Willy Four Eyes
: Took hedgeclippers to the large chunk of text about DC Comics' last five years. Original text preserved to be discussed here and only here.
- Almost all of DC Comics' entire output since June 2003 does not exist. Really, Sue Dibny raped by the villain Dr. Light during the child-friendly Satellite League era?? Klingon Promotions for Blue Beetle, Aquaman, Firestorm, and the Question?? Black Lightning has not one, but TWO out-of-nowhere grown-up daughters?? Mary Marvel, of all people, goes EVIL in an extremely contrived manner?? Sorry, all of this is obviously the work of amateur fanfic writers, not the professional staff at DC. This stuff never happened. Robin, Superboy, Wonder Girl, and Impulse are all alive and still part of a totally fun-loving Young Justice, not the Wangsty "Teen Titans". The JLI/Superbuddies are all alive and together, with Captain Atom not being Monarch, the Brazilian Fire not killing as part of a clandestine American government organization, and Max Lord not being a villain, much less killed by Wonder Woman. Cass Cain did not turn evil, and Linda Danvers still exists. DC heroes can actually ''win a fight'' against a single villain when they band together. (And I mean "SECOND-ORDER Idiot Plot" with that last sentence link.) C-List characters aren't constantly used as Fodder. DC's recent Crisis Crossovers are NOT loaded down with rape and angst and despair to disguise the fact that they're still about people in brightly-colored spandex punching each other. Character Derailment, Executive Meddling, Writer on Board, and Plot-Induced Stupidity are not pervasive and oppressive, and all is right with the world.
- This editor wants to say the same, except that would mean striking out Seven Soldiers, the mad scientist plot from 52, and the upcoming Final Crisis. Which were, of course, all written by Grant Morrison. So in this editor's world, almost every DC comic from the last 5 years or so was written by Grant Morrison, using his incredible Chaos Mag!c powers to appear in many places at once. (Gail Simone and Mark Waid get to write a few too, of course, and the current Blue Beetle and his creative team can stay as long as Ted Kord doesn't have to die.)
- And the newer Firestorm is actually a much better character than the original. The new Aquaman also held his own, as well.
- Jason Todd is 'STILL DEAD'.
- The Question, on the other hand, has NEVER died.
- The original poster of this particular chain, here. And he's got a VERY special phrase that describes the new Blue Beetle, new Firestorm, new Aquaman, and all the other Klingon Promoted characters since June 2003...
- And that's your opinion, and you really need to stop assuming everyone else agrees. I cut the chain back out because it's absurdly blanket.
- Where did I assume everyone agreed? You're seeing things that aren't there...
: Okay, Jason Rusch is a much
better character than the original Firestorm, who barely had a personality at all. He's an actually good
character... And were people complaining like this after Wally West became the Flash?
Willy Four Eyes
: I hope not. I liked
Wally West as The Flash. Then again, I only saw him in Justice League Unlimited
, and didn't get a chance to dislike him for replacing Barry Allen.
: Waaaaait a minute!! Since this is about personal
discontinuity, let the person
whose discontinuity it is do the editing. I can look the other way on editing regular entries which make at least some vague pretense of objectivity. But here, you're basically putting words in my mouth, which is another story altogether.
: Took out the reference to Trouble. It's already in Canon Discontinuity
: Why are people so adment about personal discontinuity in Comic Books? If I recall correctly,a certain fanboy turned editor in chief
tried to enforce his personal hatred of the last twenty years in a certain comic book universe
.That didn't lead to very nice things
Lots42: Okay, what? Buffy going lesbian for a night is not canon? Why? Talk about Missing The Point. Heck, the only thing 'wrong' about it was it wasn't Willow. Okay, that's just an opinion but in conclusion, gay doesn't equal bad.
: Unless it's an implausible direction for the character to go, then it is bad. If a gay character went straight for one night out of nowhere, you wouldn't think that was retarded?
:Lots42; No, because human beings are funny and complicated and odd. I should know, I are one.
Willy Four Eyes
: Since this:
...is likely going to get deleted and restored again until the end of time, let's keep it off the front page until we can reach a consensus that's neither a) overly whiny, like the original version, or b) overly spiteful, like the edited rebuttal.
: Because there will never BE a consensus.
The guy just doesn't want people disliking the books he likes.
By trying to keep this off the page, you are already giving him what he wants, so he has no need of any "consensus". And if we composed a new version without him, he would just delete it, and we'd be back to square one.
He will never even come to this discussion. Tell you what: I'll give you and him 3 days. If he doesn't show up and make a serious attempt at a consensus, I'll be putting the old version back up.
