Not paging the OP due to their absence, and I'll take a closer look at this and comment later. I'll put a banner on the page, though.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 30th 2023 at 9:49:37 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.The original idea sounds like pointless Tropes in Aggregate.
Rename. Maybe Unrequited Love or any other mentioned options, also throwing One Sided Romance in.
If examples are too close to Love Triangle or Love Dodecahedron cleanup. We could also either redirect this to Unrequited Love Tropes or limit to relationahips of 2 people.
Edited by Amonimus on Nov 30th 2023 at 9:24:31 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupYeah I'll be honest, even though I knew the way folks use the trope to just describe "one instance of unrequited love" was technically incorrect, I still think that that in of itself is tropeworthy and interesting (it's an illustration of a specific kind of interpersonal conflict that could lead to drama, developments, and other plot intrigue), and having just one trope for the all-encompassing "ALL love in a work is like this" felt too narrow. Not unsalvageable nor invalid as a concept, but definitely very specific.
Still, misuse is misuse, but even considering that there's an Unrequited Love Tropes index, I don't think I'd particularly mind just a standalone general trope for Unrequited Love for other examples that don't fall into the other sub-tropes. There are definitely examples that do need work of context (I'm noticing in the wick check there are a bunch of "A character has a crush B character but B is uninterested" without really explaining why A is interested to begin with) but that to me just sounds like general user error and poor editing rather than an inherent problem presented by the trope itself, such as being too vague or lacking in definition.
My opinion would be to keep All Love Is Unrequited for its technical, correct definition (most, if not literally all relationships in a work go unfulfilled), but split the trope into a base Unrequited Love concept and sort whatever examples we find into there, along with other applicable tropes like Love Dodecahedron and/or Love Triangle (because those tropes are more likely to entail at least some successfully reciprocated relationships).
Edited by number9robotic on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:05:41 AM
Thanks for playing King's Quest V!After seeing it mentioned, I'd be fine with retooling this into a trope about unrequited love in general, without the Trope in Aggregate aspect (though keeping the Trope in Aggregate and splitting off a separate trope for unrequited love would be an option, since it seems there's a Missing Supertrope situation here that's causing this to be misused more broadly than it's defined), and renaming it accordingly (using Unrequited Love as the name instead of that name redirecting to Unrequited Love Tropes would be fine).
If we retool this trope that way, I'm pretty sure it would be supertrope to the tropes on Unrequited Love Tropes (I don't have a strong opinion on whether that means we should move the index to the trope page if that's the case), since unrequited love is a requirement for all of those tropes. (And I feel like converting this trope into a supertrope for unrequited love would be much less of a headache to sort out than other recent supertrope proposals, between unrequited love being a preexisting term and the existence of the Unrequited Love Tropes index making it pretty easy to figure out what the subtropes would be.)
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 1st 2023 at 2:51:27 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.I'm fine with either just renaming or outright retooling.
This definitely is in need of rework, but I'm not sure what angles there are left for a general Unrequited Love supertrope that aren't already covered by something on the Unrequited Love Tropes index.
Edited by StarSword on Dec 1st 2023 at 3:38:32 PM
Maybe just a redirect to that index, then? I'm also not sure what would be covered. Unless it's just left with no examples, which feels a little pointless.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure PurenessTo temporarily recap for now, mentioned ideas are
- Retool All Love Is Unrequited (would need more discussion if to scope broadly for a Super-Trope or pick something more specific) and Rename
- Split off the Super-Trope and Retool All Love Is Unrequited to be more Tropes in Aggregate-focused.
- Merging Unrequited Love Tropes to All Love Is Unrequited and making it a Super-Trope
- Redirecting All Love Is Unrequited to Unrequited Love Tropes
Make supertrope of Unrequited Love Tropes. The current "no one's love is requited" could probably just go under Love Dodecahedron.
Edited by PhiSat on Dec 1st 2023 at 2:12:08 AM
Oissu!Yeah, what the hell, I'll second that. The fact I can't think of an example that wouldn't fit in an existing subtrope, doesn't mean there aren't any.
to making an Unrequited Love supertrope
Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Dec 1st 2023 at 11:50:39 PM
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation projectI mean, if you don't know of any examples of Unrequited Love that wouldn't go under the subtropes, you could look through the second folder on the usage check and figure out what subtropes they would go under.
Yeah, I think the fact that not all examples fit tropes on Unrequited Love Tropes is an argument in favor of making an Unrequited Love supertrope.
Something I've been wondering is if the supertrope should be a No On-Page Examples page, since it seems like the kind of broad concept we'd put there (since broad supertropes are often added there to reduce clutter). I suppose we could tackle that once we start gathering consensus later on.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 2nd 2023 at 6:43:00 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.It's been a while and the database conversion is done, so do we have anything to work with for a crowner?
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Still vouching to making a presently nonexistent supertrope for Unrequited Love Tropes (Unrequited Love sounds good to me).
I don't know if the correct usage of All Love Is Unrequited and Love Dodecahedron/Love Triangle are as mutually exclusive as some folks think it is so I don't believe they'd need to be merged (just because there's a tangling of prospective relationships doesn't inherently mean none of them go fulfilled), but All Love Is Unrequited would absolutely need a cleanse to narrow down to "no one's love ever gets reciprocated".
Edited by number9robotic on Dec 7th 2023 at 1:12:50 AM
Thanks for playing King's Quest V!As far as functionality, would we convert the current Unrequited Love Tropes index into Unrequited Love to make it an indexing supertrope a la Love Triangle, or just make a separate trope and link to the index from it?
