Super Smash Bros.

Cutting echo fighters is pretty much pointless. They're in the game because they were far easier to add than a unique fighter. You could cut all of them and probably wouldn't spare enough dev time for a single new fighter.

Now what would be nice is some clear and consistent categorization. Because right now there's a lot of overlap between clones, echoes, and skins, making which one they are feel pretty arbitrary. Why is Daisy, playing identically to Peach, an Echo fighter, but Alph is only a skin of Olimar?

Promoting Alph to Echo Fighter and giving him Rock Pikmin over Purple Pikmin would be nice.

Also give him and Olimar voice clips already, Olimar's deep baritone is funny.

Doc should have been an alt costume and Alph promoted to echo. I mean, we are on Pikmin 4 and still only 1 representative?

The next Smash game should cut every single character and return rejuw...

Every Nintendo franchise should come back with...2 fighters each.

Mario gets 4, Pokemon gets 3, everyone else gets 2.

I'm aware that echo fighters are easier to make than full characters. I still don't want them back. Straight up, if you asked me if I'd rather have 20 new echo fighters versus 1 unique new character, I'd take the 1 newbie, no hesitation.

Eh, I'm the opposite. I'll gladly take 20 echoes over 1 unique character as I like playing as different characters over a moveset. If they sold an echo pass, I would have taken it.

Well, the choice would be more accurately 20 echo fighters or nothing at all.

I don’t think echo fighters are hurting anything either. I’ll gladly welcome more in a future Smash game.

Then I'll take the nothing at all

i'm asking this genuinely, do you like have a problem with reskins?

Echoes are the exact same character, with slight changes that may or may not make the character a slight bit different.

as an example, Lucina is an EF of Marth, but she has different properties like not using tipper as a mechanic, Chrom is an EF of Roy, but he has an entirely different Up-B and Final Smash.

like do you just not want variety while playing the character you're ultimately (no pun intended) used to?

edit: grammar error

edit 2: OH MY GOD I FORGOT HE WASN'T CLASSIFIED AS THAT FUCK (post fixed with new example whooopsssss)

Edited by Eisner on May 7th 2024 at 3:00:00 AM

Dr.mario is not an echo fighter of Mario a proper echo would be like peach to daisy.

Honestly I see echo fighters as a way to get some extra characters you might not have realized you even wanted into the roster. I practically jumped out of my seat in excitement when Daisy was confirmed and I didn’t even care that she was an echo.

If you don’t like them, then fine, more power to you, but treating them like they’re taking something away from the game just by existing feels like a short-sighted take IMO.

Edited by kablammin45 on May 7th 2024 at 3:04:56 AM

To be honest...

They should just be on the same slot on the CSS as the original character regardless of the differences, since it would make the screen so much smaller.

The size of Ultimate's character screen is...not good.

There's a setting for that, actually! If you stack the Echoes it makes the character select screen into a perfect rectangle (assuming you have every DLC character).

Edited by NesClassic on May 7th 2024 at 6:36:20 AM

I meant to begin with...

It doesn't really fix the way the game handles..."Start" covering the roster itself, which means you can't see the middle rows if you want to change characters for CPUs.

Echoes are good at getting characters a better chance of being added than a year of work for an unique newcomer. Movesets are nice but I like the character more. And Chrom showed echoes can be tweaked.

Yeah, I'm also in favor of Echoes.

Why didn't we get any Echoes DLC? The made this new term for characters that copies another's moveset that went well, but didn't think to make some Echo Fighter DLC?

Probably because they thought Echo fighters wouldn't sell; remember, Sakurai explicitly stated Nintendo corporate was more in charge of the Fighter Passes than he is.

...they gave him a list of characters to choose from.

Why are people still bringing up that fabricated Common Knowledge? There is no list. The confirmed process is that the powers-that-be decide which companies/brand will get DLC and it's up to him if he can realize the choice.

Funny enough, this one article talking about "Sakurai chooses a list" links to... an article that doesn't mention a list.

Anyway as per God Never Said That entry:

When Sakurai said that the DLC characters were chosen by Nintendo and he decides if they can create a fighter based on them, people interpreted it that Nintendo gave Sakurai a list of characters to choose from. However, the wording didn't suggest that, and he later said that the characters were not decided by him.

Edited by Ookamikun on May 7th 2024 at 11:02:57 AM

"When you're unable to accept the reality that lies before your eyes, you make your own"

That's why people still insist that the "common knowledge" is true, and the (contextually unrelated) remarks about Sakurai being a fan of Persona 5 and Fatal Fury further fueled the crackpottery about Joker and Terry respectively being Sakurai's personal choices despite that not being the case at all. Hell, many still believe that the character choices were either improvised or decided over time even though they were decided since before Ultimate was even out. The only exception (and this is one Sakurai himself confirmed) was Sora, because the second Fighters' Pass was going to have only 5 characters like the first, but Sora was added as the sixth before the end of 2019 because of that lucky meeting with a Disney employee which catalyzed the negotiations for his inclusion.

Edited by MyFinalEdits on May 7th 2024 at 2:14:52 PM

Yeah, it's rejecting reality despite Sakurai's insistence many times. And then there's the whole "Sakurai pick" vs. "corporate pick".

I also don't like echoes. If a character can't have a full, unique moveset for whatever reason, they're better off as assist trophies (which is nothing to be ashamed of) or alts. Or waiting until Sakurai has the time and resources to make them original in a future game.

Y'all know Dixie Kong is my most wanted newcomer, but if my choices are to get her as an echo of Diddy or to get nothing, I'll take nothing.

There are characters I don't personally like and then there's chaff that actively makes the roster worse, like Dark Pit.

I always find it funny when people in the smash fanbase try to prioritize gameplay functionality over the characters themselves as if Marvel vs Capcom Infinite didn’t try that as an explanation for why popular characters didn’t return and that just led to them getting mocked for missing the point of a crossover game