Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Kwak, Goldenbird Leader, Nora, Imposter, Jebus, Terrible Evil, Cell
Jogo
Cellbuuzer. Dropping this off a little early:
- A Villager's Night (link): Steve is is the one responsible for the attack on Hehr's village and far worse than his original counterpart. Launching an attack on Hehr's village, Steve maims a dozen villagers, slaughters several others, kills the Iron Golem and kidnaps the village's workers. Locking the kidnapped villagers in his dungeon, Steve forces them to make items for him in exchange for emeralds and kills a female Villager who fails to give him an item by bathing her in lava. When Larr rebels against Steve by destroying a lantern he had to make for him, Steve instead kills his brother Beehr out of spite by giving him a lava bath.
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Okay so I’m not too sure on this one but frankly? I wanna give it a chance.
What’s The Work?
Evelyn Evelyn is a dark cabaret tragic comedy album created by Amanda Palmer and Jason Webley in the 2000s. The album details the life of Evelyn Evelyn, two Conjoined Twins who face absolute hell through their childhood as they attempt to forge a music career.
Now, I already proposed Mrs. Bouldger and I was sure no one else counted, but frankly. I think there is one other person who may count. Taking them all the way to the beginning “The Tragic Events of September, Part 1”
Who is Dr. Charlie Von Kook? What Does He Do?
- Our first main threat in the twins lives, Dr. Kook is described as “ A local denture maker of dubious training with eccentric religious beliefs” who runs a poorly funded hospital in a trailer within the Kansas-Colardo border, and is the one who delivers The Evelyn Twins, a delivery which ends up killing the mother, Louisa Neville.
- However, when Dr. Kook sees that The Evelyn Twins, he immediately sees them as a creation against god and, without a second of hesitation, leaves the trailer and comes back with a chainsaw, attempting to rip the newborn twins in two while spouting “biblical quotations of doubtful accuracy.”
- Thankfully, before Dr. Kook can preform the deadly operation, Sheriff Wilbur Owens bursts in to see what’s happening, and proceeds to shoot Dr. Kook before he can bring the chainsaw down, killing both him as well as The Evelyn Twin’s father, Samuel, who is strucked with the chainsaw and killed instantly. But Dr. Kook’s actions end up with a profound effect, and ends up sending the Evelyn Twin’s down their rough childhood we see them as.
Mitigating Factors?
He’s a crazed and religious doctor who attempts to rip the Evelyn newborns’ open simply for being conjoined and out of crazed zealously. Nothing here.
Heinous Standard?
This is one he MAY stumble on, I must admit, since he only attempts two brutal kills by in large, but I think he might still have a chance to edge out. When it comes down to it, the only other heinous villain is Mrs. Bouldger, who is a massively resources and an international trafficking operation, which is leagues above Doctor Kook, who is a simple doctor in a trailer home, and all the other villains are pretty standard all things considered (The Ringleader’s are assholes and Alfred is non malicious and has moral agency issues to his neglect). Dr. Kook is shown to be a crazed fanatic who almost ripped two newborns apart with a chainsaw right after getting out of the womb, and his actions end up effecting the story as it leaves the Evelyn Twins orphaned and out in the world, where they end up being preyed on by opportunistic individuals, all tied back to The Doctor’s actions all those years ago.
Verdict?
I’m fine going either way, but I think it’s a conversation worth having. What do y’all think?
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
After watching the music video, gonna say no to the black puppet, too metaphorical TBH. The song lyrics are too much a part of the music video. Good try though. Also good song.
Edit: gonna have to think about Dr. Von Kook, is there a place I can watch this?
Edited by LarryT on May 1st 2024 at 6:35:01 AM
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Changing to a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for the Puppet with the above in mind. Good song though!
Kook
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll give a cautious yes to Kook. Please add him to the Pending.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
Abstain on Von Kook.
Watched Bad Batch finale, PM if curious.
As for The Grimm Variations, no one counts. Closest thing is Big Bad Wolf analogue from second episode, who is Serial Killer of women who tortures them to death. But he is part of a club which shares his apetites and Red Ridding hood analogues herself is serial killer and he kinda ends up not really standing out from pack. Another episode has crime syndicate which is sadi to be involved in Mass murder and Human Trafficking, but it is reduced to one off mention with them being generic bandits in the episode itself. Me and mir do have couple for other thread though.
Also mir and I will be spliting My Adventures with Superman Season 2 now that it confrimed to come out later this month.
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
The Draftsman of Doom
I may have found more NYPD Blue candidiates.
I'll be back with them later, hopefully.
Sure to Charlie.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I'll let you know.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 1st 2024 at 1:00:01 PM
Feels good, don't it?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So should we in fact create a page?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Draftsman of Doom
Question: Does endangering a crowd of 200 in a gangland shooting and killing a witness sound particularly heinous by NYPD Blue standards?
