Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to the Overlord and...I think Kako.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Fic!Overlord
Ultimate Moral Compass
“God”
Writeup for Glot.
- One Hundred Years Ahead: Glot is the power-hungry leader of the space Pirate Alliance. His previous attempt to take over the Star Federation having been thwarted, Glot seizes the chance for revenge once he senses that the cosmion, the time-travel substance that he has lost, has appeared in the year 2124 again. Thrown into the past in his hunt for cosmion, Glot uses his hypnotic powers to sabotage Earth's first contact with the Star Federation and establishes a Bad Future in which he rules over Earth, now a pirates' base where people get a choice between working like slaves to produce new weapons or getting killed. With his mind-control abilities, Glot makes Alice slowly and tortuously choke Kolya, whom Alice loves, to obtain the cosmion now hosted in Kolya's body. Glot just as coldheartedly gets his own right-hand man killed once he no longer needs him and tries to murder Kolya's Innocent Bystander friends and Alice's parents purely for getting in his way. Devoid of all the humanizing qualities of his book counterpart, Glot cares for nothing except his own ambitions.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Kordon, the Overlord, and "God".
Fernando David Páez Contreras
To Fic!Overlord and Kim Kardashian… a sentence I never thought I’d say.
By the way, who’s in charge of the write-ups?
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
whoever does the EP writes them up.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yes
Edited by LarryT on May 9th 2024 at 8:09:23 AM
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Fernando David Páez Contreras
Wait… you mean I can do a write-up? 🤩
Got another Resident Evil candidate.
Resident Evil: The Final Chapter is the Grand Finale of the film series that tries to wrap everything up and adds several references to the past installment. It didn't do a good job, having gained infamy for its unnecessary Retcons to the film series lore, lackluster fight scenes and severely undercutting characters from the games.
The plot is as follows: after Albert Wesker, the high-rank Umbrella executive, the Big Bad of Afterlife and the alleged Big Good of Retribution, had a team rescue Alice from Umbrella Prime and bring her to the White House to assist the remnants of US military in Retribution, he proceeded to backstab all of them and caused the White House's destruction, with only Alice herself being the only apparent survivor besides himself. Now, Alice has to ally with Red Queen, who previously seemingly tried to kill her in Retribution, to reach the ground zero of the infection, stop Wesker and spread the anti-virus
Now, I'm not going to talk much about the film itself, but rather the novelization written by Tim Waggoner. Besides briding the events between Retribution and what happens in this film, the novel tries its best to explain many plot holes and flesh out many characters, both old and new alike.
And Wesker is one of them.
Who is Albert Wesker?
Albert Wesker is introduced in this novel as the right hand man of Dr. Alexander Isaacs. His very first action on-page is to murder Isaacs' kindhearted colleague Dr. James Marcus by suffocating him with a plastic bag upon Isaacs' silent order, afterwards assisting his boss in an insane plan of spreading the T-Virus worldwide and ensuring that the humanity falls to the undead, all so Umbrella could rebuild the world In Their Own Image.
Shortly after the end of Retribution, Wesker had Alice and her allies (Ada Wong, Leon Kennedy and Jill Valentine) repel an attack from the zombies atop the White House, only to be confronted by an aircraft lead not by Red Queen, as Wesker told Alice earlier, but by a Research and Development specialist named Dania Cardoza. It turns out that the whole "humanity's last stand" was all a ploy by Wesker to get rid of his competitor and maintain his position at the Umbrella; and all the zombies attacking the White House have the scarab devices controlling them by Umbrella. Refusing to stay down when Dania offers him and his followers a chance to leave, Wesker has Alice try and use her powers to take down the VTOL, quite a painful process as described in the novel itself.
Dania then has the zombies amass into a giant Blob Monster called Melange, which proceeds to devour and kill countless soldiers on the battlefield, both in tanks and helicopters alike. After both Leon and Ada are consumed by the monster, with Wesker not even lifting a finger to save them, Alice finally brings the VTOL down right on Melange and sets it on fire with her psionic powers. But then Alice's T-Virus infused abilities disperse; it turns out that Wesker gave her a specific stamm which would automatically "cure" her of special abilities when she expended them in the open. Enraged, Alice tries to attack Wesker only to get beaten up by him badly. When Jill tries to intervene, Wesker stabs her through the eye with an infected tendril of his, then merrily reveals that he used Alice for his own deeds. Knowing that Melange is living on borrowed time due to sustained injuries, Wesker attempts to feed Alice to the monster by dragging her closer by her hands, taking his time gloating over her. Alice only survives when the reanimated, but still conscious Jill takes the bullet for her while Wesker escapes back to the Hive, with the White House defence falling completely and humanity's numbers dwindling down to just about 4400 people worldwide.