I was thinking about having a crowner option for making an Unrequited Love supertrope and a separate option that says "If the Unrequited Love supertrope is made, move the index on Unrequited Love Tropes to that page, then redirect Unrequited Love Tropes to Unrequited Love". That would be in addition to the other stuff that's been discussed, such as converting All Love Is Unrequited into an Unrequited Love supertrope (the "If X, then Y" option would apply to this if both have consensus) as well as the option for making an Unrequited Love supertrope while keeping All Love Is Unrequited separate from the supertrope (the "If X, then Y" option would apply to this as well, again if both have consensus).
I might see if I can draft a list of crowner options tomorrow. It's getting late here, so I'm going to hold of on mod work for now.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 7th 2023 at 11:22:58 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.I finally got around to hooking a crowner since it seems like there's support for making the Unrequited Love Missing Supertrope, and whether to do anything else if we make it (such as, but not limited to, merging the Unrequited Love Tropes index and/or All Love Is Unrequited with it) needs to be sorted out as well.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Posting to make public that I upvoted "make Unrequited Love a trope" and "merge All Love Is Unrequited". Didn't vote on the other two because I have no strong feelings about those actions.
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.Posting this comment to make public that I voted in favor of "Convert Unrequited Love from a redirect to a trope that would cover unrequited love in general, and would act as a supertrope to the tropes currently listed on the Unrequited Love Tropes index. I didn't upvote or downvote any of the other options.
135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300Posting to make public that I gave "Convert Unrequited Love from a redirect to a trope that would cover unrequited love in general, and would act as a supertrope to the tropes currently listed on the Unrequited Love Tropes index" a Yea. No other options were voted for.
Edited by Riolugirl on Dec 12th 2023 at 7:38:33 PM
"As long as I have my comrades with me, I can do anything!" (She/Her) (Current Focus: Cleaning Hell Is That Noise misuse)Calling in favor of the following:
- Convert Unrequited Love from a redirect to a trope that would cover unrequited love in general, and would act as a supertrope to the tropes currently listed on the Unrequited Love Tropes index
- If an Unrequited Love supertrope is made, move the index on Unrequited Love Tropes to that page under a list of subtropes, then redirect Unrequited Love Tropes to Unrequited Love
- If an Unrequited Love supertrope is made, merge All Love Is Unrequited with it
Bumping to raise awareness to this trope's wick cleaning project, as it's been almost 5 months.
Edited by JHD0919 on May 16th 2024 at 8:23:18 AM
I'm lovin' it. (My Troper Wall)This post from WarJay regarding wick cleanup in the Ship Sinking thread applies here as well.
Edit: Except that unlike with that thread, a description rewrite is needed here (for the Unrequited Love trope; Unrequited Love is still a redirect to Unrequited Love Tropes), though since All Love Is Unrequited is being merged with the new Unrequited Love trope once its page is up, maybe some of the former's description can be reused.
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 17th 2024 at 8:27:08 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Crown Description:
- All Love Is Unrequited is supposed to be a trope to cover stories in which the vast majority, if not all, of the characters who express romantic interest in another does not have those feelings reciprocated for one reason or another. In other words, it's a setting, plot, or worldbuilding trope, not a trope to describe a single character's feelings.
- However, the wick check shows that mostly people are using it to just mean "character experiences unrequited love." Of the 60 wicks checked, only 28% were correct. 53% were just describing a single person having feelings for another character (and many didn't even describe how the other character felt about them, effectively turning these examples into "this character has a crush") and 18% were ZCE or unclear potholes.
- On the one hand, the majority of wicks for this trope are on character pages when this isn't really a character trope, thus leading to the misuse. The wicks that were correct were exclusively those that weren't on character pages. This suggests that the trope itself might still be valid despite the misuse. However, even looking at the correct examples, the majority read no different from Love Dodecahedron and Love Triangle examples, to the point that I'm not so sure there is much of a difference. The 5 examples that maybe could stand on their own are those in which no one's love ever gets reciprocated. Once we start dealing with situations in which "most/the majority of characters feelings don't get reciprocated" however, you end up with examples that just outline the messy relationships characters' have, which is basically what Love Dodecahedron is.
- What should be done with All Love Is Unrequited?
To-do list:
Note: This thread was proposed by amathieu13.
All Love Is Unrequited is supposed to be a trope to cover stories in which the vast majority, if not all, of the characters who express romantic interest in another does not have those feelings reciprocated for one reason or another. In other words, it's a setting, plot, or worldbuilding trope, not a trope to describe a single character's feelings.
However, the wick check shows that mostly people are using it to just mean "character experiences unrequited love." Of the 60 wicks checked, only 28% were correct. 53% were just describing a single person having feelings for another character (and many didn't even describe how the other character felt about them, effectively turning these examples into "this character has a crush") and 18% were ZCE or unclear potholes.
On the one hand, the majority of wicks for this trope are on character pages when this isn't really a character trope, thus leading to the misuse. The wicks that were correct were exclusively those that weren't on character pages. This suggests that the trope itself might still be valid despite the misuse. However, even looking at the correct examples, the majority read no different from Love Dodecahedron and Love Triangle examples, to the point that I'm not so sure there is much of a difference. The 5 examples that maybe could stand on their own are those in which no one's love ever gets reciprocated. Once we start dealing with situations in which "most/the majority of characters feelings don't get reciprocated" however, you end up with examples that just outline the messy relationships characters' have, which is basically what Love Dodecahedron is.
Thoughts:
Wick check:
Trope: In a work, the vast majority of characters have feelings for others that isn't reciprocated.Wicks Checked: 60
Love Dodecahedron / Love Triangle?
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 16th 2023 at 1:14:13 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.