The General Star Wars Thread

Lost Stars did that too. Several of the main cast were either on the Death Star at one point or part of the Death Star crew. There were all sorts of non-military people on board, staffers for places like cafes or bars, service workers, etc, who just worked at the space station. Not to mention a lot of the military personnel either weren’t aware of what the station was meant for or were aware but believed that it was never intended to be used.

However, Lost Stars also makes it clear that once Alderaan went up, it was basically impossible for anyone aboard to be unaware of what what the Death Star really was and what it was intended for. Whether they could get away at that point, however…

I’m sure plenty of space-resumes had a certain part of their Career History crossed out.

Reminds me of Danger Death Ray: “Designed for peaceful purposes!”

Not that he was aware of the timing of Luke’s attack. He was just in a full-blown guilty breakdown, unwilling to kill another planet but knowing if he refused orders he’d just get shot and someone else would pull the lever. So, “stand by. Stand by…”

This is a big part of Ciena's rationalization for staying with the Empire even after Alderaan. To her the destruction of Alderaan and the Death Star proved that both the Empire and Alliance are mass murderers, but one at least wants to keep people safe while the other is sowing chaos everywhere.

The fact that her best friend Jude Edivon, who was about as close to Incorruptible Pure Pureness as an Imperial can get, went down with the station didn't help either.

Oh god, she's a centrist.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on May 11th 2024 at 5:31:44 PM

It's a product of her culture; her whole planet is Honor Before Reason personified and she bases her entire worldview on that for most of the book.

Yeah, her real motives are entirely personal - avenging Jude and the fact that her culture considers breaking a promise to be an unforgivable sin.

It's just that she doesn't want to admit this, to her friends or herself, so she comes up with elaborate philosophical loopholes as to why the Empire was right and it's just so interesting go read Lost Stars right now.

Nah, she has yet to talk about the benefits of slavery.

Well you could argue she has a point (esspecaly with what we see in Andor), she just got which side is which on motives and goals field completely backwards.

Ciena basically really, really doesn't want to admit she's one of the baddies.

Contrast with Thane who realized it fairly quickly, quit in disgust, and then joined the Rebellion despite not yet thinking the Rebels were good guys because he couldn't just sit back while the Empire's atrocities continued.

It's funny because like Ciena justifies the Death Star as a needed to bring peace with the logic of the Tarkin doctrine but admits it falls apart when it's used to blow up Alderaan.

And there's a difference between blowing up the Death Star, and blowing up Alderaan. Sure Luke has blood on his hands, but I'd argue destroying the Death Star overshadows that.

The Death Star Novel has a great rebuttal for people who equate Alderaan and the Death Star's destruction:

"We live on a battle station called the Death Star, Teela. It's already killed billions of people, and you know it can and will do worse. Anybody who tries to stand against the Empire will feel its teeth. There's no limit to how many this abomination could slaughter."

"But-all the people on board-"

"Don't begin to approach the numbers who were on Alderaan.Go, Teela. Get off while you can. You don't want to be a part of this any further."

Her emotions warred with themselves. All her work. All the dead of Despayre and Alderaan, and all those who might yet die. All her friends and colleagues. Civilians. Prisoners. A thousand worlds within easy reach of the Death Star.

He was right.

Edited by burninganimefan357 on May 12th 2024 at 4:41:05 AM

With the destruction of The Death Star it's worth noting that it's generally considered acceptable in warfare to cause incidental collateral damage if it's necessary to destroy a target of proportional military significance.

The Death Star's destruction would be a textbook case of this: It's absolutely a valid target of extreme significance.

An episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine discussed it directly, if you avoid attacking military targets because of possible civilian casualties then the military targets will find ways to either post civilians there or set up shop next to it. "None of you belonged on Bajor, it wasn't your world."

In modern naval warfare, ships usually have a portion of their crew that function in support roles, like cooks or janitors. But when the shooting starts, they're still considered valid targets.

If you're making a living on board a weapon of mass destruction, you're taking on certain risks.

I'm reminded of that scene from Clerks that took apart the idea that Luke was at fault for destroying the Death Star. I'll post it again for reference.

Edited by M84 on May 12th 2024 at 9:43:00 PM

Palpatine would be the type to post widows and orphans in the Death Star 2 if he had the time.

Palpatine: They won't attack us if we use children as shields.

Lost Stars is fun because it’s plot is basically a character study in how much corruption one is willing to accept around them before it becomes too much.

Every character in Lost Stars starts out just as believing in the Empire, albeit all for different reasons, and then slowly as the Empire reveals how horrible it is they each one by one comes to the crossroad where they realize they have to jump ship and change their way of thinking in the face of it.

Even Ciena is really only still with the Empire at the end because she sees no way out. Her only real contribution to the Battle of Jakku is to basically try to have her Star Destroyer crash and take herself down with it.

And then there’s the one who comes to the same crossroads, but goes the opposite way, being so destroyed by the guilt that he sees no way to cope with it beyond accepting all the Empire’s propaganda that tells him he wasn’t at fault.

Bonus points since that last one is an Alderaanian. He goes full black shirt to cope with the Empire blowing up his own homeworld.

And then there's poor Jude, who dithered on making a choice and was on the Death Star when it blew up as a result.

Edited by M84 on May 12th 2024 at 11:16:40 PM

Like I said, Jude is probably the most completely-good Imperial in either canon. Her death kriffs Ciena up something fierce.

Yes, you hit exactly why I love Lost Stars. It's such a delightful tragedy of people who are faced with evil, and make different choices to cope.

One accepts the evil in the Empire, abandons it to find hope with the Rebels, one refuses to accept the evil and degenerates into insanity, and one accepts the evil, and remains with the Empire out of misguided morality.

Loyalty is a virtue, but only if it's two way.

Jude's thing was that she really thought the Empire was a force of law and order, and she validated herself by being a part of that.

So when Alderaan was blown up, she resorted to feeble rationalization instead of admitting she's one of the baddies.

Sadly for her, the inability to admit this and jump ship asap meant she was stuck on the Death Star when it blew up.

There was also Nash Windrider and how he became more fanatical to cope with the Empire blowing up his homeworld.

Yup he’s the one who goes full blackshirt to avoid feeling bad for serving the Empire that blew up his world.

Nash even stated he was in full support of the Death Star 2 and would HAPPILY use it to blow up multiple planets himself IIRC.

Dude went from going to denial that the Empire is evil to embracing it to cope. It's a fascinating descent into madness.