Back at the Hive, Wesker soon learns of Alice's survival and her mission to head towards the Hive, much to his chagrin. Then it's revealed that the Dania killed during the White House siege was a clone, with the real one sneaking up on him from behind and blasting his head apart with the supersonic weapon. This fails to kill him as Wesker managed to spread the T-Virus through his entire body, something he "explains" to the horrified Dania before biting her head off with his Belly Mouth and devouring her as whole before regenerating his head anew.
When Alice and her teammates start infiltrating the Hive, Wesker takes full control of the Hive defence system from Red Queen, whom he deemed to be a bit untrustworthy. Wesker then starts picking the group one by one: killing the first two with infected dogs, turning on the giant fan to shred another to pieces and then using the convoluted air vent passageway system to separate the group and get two more killed. Angry upon the survivors getting past the defences, Wesker wakes up the real Dr. Isaacs before taking another group member, Claire Redfield, hostage when she breaks out from the tube she got trapped in.
Dr. Isaacs reveals to Alice that she is a clone and brings the original template of hers, Alicia Marcus, who then proceeds to fire Wesker from his position, seeing as she is a shareholder just like Isaacs himself. This causes Red Queen to crush Wesker's leg with a steel door... and unlike the film, where there is no given justification as of why does Wesker refrain from using his powers to recover from such mundane injury, the novel has Alicia explain that Wesker's struggle with his T-Virus mutation is now working against him when he is incapaciated like this, meaning that bleeding out from the injury is one of the few ways capable of truly killing him.
After Isaacs abandons his allies and retreats, Wesker begs Alicia for help, only for the latter to shoot him down verbally. Alicia then points out that Wesker is just trying to lure her into a trap so he could consume her and recover from the wound. Eventually, Wesker bleeds out and starts melting, and since Alice placed the bomb detonator in his hand, it falls out and releases the trigger, thus both Alicia and the Hive go down with him in a fiery explosion as the antivirus is finally released into the atmosphere.
... Except that the epilogue states that cells of Wesker's blood managed to survive both the explosion and the antivirus in the Earth's fissure miles beneath the Hive, opting to wait out until the antivirus is gone and the T-Virus can make its way to the surface again, where the fun would really begin.
Redeeming Qualities?
Nothing really; he is just a slimy backstabbing bastard who only seeks his own goals. While he does proclaim loyalty to Isaacs, it's solely for his own gain, and while it he does show admiration towards Alice herself, the narrative explicitly points out that he just views her as dangerous prey for the predator like himself, so it's not much redeeming.
Heinous Standard?
So, along with all the stuff he did in the past films, we have some newer additions which show just how petty Wesker is. He gathers a lot of humans at the White House, then leaves them to die to Dania's controlled creatures. Wesker does not show any concern for Leon or his former employee Ada, tries to cause a slow painful death to Alice out of spite and even outright kills Jill herself when she tries to stop him. Later on, he uses his T-Virus powers to devour his rival, then activates the defence mechanisms of the Hive to get rid of Alice's companions, expressing glee at their horrific deaths.
And that's not to speak of his earlier crimes, such as killing Dr. James Marcus and being fully on board with Isaacs' goal to "cleanse" the world.
Verdict?
Sounds like a keeper to me.
Edited by DukeNukem4ever on May 9th 2024 at 8:23:52 AM
Not the Eye
The Draftsman of Doom
Yea to Wesker.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
for Kordon, "God", The Overlord, and Albert Wesker.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Wesker.
I think with this and the script, I'll create a second folder for "related works".
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Jogo
Wesker
Albert Wesker
Yes to Wesker and Overlord.
Wesker and Overlord
Yes to Wesker and now for a re-evaluation of the villain of Devil May Cry. This EP was a joint effort between myself and Crow and if approved he'll be handling the writeup. I'm sure we all know who I'm talking about so. Here. We. Go!
Who is Mundus? What has he done?
The Prince of Darkness himself, born in the Underworld 2,000 years ago, Mundus was a power-hungry demon with eyes on ruling the realm. To challenge the current Demon King, he consumed the powerful Qliphoth fruit, killing the King and raising an army to conquer the Underworld. Challenged by fellow demon Argosax, the two engaged in a massive war that divided the Underworld in two, during which Mundus' avarice led to him trying to attack and conquer earth as well. Fortunately for mankind, he was betrayed by his own general—and father of Dante and Vergil—Sparda, who defeated Mundus to seal the Underworld and the evil Demon King off from the Human World. For a means of vengeance against Sparda, he sends his demons to assassinate Sparda's wife Eva and their children. Dante and Vergil survive, Eva doesn't.