: I'm here. The problem I have with this is that I've NEVER seen anyone complain about this on this scale. I've heard complaints about Identity Crisis
and that's fine, I'm not that big a fan of it anyway; but I still acknowledge it, and respect people who don't want to. Same with Young Justice
. Same with any thing on here. Let me tell you a bit about myself: I didn't start reading comics as much as I do now until about three or four years ago. I'm mainly a DC guy, but as a kid, I watched the DCAU shows so I was pretty familiar with some of aspects of the DCU. I owned two DC books from the 90's: an issue of Justice League International (not too familiar with it, but it had Booster Gold and Blue Beetle as members so...) and issue one of Young Justice
(not counting the original special event "Girl-Frenzy"). I'm not trying to say that the Modern Age
DCU is better than the Dark Age
, far from it. BOTH had/have serious flaws and I can understand if a character is changed from what they used to be/is killed off pisses off fans. The problem I have with this is that people are using these Wall Bangers
and So Bad Its Horrible
stuff (a good number of them, but not all of the stuff) and even stuff that isn't to say "EVERYTHING I GREW UP WITH WAS BETTER THAN THIS "SHIT" THAT IS HERE NOW!!!11". This is whining on an EPIC SCALE, this is a 50.0 on a 10.0 of whining. You can look back fondly on the past all you want, but for god's sake get over it. THIS IS FREAKING COMIC BOOKS HERE, THEY'RE NOT REAL! I enjoy comics as entertainment, not a near-religion like the Sunni-Shi'a split in Islam. I've seen a total of TWO people (maybe three) who believe this: The_Herald and k9feline2. That's it. This is a problem with the internet: it allows a relatively small group of whiners to sound big. The DCU from 2003 isn't bad, it's just DIFFERENT from what it used to be. Everything here isn't that
bad to warrant this. This isn't "One More Day and Civil War"-bad. Shit, this isn't even "Clone Saga or Death Mate
"-bad. Or to use DC stuff: none of this is as bad as Bloodlines Bloodpack, Armageddon 2001, or Extreme Justice bad. People need to get over this!
: "This is whining on an EPIC SCALE, this is a 50.0 on a 10.0 of whining."
Well, I'm glad you can be so honest about yourself.
If you yourself were able to "get over this!", you wouldn't have repeatedly erased the quote in question in the first place. Or wrote an enormous paragraph complaining about it and those who believe it.
It's obviously more important to you than you claim.
The quote in question provided solid, published examples of why many readers don't like this era. Many people didn't like Sue Dibny being retro-raped. Many people have spoken out against characters being replaced and characters being written out-of-character. And more people than ever have argued against the constant deaths.
Many people have such opinions. Just because you, personally, don't know any people like this doesn't mean that they don't exist.
: So you wanted me to talk about why I have just a problem with this gross over simplification of Discontinuity, but then use it to insult me? Wow, how fucking mature. I don't have a problem your dislike of Sue Dibney's rape or the fact that characters are how they were when you were fucking ten years old
. WRITE THAT. Don't lump an entire fictional universe just because you don't like a dozen or so more things. Marvel fans have MUCH more to bitch about than you, but you don't see a "There is a group of fans who think Marvel hasn't produced anything since 2001!!11" under the Marvel section.
: And, of course, you calling people "whiners" isn't an insult. Riiiiight.
And again: If you really didn't have a problem with others' feelings on this issue, you wouldn't be so worked up about it.
If some Marvel fans want to write off anything published after 2001 or whenever, they are free to do so and put it on the page. That has nothing to do with this discussion.
This whole "debate" is about people having legitimate issues with the current DC era, which is why they want it to be Discontinuity, versus your inability to stand the fact that they do have a problem with this era. Our legitimate example of Discontinuity
vs. your Complaining about People Not Liking the Show
. And since I can see that we will never agree on any edits made here anyway, I will be putting the example back up.
: Naw, you
can list each of those "examples" individually, not as the oversimplified piece of shit it is now.
: Making an attempt to resolve this peaceably, per this forum thread
. Please take more details or personal reasons/anger to Discontinuity
(that's in the Troper Tales
Chandagnac: I removed this little lot. No discussion on the main page:
- Many fans of Kitty Pryde from way back reject the idea that she was ever romantically or otherwise involved with Pete Wisdom.
- On the other hand, just as many fans wish that Kitty Pryde hadn't been retconned back into a teenage hacker/genius/ballet/ninja/Mary Sue/young teenager who is nevertheless old enough to have sex with Colossus.
- Also, the Kitty Pryde/Pete Wisdom ship was very popular during the days of Excalibur. The controversy over the relationship is more Broken Base than Discontinuity.
- Whatever you can say about Pete Wisdom (even his fans call him 'the bastard of truth') at least he wasn't bland. Pete Wisdom was an interesting, multi-faceted character who was very different to any other X-character before or since. Love him or hate him; there were few people who were unmoved by him. On the other hand... does anyone remember Rigby Fallon? Or Alasdair Kinross? Or that alien guy? Does anyone remember any of the other forgettable characters that Kitty Pryde suddenly decided she'd fallen in love with after she broke up with Pete Wisdom? Although, they might count as Canon Discontinuity...
linnen: I'd vote for Wolverine's origin soties. How many has he gone thru?
: I removed this:
** That's because DC doesn't have that many other characters people like enough to worry about having screwed up.
A) Because it's natter, B) because it's not really true, and C) because it's kind of rude.