Feels good, don't it?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
- Does anyone die in the shooting? Because one murder sounds a bit tame compared to other candidates from this series
Edited by Bozzy on May 1st 2024 at 10:18:15 AM
pronounced 'Scraggle'
Could we get an EP?
Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'd say shooting indiscriminately into a crowd of hundreds is probably enough?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Draftsman of Doom
1 Killed out of 200 by the one shooter, plus 7 wounded by gsw, 3 by crowd trampling.
Sure I can work on an EP.
I can try for later this afternoon.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 1st 2024 at 1:57:44 PM
Feels good, don't it?
for Cellbuuzer and Dr. von Kook.
Dagded Dujardin
Cellbuuzer and Von Kook
Also gotta check the total s vs s count with Otto
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Someone wanna count Doc Ock's votes? The EP is now under 2k FWIW.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Larry has already checked. 3 votes against and many votes for. He's approved.
Dagded Dujardin
Okay so it seems Otto had 22 positive votes and 4 negatives. So, I guess he goes through.
- Unicorn Wars: Colonel Otto is the supreme commander of the bear military and the main perpetrator of the violent war between bears and unicorns. Seeking to expand his rule through the forest by wiping out the unicorns. Viewing other bears as beneath him, Otto trains the soldiers under his rule to become violent and ruthless, treating any kindness or companionship as useless, treating any freak injuries as acceptable "collateral damge" and sending out those who are deemed too weak to die in pointless missions in enemy territory in addition to keeping his troops in miserable conditions while he and his inner circle enjoy a life of luxury. Promoting Bluey into the figurehead of the army when he survives his squadron's near-complete wipeout for the sake of propaganda, Otto spurs his worst tendencies and only opposes Bluey's final plan to burn down the forest in its entirety because it would deprive him of the war which to control the bear populace with.
The Draftsman of Doom
What is the work?
NYPD Blue is a Cop Show starring Dennis Franz."The Backboard Jungle" is the 10th episode of the 3rd season. When community basketball game ends with a gangland shooting, Sipowicz struggles with his own prejudice.
One of the shooters turns out to be a well known gangster.
Who is Charlton Moody and what has he done?
Charlton Moody is the cocky gang rival to Petey Green, having hijacked a community basketball game in memory of Jimmy Leggett alongside Green to bet against Petey's team.
When Green associate "Bo-Bo" Thomas shoots Moody's bodyguard Eddie Holloway at said basketball game, Charlton shoots former Green associate Lorenzo Gaines in front of his own child, subsequently engaging in a firefight between his own associates and Green's associates, uncaring that he is within range of approximately 200 people in attendance, injuring 7 others by gunshot and resulting in 3 people suffering crowd crush.
After Detective Andy Sipowicz and witness/community activist Kwasi Oloshula get at each other's throats due to their respective biases, Lt. Fancy convinces Kwasi to recount his testimony against Charlton and Bo-Bo.
After being confronted by Detectives Simone and Sipowicz, and being identified by one of the witnesses in a lineup, Charlton has journalist and witness Dave Bloom assassinated.
Heinousness?
I mean, Charlton may not have the highest body count per se, but he does willingly endanger a large crowd as part of a gang war, which even if he doesn't go out of his way to target civilians, he is more than laissez faire about any collateral damage.
Additionally, Charlton is indicated to regularly target any witnesses against him, with reporter Dave Bloom being his onscreen target, and the episode dialogue indicating that silencing witnesses is a regular occurrence at his hands.
I suppose mass endangerment by gang violence may be worthy of discussion, even next to multiple serial killers (including one who targets couples, one who brutally stabs women, and one who strangles and rapes women) or a spree shooter.
Mitigating Factors?
Charlton may not have started the shootout, but he kept it going, and given his decision to target at least one witness to his actions, it's unlikely he cared about hurting civilians.
That said, while I presume that Moody continuing the firefight was anything other than an attempt at defending his own honour and possibly saving his own skin, he is confronted at Grace Funeral Home while shopping for coffins (possibly either for his bodyguard or his victim, he only says "not my own"). While watching the episode, he didn't specify who the coffin was for. However, based on his response when confronted in the funeral home, whereby he only comments that the funeral he is planning is "not my own", if the coffin is for his bodyguard, the fact that he casually picks out a coffin, and that his lawyer brushes off the death of the bodyguard on his behalf indicates he may not be too shaken up by the loss.
As for personality, in his few scenes, Charlton comes off as cocky and full of himself, motivated by power.
Verdict?
Worthy of discussion.Edited by SkyCat32 on May 1st 2024 at 3:54:19 PM
Feels good, don't it?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
See, normally I'd say yes, but I'm a bit hesitant considering he apparently didn't start the shootout.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yee to Cellbuuzer from Dragon Ball As Eff.