When Vergil goes to confront him, Mundus defeats and corrupts the son of Sparda, with Dante believing his brother is dead. The manga Visions of V reveals he was tortured brutally by the Demon King, who kept him impaled with spikes while mockingly stating how weak he was for being a product of the "traitor" Sparda sullying demon blood with the womb of a human woman. When Vergil refuses to relent, Mundus uses his powers to destroy his very sense of being, erasing all ego and memories, making him into his personal attack dog "Nelo Angelo", which can do nothing but obey his orders and promptly sends him to slay Dante.
To lure Dante to Mallet Island where he intends to conduct his ritual to once again attempt to destroy the Human World, he creates the demon Trish in the guise of Eva to act as a seeming ally and guide to Dante. On Mallet, he also takes the time to show just how much of a Bad Boss he is and when one servant is defeated and begs to be empowered to continue fighting Dante, Mundus cackles as he torturously zaps the loyal demon to death, deeming him a failure. The whole while, he has the corrupted Nelo stationed to keep attacking and trying to kill Dante, wreathing him in flames when he's defeated by Dante for the last time.
After his servant the Nightmare is defeated and Trish is exposed as his underling, Mundus deems her a failure and decides to use Dante's compassion to take her as a hostage, torturing her when Dante comes to confront him. Breaking out of the statue he's encased in, he does battle with the half-demon hero and after seemingly killing Trish, Dante is able to revive her with his own powers and the two combine their abilities to defeat the Demon King, who promises to return to ravage the Human World as he's sealed once more.
Although Vergil lives and other villains have taken up the stage since the first game, with Mundus as the ruler of the Underworld playing the role of Greater-Scope Villain now, his cruelty isn't forgotten. The tie-in light novel of Devil May Cry 2 revolves around the Beastheads, a demonic artifact said to have been crafted by Mundus, it is smuggled into the Human World and corrupts thousands of humans over the centuries. More importantly, the novel also shows an alternate reality where Mundus squashed any rebellion against him by killing Sparda and Vergil.
With no real opposition stopping him from taking over, the Human World is practically terraformed into a second Underworld, leaving it "corrupted beyond recognition", and demonkind engulfed in yet another civil war, with Mundus having Trish massacre the freedom fighters trying to challenge his rule. Visions of V also explores the torment imprinted upon "V", Vergil's human half, who has to relive the torture he was put through in his own efforts to stop his escaped demon half.
Heinousness?
The franchise is dark, sure, with the likes of Arkham and Sanctus being our current keepers due to a mix of world-threatening plots, mass murder and personal cruelty and they've been the major points of contention when Mundus has come up in the past.
My issue here is Mundus' previous war was written off as Offstage Villainy but we wouldn't dock points if a Serial Killer attempted a murder on screen and we were told they had a slew of victims prior. Mundus drives the whole plot of the first game trying to carve a path to the Human World so he can violently conquer it because he wants more for himself. It's not even the first time he attempted such a campaign and his war with Argosax was clearly a bloody affair in which he again tried to invade earth to claim more of existence as his own.
And with the tie-in novel in mind? That's not really a problem anymore, Dante sees glimpses of a young Mundus leading his troops and we’re shown what would have happened if Mundus had defeated Sparda. The current two in the same continuity are fine to keep but Mundus is a nasty Big Bad/Greater-Scope Villain affecting much of the franchise plot and Visions of V does plenty to show the damage caused by his attacks.
Additionally, like the two above villains, he does get quite personal: he's responsible for killing Eva in petty fury, corrupting Vergil to be used as a weapon against his own brother and regularly tortures his own minions, as seen with the defeated Gryphon boss, Vergil himself when he's seemingly killed by Dante and Trish as well, before facing Dante down.
Mitigating factors?
The only time Mundus ever shows a measure of restraint is when V learns the Nightmare, a monster from the first game, had to be remodeled after it proved too powerful and threatened Mundus himself, who of course, simply refashioned it into a beast without freewill. Otherwise he's a horrific boss, power-hungry monster who makes multiple attempts to wipe out the world with petty flairs. Not a good bone in his body!
Verdict?
Long-awaited, happy yes.
Mundus, Wesker
Gentle Laborer
A very, very happy to one of my favorite villains in video game history, the King of the Underworld himself!
Yes, they are explictly canon and the games acknowledge the literary works.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on May 9th 2024 at 3:22:25 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm thinking yes, but are we sure Visions of V and the Light Novel are canon?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ultimate Moral Compass
Wesker and Mundus (Capcom villains getting some love today)
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
In that case, yes. And like was said, the other two can stay (seems like they have fewer resoures).
Time for a page? The Warden makes 7, and Mundus makes 8.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
Overlord
In honor of Akira Toriyama