: I have been instantly hooked on Cultural Translation.

Seth: Cultural Translation seems to work, wraps up the trope nicely.

Ununnilium: Works for me.

Solandra: Wrote up a quick entry. Hopefully Wiki Magic will provide the examples...

Kilyle: Is this what happened to Beetlejuice (the cartoon)? I used to watch it regularly on... 11 or 13, forget. Then it shifted to channel 4 (ABC). And I quickly got the disturbing impression that the show was far less, erm, gross, offensive, than it had been. Totally ruined the feel of the show, but I kinda thought I must be mistaken. Anyone know?

Rebochan: I think the title would be better as Bowdlerisation, because my inner grammar nanny is going nuts about using a verb as a title. Plus it's never categorized in a series page as a "Bowdlerise", but as an instance of "Bowdlerisation".

Caswin: I'm inclined to agree, on both counts. Move to move.

Tanto: It's harder to use in sentences that way, though. Just make a redirect.

Caswin: What do you mean? We've got the same thing for Disneyfication and Flanderization, off the top of my head.

Nornagest: Cut this —

Nice try, but Yu-Gi-Oh (and most shounen anime) is for kids — in its country of origin as much as here. It doesn't need editing to suit its own target demographic — which is the whole point of this trope.

Also, and more importantly, Conversation in the Main Page.

Igordebraga: From the same troper:

This very site is the most blatant example of Bowdlerization I can think of. Every single one of my posts has been edited to a more politically-correct form. Detailed, specific examples are replaced for more vague/generic ones, non-canon sources are used as irrefutable truth, and all kinds of humor are lost. The perfect example of this is the What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids? page: all of my posts, all of them truthful, some of them laugh-out-loud hilarious, were Bowdlerised by editing until they were mere shells of their former selves (my assesment about Whedonization not being for kids was dead-on, until it was deleted).

Conversation, complaint, and not having much notion of this wiki works (I follow his "work" closely, his examples are mostly A)commentary, personal cases or ones with limited scope, etc B)bashing - including the mentioned "Whedonization" C)as he mentioned, jokes, D)sheer ignorance of tropes - "Can any media other than Harry Potter use the world "muggle"?" "The Power of Love? He is a wizard, not a Care Bear!" E)...fetishes and F)complaining about removals. Mostly with bad grammar.)

fleb: *reads edit history* Ah, agustinaldo. I've seen him around too. I'm giving him the benefit of doubt (er, on the grammar, anyway) and assuming English isn't his first language.
Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Cut this and put it here. It's clear as mud.
  • Kung Pow! has an example that arguably made it funnier: two silent students are intercepted by the Big Bad in the original Tiger and Crane Fist and are killed. The Kung Pow script turns the students into ventriloquists to facilitate them singing about their predicament when they "die".
    • Granted, this could be considered less an example of Bowdlerization since Kung Pow is essentially an absurdist gag dub in the first place.

kefkakrazy: I cut this out from the One Piece section, talking about how 4kids changed alcohol references. It's completely inaccurate-Zoro especially drinks a lot of sake.
  • A move which is rather silly, considering even the Japanese version constantly hammers home that the main cast doesn't drink (Luffy refusing to drink alcohol in Logue Town, Nami passing on what she thought was alcohol on whiskey peak (which turned out to be juice) Even Zoro was drinking tomato juice on the archipelago.

Kuzlalala: Just a question actually, but how is Montblanc actually a JerkAss at the Japanese version of FFTA?

King Clark: I have a quote I'd like to add here, but I'm not sure whether to put it on the main page or the associated quotes section. If I did the former, then the page would be Quote Overdosed. For the quote in question:

"Enough is ENOUGH! I have had it with these monkey fighting snakes on this Monday-to-Friday plane! Everybody strap in, I'm about to open some freaking windows."
Samuel L Jackson's Cluster F-Bomb Cuddly Flower Bubbles from the Snakes on a Plane TV Edit.

Midna: If the article mostly uses the North American "ize", then why does the page title use the everywhere-else "ise"?! I propose a move.

Adding to the discussion at the top, a more direct example of Bowdlerization in Xenosaga is the removal of all blood in Episode III, which really, really ruins a couple of scenes in the game.

As for the dividing of this particular trope, changing food to be culturally appropriate isn't the exact same as Bowdlerization. Perhaps a subtrope is needed here.

- Phoenix_Apollo